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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: kaiowas]
    #2730712 - 05/26/04 09:30 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I agree. However, there are many people who act as if there is stress to living. I'm now trying to figure out the difference as to why some of us have stress, and some of us don't.

Obviously, after several responses, I have learned that it doesn't have to do with being a believer that one's stress in life is reduced. So I'm grying to figure this out. It's a ... what's it called??? Like a wild card or something.

I have been thinking that all people are stressed or anxious, unless they have a belief in something. Now I have learned that people who don't beleive in anything are also not stressed or anxious, based on things they have experienced in life. Why?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2730862 - 05/26/04 10:21 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"why some of us have stress, and some of us don't."
We all have stress, just some more then others. As far as WHY? it is all a personal thing, because even though stress is exerted by things 'outward' such as the enviroment and people around us, we have the ability to control our own 'inner' level of stress and become hardened to outward influence of negativity... Some find, with their 'beliefs', it is easy to cope with outward stress... and yet others because of their innard stress can not cope with the outer reality, becomes a bad cycle if you let it... I pretty much vary on that scale and my stress level changes from one minute to the next.

If believeng in something lessens my inner or outer stress, why not do it?


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OfflineRenegade8
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Registered: 10/11/03
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2731634 - 05/26/04 06:53 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I think Kaiowas gave you the answer you're looking for with his last post: "..only when we try to impose our will on external reality does stress really occur." It doesn't matter if one believes in a higher power or not, it's whether they try to control reality or just experience it for what it is.

Gotta go into a meeting now, but I'll try later to answer your question about how it happened for me.


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Renegade8]
    #2732599 - 05/26/04 11:07 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Good points, 2Experimental and Renegade.  It's not our beliefs in God or whatever that reduced the stress and anxiety.  It's our reaction to it.  We can't impose our will on external reality.  We have to just accept it.  Good point that kaiowas made, too.

So, it all really has nothing to do with God.  It all has to do with our outlook on life.  This seems so "duh" but I hadn't thought about it this way. 

Renegade, what is up with that avatar?  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineRenegade8
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2732876 - 05/27/04 12:03 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Frog said:
Renegade, what is up with that avatar?  :grin:




Was wondering when you were gonna ask that.  It's from Chappelle's Show, but you don't watch TV...and you're too fucking old for that show anyway. :tongue:


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2732957 - 05/27/04 12:18 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Frog: Out of curiousity, Sclorch and Renegade, what caused you to be able to let go of the stress of living that most people seem to experience?
...
Frog: Good points, 2Experimental and Renegade. It's not our beliefs in God or whatever that reduced the stress and anxiety. It's our reaction to it. We can't impose our will on external reality. We have to just accept it. Good point that kaiowas made, too.

So, it all really has nothing to do with God. It all has to do with our outlook on life. This seems so "duh" but I hadn't thought about it this way.


I don't think anything in particular caused me to have the outlook I have. I think it was a gradual realization that I held alot of beliefs that weren't necessary and were sometimes a hindrance.

It all boils down to recognizing and accepting when a belief is no longer working for you. Ignoring this is a cause of alot of stress for people. I tell you... it's alot easier thinking that life just sucks sometimes rather than being upset at God for screwing you over and only being able to remind yourself that "God works in mysterious ways".


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2733556 - 05/27/04 02:27 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Well, I don't think that God has screwed me over. I do think that God works in mysterious ways. This is where karma comes in, for me. That, and reincarnation, and lessons. There are reasons for things. Lessons to learn.

Part of the lessons I have to learn is to accept a situation rather than trying to change it so that I maintain my comfort level. I can do this, for the most part. I've learned to accept things the way they are, change what I can, if I can, etc.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2734921 - 05/27/04 09:16 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

You see... this is exactly what I'm talking about.

