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bw86
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Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles / Gourmet Monotubs
#27176884 - 01/29/21 07:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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updated*I am making a bunch of over supplemented HWFP spawn so that way it equals to about 20-25% after it is spawned into differnt ratios of bucket tekt coir and coir/HWFP. I will attempt to dial in the air flow for the specific specie and run monos. What if any edibles can be cultivated on coir in modified monotubs with the right spawn? The equivalent of PF tek cubes spawned to coir but for edibles. This page for Beech mushrooms says "straw does not provide commercially viable crops unless inoculated up to 25% of its weight with sawdust spawn." Anyway, anyone have any good coir runs with edibles?
Edited by bw86 (02/25/23 08:49 PM)
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27177029 - 01/29/21 09:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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coir has cellulose but not as many 'nutrients' as straw and why it is so impervious to contams.. so doesnt help much other then hold moisture.. coir is relatively expensive compared to straw or wood AND has less nutrients..maybe that answers ur question?
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27177455 - 01/30/21 06:11 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Interesting for sure but doesn't answer any questions Im curious about the minimum amount of wood for woodlovers .Also curious about coir loving edibles.
We get such massive yield off of coir with cubensis. There has to be other mushrooms that can grow well on it. With a lil bit of searching grows can be found with all sorts of mushrooms.I was just looking for conversation. The relative lack of interest in the gourmet forums is disheartening. I feel like yall did all the experiments already and experimenting is so beneath everybody they cant be bothered to talk about it.
anyway "straw does not provide commercially viable crops unless inoculated up to 25% of its weight with sawdust spawn."
Does anyone think this statement might be true for any specie of mushroom with in place of straw? Is there a single specie out there someone would think hmmm maybe 25% wood to coir would work?
When take into account the hours its takes to pasteurize straw then coir actually becomes cheaper. I'm not looking to supply restaurants here, Just to have a lil fun.
Agrocybe Aegerita [Pioppino] on Coir/Coffee King Oysters On Coir Calocybe Indica on Coir Reishi tubs with just Coir, Coffee, Vermiculite Chestnut Mushroom coco-coir shoebox. Here is a paper on C. indica "The optimum mycelial growth in the spawn packet was observed in the coconut coir substrate ...-The presence of the right proportion of α-cellulose, hemi-cellulose, pectin, and lignin was the probable cause of the higher rate of mycelium in the coconut coir"
Edited by bw86 (01/30/21 03:35 PM)
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27177575 - 01/30/21 08:15 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Please make the experiments, loving your kings on coir thread. We definitely need more activity and experiments in the gourmet forum.
I will be trying kings and lions mane on straw these days. Maybe mix some coir and straw also.
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27177676 - 01/30/21 09:27 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
bw86 said: The relative lack of interest in the gourmet forums is disheartening. I feel like yall did all the experiments already and experimenting is so beneath everybody they cant be bothered to talk about it.
You gave your original post like 12 hours for people to respond before coming back with an attitude like this?
Dude, the G&MM forum is just not as busy as mush cult. Give folks a couple days to see your post and respond, and you might get some really good insight, but not if you come in insinuating we're all arrogant and smug or whatever it is you're saying there.
I would think someone who's worked with mushrooms would have a little more patience.
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: Forrester]
#27177813 - 01/30/21 11:09 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I dont get it obv.. why do u want to use less wood and more coir? coir is more money then wood.. and price of any increase in yeild (which is unlikely as no nutrients and coir is a water thing) wouldn't make up for the coir. remember commerical growers have it pretty dialed for BE.
straw is cheapest/fastest so using min amount of wood to get to fruit makes sense ie 25%. it may make more sense to grow out on grain spawn and knock up wood/straw/coir with that as it has more nutrients would grow out faster and add alot of nutrients to your logs.
if paper says 25% wood in that species i would imagine thats the min number for that species. some wood lovers grow on 100% straw. even certain strains of shitake.
