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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Draft?
    #2717915 - 05/23/04 11:18 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Not sure if this has been covered or not, but it has me semi-worried. I already wrote emails to all my local newspapers asking them to cover this as I hadn't seen anything on it before. Here's the site.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2717941 - 05/23/04 11:27 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

We have talked about this before, but it's worth bringing up again.




In addition to writing local news outlets, you can influence public policy by writing your congressman.

You can find your congressman's contact information at:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/


Your congressman is your representative: of all the ellected officials of the federal government, he is the one with a direct local connection. Along with voting and public discussion, letting your representative know what you think is the established method of influencing national public policy.


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Draft? [Re: phi1618]
    #2717957 - 05/23/04 11:33 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks, and I will do. Anyone have a prewritten letter I could send? I'm not too good with formalities.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2718007 - 05/23/04 11:52 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Subject:
Pending Draft Legislation

To:
Rep. (your representative here)
(Date)

As my representatives in Congress, I want to express to you my dissatisfaction with the pending draft legislation (HR 163). I strongly encourage you to vote against this bill.

(Your name & adress)


Edited by phi1618 (05/23/04 11:59 AM)


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Draft? [Re: phi1618]
    #2718009 - 05/23/04 11:54 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

redacted


Edited by NewfoundFreedom (05/23/14 10:28 AM)


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
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Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2718015 - 05/23/04 11:56 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Offlineunbeliever
Yo Daddy!
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Registered: 05/22/04
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Re: Draft? [Re: phi1618]
    #2718054 - 05/23/04 12:10 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

heh this is the 3rd thread on this, one here, one in the pub and one in OTD. In any case I don't think this particular incarnation of the draft will get any where. Unless Bush gets "re"-elected this november, if he does.. I wonder how long it'll take me to pick up an australian accent?


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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InvisibleNewfoundFreedom
Manure whore

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 1,915
Re: Draft? [Re: unbeliever]
    #2718059 - 05/23/04 12:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

If he gets re-elected, I wonder how long it will take me to engage in my right to bare arms.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2718092 - 05/23/04 12:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If he gets re-elected, I wonder how long it will take me to engage in my right to bare arms.




Do you normally keep your arms covered?  :wink:


--------------------
Happiness is a warm gun...


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2718392 - 05/23/04 02:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Early drafts of the second ammendment prohibited a draft. Its a damn shame they removed that part of the bill of rights.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2718606 - 05/23/04 02:57 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Early drafts of the second ammendment prohibited a draft. Its a damn shame they removed that part of the bill of rights.



The Thirteenth Ammendment prohibits slavery. I think that should count.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2718647 - 05/23/04 03:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:smirk:


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2719089 - 05/23/04 05:11 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Keep this site in mind for the future:

http://www.objector.org/

"The Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors supports and promotes individual and collective resistance to war and preparations for war."


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2719130 - 05/23/04 05:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

For some odd reason, it seems the vast majority of those who support the draft are those who will never be drafted themselves

But just for comical purposes, I do hope they instate it and see the huge backlash as I watch it all up in BC  :smirk:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Draft? [Re: unbeliever]
    #2719191 - 05/23/04 05:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Bush gets "re"-elected this november, if he does.. I wonder how long it'll take me to pick up an australian accent?




Fuck it, I'm going there regardless. Aussies, make way for me!!


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2721380 - 05/24/04 02:46 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The Thirteenth Ammendment prohibits slavery. I think that should count.



I think so too, but unfortunately it doesn't.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: Ravus]
    #2721385 - 05/24/04 02:47 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
But just for comical purposes, I do hope they instate it and see the huge backlash as I watch it all up in BC  :smirk:



I might just be joining you up there. I will not stand to have my freedom stolen from me.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2722293 - 05/24/04 11:53 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

silversoul7 said:
The Thirteenth Ammendment prohibits slavery. I think that should count.



I think so too, but unfortunately it doesn't.



