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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2739944 - 05/28/04 01:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So this "perspective" is...
1.  Personal
2.  Empowering (but only on a personal level)

Okay,  I have some follow up questions:
A) Is this "God" separate from your Self?
B) If yes to A, do you see this "God" as being internal or external?

(please answer succintly and don't dance about with phrases like "all is God" or "all is one")

P.S. I'm not trying to prove of disprove anything... I'm just probing your human brain.... *evil laugh*  :sinister:


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2740016 - 05/28/04 02:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
The point so to speak is an eternal moment of burning compassion. The final return to the Beloved. If I were to experience right now what I shall experience after death, I would explode as the physical human heart can only withstand a limited amount of the remembrance of God. My only bodily reaction to the remembrance of the Beloved is to cry without control.



You see... suppose you're right on this one. How did you come into this wealth of knowledge concerning the "remembrance of God" or the "final return to the Beloved" or the afterlife? Did someone skirt God's powerful eye and somehow break out of heaven and tell somebody? Why would they want to leave bliss for even a second? Also, how would they be able to talk about it through all the uncontrollable crying?

And let's say God somehow allowed someone to know about the afterlife and whatnot... does this not bypass his demand that we have faith in his word alone? And what are we REALLY talking about when we speak of "God's Word"? It's really just a bunch of hearsay ala a bunch of priests. Has God ever come to you and said "Hey, Zahid, guess what I've planned for you in the afterlife - a bunch of bliss, dude! It's gonna be so sweet... but remember, you don't win the trip to heaven if you break my rules so be cool and stay in school...."

If God wouldn't find that humorous... then fuck him... I'm holding out for the good-humored God.


--------------------
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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740031 - 05/28/04 02:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm holding out for the good-humored God.

As do I, but as evidenced elsewhere, humor and spirituality appear to (some to) be mutually exclusive.

Who the hell invented humor anyway if not The Creator?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Swami]
    #2740035 - 05/28/04 02:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

man?


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2740052 - 05/28/04 02:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh sure... man can create something as divine as humor.... but he can't create God...


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740053 - 05/28/04 02:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No heaven, no hell, no creation. Wadud-e-Mehboob (True Love in Everything), there is only God, the Beloved. To obtain the secrets of reality one must have gnosis of God (ma'rifahallah), and this knowledge sets the lovers of God free.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2740069 - 05/28/04 02:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

But what are they free FROM?


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740077 - 05/28/04 02:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

man?


.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740081 - 05/28/04 02:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Sclorch said:
So this "perspective" is...
1.  Personal
2.  Empowering (but only on a personal level)

Okay,  I have some follow up questions:
A) Is this "God" separate from your Self?
B) If yes to A, do you see this "God" as being internal or external?

(please answer succintly and don't dance about with phrases like "all is God" or "all is one")

P.S. I'm not trying to prove of disprove anything... I'm just probing your human brain.... *evil laugh*  :sinister:




I know.  I hate that too, when people give generalized answers like that.  But that's what's in them, at the moment.

B) If yes to A, do you see this "God" as being internal or external?

I see God as being external to me. 

God is external, but God is, imo, made of the same substance of which our spirits are made.  So even though God is separate and distinct, we are made of the same substance, but just transformed into physical bodies.


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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740083 - 05/28/04 02:18 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Freedom from the rules they apply to others?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Swami]
    #2740103 - 05/28/04 02:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Freedom from the rules they apply to others?




Oooo... good call.


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740108 - 05/28/04 02:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Free from Disorder, chaos, chattering minds, desire. To be free in what they believe.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740116 - 05/28/04 02:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

But what are they free FROM?




Physical matter.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2740149 - 05/28/04 02:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

So what you're telling me is that gnosis and seeking it are completely useless to me in life, right?

If not, let me know when you've become enlightened so I can borrow a few pounds of flesh. Mmkay?


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740161 - 05/28/04 02:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not telling you anything. I don't know where you got that idea from.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2740197 - 05/28/04 02:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, physical matter plays a significant role in life. Every time you breathe in oxygen molecules and take a sip of water, your physical matter interacts with other physical matter. If gnosis frees one from physical matter, that must mean that you're dead. If you're dead, you're not living and it's true - you no longer need physical matter. So, if all gnosis has to offer is "freedom from physical matter," then it's pretty damn useless to me in life.

So about that flesh....


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2740218 - 05/28/04 03:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Gnosis is knowledge of God, to experience one's self as consciousness; to discorporate into metaphysics. It sets lovers free from physical matter. The offer is in God, the Beloved.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2752402 - 06/01/04 10:09 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

its good to have (to an extent) a naive view of life as there will be more possibilites open to you, otherwise your thrown into paranoia and very untrusting.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Posts: 4,805
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Chronic7]
    #2752993 - 06/01/04 02:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
its good to have (to an extent) a naive view of life as there will be more possibilites open to you, otherwise your thrown into paranoia and very untrusting.



That's just in the beginning... I got over it. Acid helped.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Chronic7]
    #2754903 - 06/01/04 11:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

chronic777 said:
its good to have (to an extent) a naive view of life as there will be more possibilites open to you, otherwise your thrown into paranoia and very untrusting.




I admit I'm naive.  I would rather be naive than paranoid.  However, the constant surprise that peolpe can do some pretty fucked up things gets a little old. 

And did you know that my criminal clients are never guilty?  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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