wood pellets are 5 bucks for 50 lbs, straw can actually be more expensive then wood depending on where u get it. coir is 14 bucks for 5 kg or 11lbs
again coir isnt adding any meaningful nutrients to the mushroom other then water.. dont think water is to much limiting factor in straw and wood logs and could put verm if it was. coir lasts FOREVER in bacterial fungaly active soil. the reason it works for cubensis is we are using grain with little moisture and lots of nutrients so adding coir allows mushrooms access to needed water to fruit.
adding 25% wood to coir may work but its pointless why not 85%wood for better cheaper results?
in short straw wood are nutrients sources, coir vermiculite and peat(for most part) very little nutrients for mushrooms but add water and are only effective if species will fruit on cased grain for example. if u are not saving time, money, or gaining yield, whats the point?
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27177935 - 01/30/21 12:37 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Maybe if you live at the coconut farm the numbers start making more sense
I think we all enjoy a good test especially if it's with the less seen mushrooms like calocybe indica or the paddy straw.
Search sparkles posts if you want to see some incredible calocybe indica growing.
As far as the incredible yields of cubes on coir, a typical grow uses 600g dry coir 3000g water and 3000g of myceliated grains. The coir is mostly a sponge.
Edited by deadmandave (01/30/21 12:48 PM)
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: deadmandave]
#27177944 - 01/30/21 12:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I wasn't talking about this post I was talking about(Mycetinis scorodonius on coir)that I bumped for a year and only got one or two hits after a give away. I guess I feel like the G&MM growers ARE the true elitist on the site. Sorry if i was short. I hope to still hear some insight.
(edit- or this give away that has been up a week now with noone interested)
Quote:
the man said:
adding 25% wood to coir may work but its pointless why not 85%wood for better cheaper results?
in short straw wood are nutrients sources, coir vermiculite and peat(for most part) very little nutrients for mushrooms but add water and are only effective if species will fruit on cased grain for example. if u are not saving time, money, or gaining yield, whats the point?
It comes down to time
I can make six 4# wood chip spawn bag in one day. (or four 6#) It would also take me a full day to pasteurize 6 tubs worth of substrate SO lets just say for ease my day is worth $100 That means it would cost me $100 dollars to use woodchips or straw regardless the price of the medium. Where as the 6 bricks of coir cost me $14 with virtually zero prep time.
Edited by bw86 (03/07/23 05:44 PM)
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27178020 - 01/30/21 01:30 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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"When take into account the hours its takes to pasteurize straw then coir actually becomes cheaper. I'm not looking to supply restaurants here, Just to have a lil fun."
i see u edited and added. again, one needs to remember coir isnt adding any nutrients ie yield. so yes u can add more and more coir to woodchips till it wont fruit but what is exactly the point? as coir isnt adding anything to the grow it def is more expensive ie the myc doesnt eat the coir and produce mushrooms it eats the grains and uses moisture from core to grow mushrooms. u could add broken plates into a bag but why or expanded clay they may add some moisture but nothing more.
if have 100g of wood and 50grams of coir fruits great, adding 300g of coir is likely to actually lower your yeild as less "close available" nutrients. where if u had 100g of wood ur likely to get pretty much same yeild as adding 50 grams of coir.
anyway i am maybe confused and dont really know how to explain it. but like breeding define what your goals are. what is it your trying to do? why?
traditional growers grow out grain a high nutrient medium that colonizes quickly.. reason is high nutrients and quickness. then it is put on straw or wood or whatever mix that colonizes slower but has essential "nutrients" that are required to fruit OR a way to get larger amounts of nutrients and water for the mushroom to grow on without having to be in a sterile environment. ie easier to pour boiling water then put in the PC. and is cheaper then grain.
guess example would be when pput cubes on straw and get bumper crop vs just coir as it adds nutrients. so adding the most coir posible is not only more money but either slow things down but not add to yield. think if u did a ratio of grain to coir in cubes of 1:10 ie(get not exact) like 1/5 of quart of grain and 1 and 4/5ths of coir in a shoebox. yes may get some fruits but whats the point? same goes for oysters.
think, is there a reason why mushrooms wont grow on pure coir? is there a reason why coir and get away not pasteurized? are those 2 things connected?
think of coir as verm or perlite. or soiless medium that u have to put hydroponic nutrients into for it to grow plants as simply holds water.
lol anyhoo hope that helps. if lay out your exact goals may make me less confused.
also no, there is a difference between coir and straw.. most edibles can be grown on straw alone this is not the case for coir. coir doesnt have nutrients like straw.