I've actually been wondering lately if anyone's tried challenging the draft on those grounds, and if so, I wonder what justification the Supreme Court gave for why the draft doesn't count as slavery or involuntary servitude.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Draft? [Re: z@z.com]
    #2724003 - 05/24/04 06:13 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

Ravus said:
But just for comical purposes, I do hope they instate it and see the huge backlash as I watch it all up in BC  :smirk:



I might just be joining you up there. I will not stand to have my freedom stolen from me.




And if you do i hope i see your sorry dragged back to an American prison. Freedom isn't free.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724012 - 05/24/04 06:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Freedom isn't free.



Typical Orwellian double-speak. Of course freedom is free. It costs nothing for people to leave me alone.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2724036 - 05/24/04 06:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724039 - 05/24/04 06:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.



Really? I would think that it's just being consistent with the definition of freedom.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2724051 - 05/24/04 06:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Its called context buddy. Sometimes words imply word than their basic definition.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724847 - 05/24/04 10:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
And if you do i hope i see your sorry dragged back to an American prison. Freedom isn't free.



And it doesn't exist at all if I can be forced to give up my most basic rights.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724861 - 05/24/04 10:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.



Freedom isn't free and it does come at the price of having to defend it, but it must be defended voluntarily for it to exist at all.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2725326 - 05/24/04 11:36 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Freedom isn't free.

Correct, sometimes it costs moving out of a country that attempts to take it away from you .

If you are referring to "American Freedom", you can foot the bill on that one :wink:.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,771
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2726300 - 05/25/04 04:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I've been wondering about this "tighter border security" Canada has supposedly signed up for. I would hate to hear of our border guards turning people away because they've been drafted. Or worse, turning them straight over to US authorities. It may be true, though. I've noticed members of my government lately who seem more likely to want to please bush than Cretien ever was :frown:

So I decided to look at the possibility of claiming refugee status. I've heard that Canada is pretty big in taking in refugees.

Take a look here


Person in need of protection

A person in need of protection is a person in Canada whose removal to their country of nationality or former habitual residence would subject them to the possibility of torture, risk to life, or risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.


I'm sure you could claim that forced military service would subject you to "the possibility of torture, risk to life, or risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment".

You can make the claim for asylum at any entry point. I'm not sure how this "tighter" border security will affect the process, or if it will, but I think if you made the claim you would be let in at least until you got a hearing.


And for whoever says "freedom isn't free"... :nonono:

If what you have isn't free...it's not FREEdom. :wink:

There's a reason those two words are so close. Don't try and change the definition of freedom to suit what you think you have.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2726440 - 05/25/04 04:47 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

When exactly was the last time that freedom was defended by America?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2726708 - 05/25/04 08:19 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Freedom is not free. It is very expensive. I must be willing to stand beside somebody and listen to what they have to say, when I have spent a lifetime working against their position. I must be willing to accept that their beliefs are valid, even if they go against every value that I have. I must accept that for me to have freedom to do as I want, I must allow others to have freedom, even when what they do is wrong in my eyes. Free? Hardly.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Draft? [Re: Seuss]
    #2727339 - 05/25/04 12:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think of that as a great price, so I don't think of freedom as anything but free.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
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Re: Draft? [Re: Seuss]
    #2727747 - 05/25/04 02:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You naturally have to do those things. It costs you nothing, because while you have the freedom to listen to them, you also have the freedom to walk away. Freedom doesn't cost anything, because freedom is choices. The only way freedom can be stopped is by limiting those choices, and that is what costs money and such. Freedom is natural, it's free and the ways our freedoms and choices are violated require maintenance and even more money or they will fall

And even if I were to come back to America, I would rather accept the jailtime than the military. There's not much of a difference besides one goes against everything I stand for.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Draft? [Re: Ravus]
    #2727773 - 05/25/04 02:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The cost isn't in listening to them... the cost is swallowing ones pride and allowing them to have an equal stand to say and do as they please.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
Registered: 11/03/98
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Re: Draft? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2733666 - 05/26/04 06:52 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
When exactly was the last time that freedom was defended by America?




Your avatar is worship worthy.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
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Re: Draft? [Re: Crobih]
    #2733970 - 05/26/04 09:21 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Wow an entire conversation solely because of a rainbow 6 commercial.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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