Fuck lessons. Lessons aren't something that should be dealt to someone. Is not the better student the one who actively seeks a lesson? What... is God somehow above this ideal that he can just push whatever lesson he wants on the unwilling? And what about the lessons he pushes on the students who ARE willing? Does he always give them the particular life lessons they're seeking? NO. He gives them whatever the fuck he wants. Fuck God's "mysterious way" - it's just a euphemism for being an asshole.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineRenegade8
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Registered: 10/11/03
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2736388 - 05/27/04 08:04 PM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Cool - looks like you don't need my answer anymore.  See, every now & then procrastination actually does get me out of something. :tongue:


--------------------
I'm just see-through faded, super jaded, and out of my mind. - R.I.P. Layne


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2737360 - 05/28/04 12:06 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

God is SOOOO going to strike you dead!  Don't go outside for a while.  Wait 'til he forgets what you said.  :grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2737584 - 05/28/04 01:09 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

...but froggy, I would never hurt any of my children!  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2737776 - 05/28/04 02:07 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

"Fuck God's "mysterious way" - it's just a euphemism for being an asshole."

everyone has an asshole, even god(I think!?@!@!?_) besides that , I think Nature is god, and nature including trees and 'humans'(NOT human actions), are mysterious and random. therefore perhaps this mysterious teaching god gives us is SUPPOSED to be random, someimes unwanted 'help' in ways we could nto even imagine, even if at the time we see our kids die before our eyes we may not 'understand' the 'plan'


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2738954 - 05/28/04 06:11 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Religious ideas are just that - God is epicenter of a love that even I find myself in mysterious awe of, being entirely dumbfounded by it but at the same time grateful. A compassion that burns so intense that in His remembrance one's chest begins to clench, the eyes squint and tear up.. and even at that point the Love feels endless - like the remembrance is just the shore of an ocean (this idea seemed to of inspired Maulana Rumi in his poetry about 'drowning' in the Love of God). Those who love God through human history are nothing but a veil, or a sleek curtain on God - this is how endless the compassionate reality of God is. We as humans don't even have the means to love God with our own love.. it's too little compared to so much. We only have the ability to love God with His own Love. It's a sea, my friend sclorch. So many humans, and an abundance of love. So much of it that we are made of it in potential, bit by bit, breaking away from the Beloved God one human birth at a time, with the potential to disappear again after physical death into the sea of love. Humans don't exist. :heart:


Edited by Zahid (05/28/04 06:26 AM)


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Offlinepeleg
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2739076 - 05/28/04 06:26 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Zahid said t we only have the ability to love God with His own Love, this is so true, humans are incapable of Divine Love with-in there own self.It truly takes the Masters hand to provide this to all who are willing,peace and love Gypsy


--------------------
"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2739533 - 05/28/04 07:33 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Very nicely said, Zahid and gypsy.  :heart:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Zahid]
    #2739753 - 05/28/04 08:06 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

So, you're telling me that "God" is more akin to a really intense, self-referential feeling?
What's the point, bub?

And furthermore, I don't think "God" has any real power. I think it's all an illusion. A man-made personification of the unknown that has been figuratively endowed with power. This "deity" is then channeled (or whatever) by wizards, sages, priests, and the like... who then interpret the "will of God." This "will of God" is then used to judge humanity.

It's just ridiculous.

But sure... call it love... call it compassion... call me an asshole... it's bullshit.
And you bought it.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2739778 - 05/28/04 08:10 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

I know it wasn't me to whom you referred your post, but I don't see it that way, exactly. 

You don't believe.  That's fine.  Some of us believe.  That's fine, too.  But you're not an asshole, and people who believe are not usually delusional.  Call it "context". 

And yes, "God" is personal.  I don't think anyone should be telling anyone else what they should think or feel.  Call it "perspective".

:headbang:  <---:lol:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Frog]
    #2739879 - 05/28/04 08:32 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

Do you, Frog, attribute power to this "perspective?"


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2739894 - 05/28/04 08:37 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

In my own personal life, yes.  Now, a break for my disclaimers:  :grin:

I don't think that what I think should be thought by all participants on this forum.  If I think I derive any "power" from my perspective, it is only a personal power, and is not to be confused with any power that may or may not exist.  If YOU do not derive any power from my perspective, or from your own, should your own perspective be derived in some way from my perspective, then such power and/or perspective should be dismissed, and mine should be adopted immediately.  If my power and/or perspective does not avail itself to you, dial 9-1-1 immediately.

:grin:


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Self-limiting beliefs (or nonbeliefs) [Re: Sclorch]
    #2739936 - 05/28/04 08:46 AM (18 years, 8 months ago)

The point so to speak is an eternal moment of burning compassion. The final return to the Beloved. If I were to experience right now what I shall experience after death, I would explode as the physical human heart can only withstand a limited amount of the remembrance of God. My only bodily reaction to the remembrance of the Beloved is to cry without control.


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