EDit; so to save time is your goal but coir but reason it doesnt need pasteurization is its next to no nutrients for mushrooms fungus bacteria to grow on. it also works with grain as spawn because grain in proper ratios grows through the coir quick enough to prevent bacteria taking hold. so adding a tonne of unpastrurized coir to wood spawn prob would end up being bacterial because of the slowness. remember bacteria can grow on anything moist. spawning is just beating the clock.
u may look into using a cooler vs jars in a pot and def can pasteurize more then few 4 lb bags. roger rabbit has some techs. also using lime to pastuerize straw. turn up water heater and PC full of boiling water will be enough to do as much as u can handle only takes a couple hours per cooler full so def can do more then 24# bag i na whole day.
do some side by sides straw vs coir.. also may be worth making grain spawn vs wood spawn esp if is for indoors.?
Edited by the man (01/30/21 01:51 PM)
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27178133 - 01/30/21 03:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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So basically you believe I will get better yield just fruiting my woodchip spawn bags on their own Vs spawing to coir. Despite the mushrooms will have excess to an extra gallon of water. Why is it that there is no difference in yield when growing cubes in coir vs manure? For the simple fact that cubes get all the nutes they need from the grain and they hold similar amounts of water?
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27211884 - 02/17/21 08:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I get that coir is not suppling anything except water and a fruiting surface. Correct? With that said is the following statement true? 1#grain spawned to 3# wood (Considered 25% supplemented?) = 1#grain spawned to 3# wood spawned to 1 brick coir.
If thats true would it be better to supplement my wood spawn with enough bran(or something) to make the entire tub +15% supplemented after the coir? like this . 1#grain spawned to 3#wood+bran spawned to 1 brick of coir.
Basically overclock the wood spawn more than the mushrooms need but then cut it to the correct amount with unpasteurized coir.
Edited by bw86 (02/17/21 08:09 PM)
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27212209 - 02/18/21 12:07 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think you are wrong about coir supplying nothing but water. It is a high source of lignin. Not all wood lovers do well on it straight. Oysters will fruit satisfactorily on it. Obviously not as well as supplemented substrates. For hobby grows sure why not?
--------------------
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: Quadman]
#27212223 - 02/18/21 12:19 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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some guy just posted, got tiny mushrooms from coir and coffee so moving to wood... should ask him? but is a newbie...
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27212442 - 02/18/21 06:10 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ask him what? What you think? I don't think Coir has absolutely nothing either but thats what the post above me was trying to say. SO to appease the poster and to continue the conversation I agreed.
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27212753 - 02/18/21 10:26 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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how his grow went, and if it was the coir or other mistakes causing issues.. garner alot of your answers!!?
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27212775 - 02/18/21 10:34 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would ask some guy to join the thread but i dunno who that is.
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27212810 - 02/18/21 10:53 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27213445 - 02/18/21 04:47 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I dunno man the fact that you are mentally comparing these two threads show me you don't understand what i would like to talk about and or try. The only similarity is that dude grew oysters on coir one time.
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the man
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27213617 - 02/18/21 06:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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may give some answers about how they grow on coir.. not sure how thats all that different? anyhoo, must be pretty far along now and can run the expirements!! could even knock up some pure coir in jars if u want to see growth.. if species u wanna grow need more wood then straw as per document cited. using coir instead of the straw is going to be worse obviously.
good luck! post results!
