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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2724036 - 05/24/04 07:23 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724039 - 05/24/04 07:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.



Really? I would think that it's just being consistent with the definition of freedom.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
Loc: the shores of Tripoli
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Draft? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2724051 - 05/24/04 07:27 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Its called context buddy. Sometimes words imply word than their basic definition.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724847 - 05/24/04 11:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
And if you do i hope i see your sorry dragged back to an American prison. Freedom isn't free.



And it doesn't exist at all if I can be forced to give up my most basic rights.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2724861 - 05/24/04 11:05 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
Believing that freedom is free is quite naive.



Freedom isn't free and it does come at the price of having to defend it, but it must be defended voluntarily for it to exist at all.


--------------------
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineFrankieJustTrypt
and fell

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 537
Loc: MI
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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2725326 - 05/25/04 12:36 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Freedom isn't free.

Correct, sometimes it costs moving out of a country that attempts to take it away from you .

If you are referring to "American Freedom", you can foot the bill on that one :wink:.


--------------------
If you want a free lunch, you need to learn how to eat good advice.


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InvisibletrendalM
J♠
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Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,771
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Draft? [Re: NewfoundFreedom]
    #2726300 - 05/25/04 05:03 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I've been wondering about this "tighter border security" Canada has supposedly signed up for. I would hate to hear of our border guards turning people away because they've been drafted. Or worse, turning them straight over to US authorities. It may be true, though. I've noticed members of my government lately who seem more likely to want to please bush than Cretien ever was :frown:

So I decided to look at the possibility of claiming refugee status. I've heard that Canada is pretty big in taking in refugees.

Take a look here


Person in need of protection

A person in need of protection is a person in Canada whose removal to their country of nationality or former habitual residence would subject them to the possibility of torture, risk to life, or risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.


I'm sure you could claim that forced military service would subject you to "the possibility of torture, risk to life, or risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment".

You can make the claim for asylum at any entry point. I'm not sure how this "tighter" border security will affect the process, or if it will, but I think if you made the claim you would be let in at least until you got a hearing.


And for whoever says "freedom isn't free"... :nonono:

If what you have isn't free...it's not FREEdom. :wink:

There's a reason those two words are so close. Don't try and change the definition of freedom to suit what you think you have.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2726440 - 05/25/04 05:47 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

When exactly was the last time that freedom was defended by America?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Draft? [Re: d33p]
    #2726708 - 05/25/04 09:19 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Freedom is not free. It is very expensive. I must be willing to stand beside somebody and listen to what they have to say, when I have spent a lifetime working against their position. I must be willing to accept that their beliefs are valid, even if they go against every value that I have. I must accept that for me to have freedom to do as I want, I must allow others to have freedom, even when what they do is wrong in my eyes. Free? Hardly.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Draft? [Re: Seuss]
    #2727339 - 05/25/04 01:07 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I don't think of that as a great price, so I don't think of freedom as anything but free.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
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Re: Draft? [Re: Seuss]
    #2727747 - 05/25/04 03:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

You naturally have to do those things. It costs you nothing, because while you have the freedom to listen to them, you also have the freedom to walk away. Freedom doesn't cost anything, because freedom is choices. The only way freedom can be stopped is by limiting those choices, and that is what costs money and such. Freedom is natural, it's free and the ways our freedoms and choices are violated require maintenance and even more money or they will fall

And even if I were to come back to America, I would rather accept the jailtime than the military. There's not much of a difference besides one goes against everything I stand for.


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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Draft? [Re: Ravus]
    #2727773 - 05/25/04 03:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The cost isn't in listening to them... the cost is swallowing ones pride and allowing them to have an equal stand to say and do as they please.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineCrobih
rap-cord
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Re: Draft? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2733666 - 05/26/04 07:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
When exactly was the last time that freedom was defended by America?




Your avatar is worship worthy.


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Offlined33p
Welcome to Violence

Registered: 07/12/03
Posts: 5,381
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Re: Draft? [Re: Crobih]
    #2733970 - 05/26/04 10:21 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Wow an entire conversation solely because of a rainbow 6 commercial.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang


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