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: the man]
#27214276 - 02/19/21 06:57 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well anyway thanks for engaging in conversation. I will update this thread and or link the experiments I do. I will continue to work toward the above mentioned plan. Use one quart of grain to knock up 3 quart bags of wood with enough supplements to equal 15% substrate after factoring in 650 grams of coir weight.
In this case is the weight of the original quart of seed counted towards the supplement ratio?
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#27214568 - 02/19/21 09:59 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I think you can count the weight of the grain as supplement, this would be important for shiitake which doesnt like very much supplementation.
which species are you going to try this with?
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: deadmandave]
#27214714 - 02/19/21 11:18 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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mycetinis scorodonius and oysters will be the first since I have them clean. I bought 2.5# grain spawn bags from a non sponsor but they all look terrible and will have to go to agar. Calocybe Indica - on straw pellets Hypsizygus Tesulattus Pholiota Adiposa
I would be glad to entertain anything as a candidate.
Edited by bw86 (03/05/23 08:06 PM)
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86] 1
#27543645 - 11/14/21 09:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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As far as cost effectiveness coir is much more expensive making impractical, and saving time by using coir defeats the purpose, if you have to supplement it, it will still contaminate unless sterilized
If you don’t supplement the coir, then lipa’s tek for sawdust is pretty much equivalent in my opinion to bucket tek and works based on the same principles, but it’s more cost effective, both sawdust and coir are low in nitrogen making it difficult for fungi and other microbes to extract any form of energy from
Coir is about 41-50% lignin which is actually the preferred food for wood decaying white rot fungi like oyster and shiitake, and lots of other gourmet and medicinal mushrooms ...the rest of it is about 26 % cellulose and 17 % hemicellulose
Everyone up here saying coir is useless and has no nutritional value is very very ill informed and it’s disheartening to see no one does any research
The ideal carbon to nitrogen ratio for shiitake and oyster is about 50 to 1 ratio
coir is 100/1 carbon/nitrogen ratio the same as wood or sawdust So there’s no difference there in its ability to be digested, although it’s a good idea to supplement it with additional nitrogen source like rice hulls or wheat bran the same ratio as you would for sawdust
It actually contains more lignin then wood coming in at at 40-50% lignin Wood is only about 30% lignin so this could be beneficial for certain strains that focus their energy on lignin like amarilla species
Nutrition: Coir contains a useful amount of available potassium, and small quantities of:
Nitrogen Phosphorous Calcium Magnesium Sulphur Copper Zinc Manganese Molybdenum Boron Iron








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Edited by 7Suns (11/14/21 11:07 PM)
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: bw86]
#28169410 - 02/02/23 04:06 PM (11 months, 19 days ago) |
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Its been a while but im getting back into the swing of things. This project is my main goal. I have to re-read the above posts to absorb what yall told me last time.
I had no luck with the Garlic scented mycena but have some cultures broke out of cold storage that I think would be fun to play with along with.
Apioperdon pyriforme (pear-shaped puffball) and exidia recisa (amber jelly) i'm curious to see what these wild things look like when done on blocks.The ultimate goal is bucket tek wood lovers in monotubs. ( as user friendly as can be)
Quote:
the man said:
adding 25% wood to coir may work but its pointless why not 85%wood for better cheaper results?
in short straw wood are nutrients sources, coir vermiculite and peat(for most part) very little nutrients for mushrooms but add water and are only effective if species will fruit on cased grain for example. if u are not saving time, money, or gaining yield, whats the point?
This probably sums it up... My thought is that the myc can spread so easily throughout coir that it consumes the entire block faster. You seem to think it will just spread the contams from the bucket tekted pellets faster. Again i need to re-read and absorb everything above.
ATM this is what i'm thinking 600 grams wood pellet 490 grams wheat bran =(20% dry weight after spawning) 50 grams vermiculite 800 grams water 1 quart Pint Grain spawn This makes a 5# supplemented spawn bag
Spawned too bucket tek 1 brick of coir (save half for pseudocase) 1 quart of vermiculite ( I like spending money it helps my soil when I compost them and its a great visual aid when the spawn is mixed properly) 1200 grams wood pellet 1600 ml boiling water
This should be two one 56 quart monos around 5inches thick.
:reads-while-scratching-head-is-he-crazy:
Edited by bw86 (02/05/23 10:21 AM)
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: bw86]
#28173089 - 02/05/23 08:23 AM (11 months, 16 days ago) |
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The wheat bran should be 20% of the dry weight (e.g. baker's math 5:1 pellets:bran) not 20% of the total weight of the hydrated sub. Also, a qt. of spawn is an unusually large amount for a 5Lb block, the dry weight of the grain should be subtracted from the bran.
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: Shu]
#28173230 - 02/05/23 10:20 AM (11 months, 16 days ago) |
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The bran is 20% of the dry weight not hydrated. I did mean to write 1 pint for inoculation not a quart. I will subtract the weight of a dry pint of grain from the bran. Good call.
Also that all makes one 5 inch thick 56 quart tub I don't know why I wrote 2.
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: bw86]
#28173251 - 02/05/23 10:42 AM (11 months, 16 days ago) |
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490g is 20% of 2450g. Which dry mass weighs 2450g?
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: Shu]
#28174421 - 02/06/23 06:07 AM (11 months, 15 days ago) |
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600 grams wood pellet 25 grams vermiculite from the spawn block 625 grams coir 25 verm 1,200 grams wood From the substrate = 2,400 = 480 grams =20%
+/- a few grams of water for the verm.
- (like you said) the pint used to knock it up about (200 grams)
So 290 grams bran would be my 20%
(these were too big -revisedVvV )
Edited by bw86 (03/05/23 06:48 PM)
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: bw86]
#28203800 - 02/25/23 10:10 AM (10 months, 27 days ago) |
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Finally had the time to make some bags. My math was off for the size of bags I can run. New recipe for 2.75# bags, bags in the PC right meow 300 grams wood 25 verm 230 bran (41%) 800 ml water After spawning to coir 555(spawn bag + 200g wbs pint) 625 coir 25 verm 1000 wood (10% bran^)
Notes/Species currently out of storage in various stages of growth. IF interested in joining these experiments with my cultures send a pm with some caveats I will send. dry verm on bottom of spawn bag, Mix bran and HWFP before adding water. 1300 wood (65% total wood) 330 protein 675 filler.
Edited by bw86 (03/05/23 06:44 PM)
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bw86
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles ( oh boy here he goes again) [Re: bw86] 1
#28216371 - 03/05/23 06:40 PM (10 months, 18 days ago) |
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I have three identical bags of blue oyster to be used as crash test dummies Recipe for #2.75 bags 300 grams wood 25 verm 230 bran (41%) 700 ml water #2.725 1- control will fruit as a supplemented sawdust block 2- submerged for 12 hours before fruiting 3- spawned to coir
After spawning to coir 555(spawn bag including 200g wbs pint) 625 coir 25 verm 1 gallon water.
Trial run to see will hardwood fuel pellets absorb more h20 after 12 hour soak. will all the extra mass and moister obtained by spawning to coir increase yield?- is it worth it?
 edit- after 20 hours i drained the bag and it gained 60 grams of water. I left it upside down for an hour and it lost 10 grams.
Any real experiment would need to be replicated 10 fold this by no means is an experiment but is meant to paint a picture for me.
edit-I meant for this post to be in my journal since it does not exactly fit into any of the three projects in this thread. Although the information obtained will lend toward its development.
Edited by bw86 (03/06/23 06:21 PM)
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page021576
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Registered: 02/21/23
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Re: Minimum wood for woodlovers/ coir loving edibles [Re: bw86]
#28449252 - 08/28/23 12:23 AM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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I accidentally grew pink oyster on CVG I mixed up my spawn one time and had half APE and half pink oyster. They were supposed to be all APE. Thought it was lipstick mold so threw outside in my compost pile. A week later they grew. They were super dense but that was from so much FAE. But in the end they were decent oysters. And APEs.
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