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OfflineDark lotus
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Re: bunsen burner usage
    #27168245 - 01/25/21 01:35 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Wondering how many of you use bunsen burners to create a working environment instead of a still air box?

Thinking along the lines of working on Agar plates and making spore syringes ect.

How close to bunsen do you need to be for a clean working environment?

Would this be an appropriate tool for this?
New to agar just beginning to learn.
Have had alot of success with multispore syringes I've made without need for anything other than manually disinfecting and sterilizing stuff.

Currently just wanting to improve on sterile technique as planning on doing more grain and agar stuff which I'm more or less new too.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Dark lotus]
    #27168251 - 01/25/21 01:42 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Give it a shot.
I’d think it would come down to your technique.
I wouldn’t think it would be preferable for a long session... but a transfer or two?
Try it with something that wouldn’t be sorely missed,

Edit: With everything you want to do, you should have at least a still air box.
       


Edited by ModularMind (01/25/21 01:45 AM)


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InvisibleBaba Yaga
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: ModularMind]
    #27168296 - 01/25/21 02:37 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25291639#25291639

Quote:

Josex said:
Quote:

fishermansjc said:
Quote:

Josex said:

These are my "torches" and they are also my "flowhood". Bye SAB. :bye:


My freaky ass LC jars for aspirating LC into 60 ml syringes in a matter of a few seconds, no SHIP.





How has your success rate been?
I pour all my plates under a flame just like this, but it would be cheaper to set this up than to build a flowhood ...
:takingnotes:




My success rate has been 100% for the last 5 months, but it took me some testing and tweaking to learn how to use the bunsens properly. I only use one bunsen burner for agar and the 2 together for inoculating grains. For grain inoculation I only barely crack the lid and squirt LC from a syringe, so very little risk there, but I also did plently of A2G in winter and didn't have any issues.

Been working with them since October or so, the only kind of contam I saw was satellite bacterial colonies on agar in the beginning, but as soon as I started wearing a mask I didn't see them again.

Worth mentioning that the spore load at my place is really high, that's the main reason I started experimenting with fire and I was pleasantly surprised to discover that it works, and it works very well. It's a long story but to make it short I was growing tired of getting mold when using the SAB when I had never had those issues before, not even when I was a noob.

You still need good technique and relatively still air in the room as to disturb the sterile field created by the bunsens as little as possible. I can leave a plate wide open for 3 minutes (haven't tried more) and nothing will grow.

I'll make a detailed write-up explaining exactly how I use them when I have the time, very busy at work atm.

There's a price to pay, though. They raise the temp of the room a lot and I sweat a lot now that it's getting hotter here where I live. They can also be a bit dangerous, not because you can burn yourself (haven't yet), but because you need to take breaks every 40 minutes or so. They suck up the O2 of a little room in 50 minutes or so, so you're left with very little oxygen, a lot of CO2 and the burners are no longer able to produce that nice roaring blue flame wich is achieved when there's good combustion, only possible when there's the right mix of o2 and gas.

As the O2 of the room is consumed, the burners no longer make a good combustion, the flame is weaker and redder (that tells you to take a break), your eyes start to sting because there's gas that isn't getting burned and you get a little dizzy. It's cool to see that as soon as you open the door of the room and the air is replenished, the bunsens start to work properly again.

On how it works, there's surprisingly very little information on the internet, but between what I've gathered and what I've observed through testing I think I already have a good idea.





--------------------


Edited by Baba Yaga (01/25/21 02:54 AM)


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OfflineGTEED
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Dark lotus]
    #27168304 - 01/25/21 02:49 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Dark lotus said:
Wondering how many of you use bunsen burners to create a working environment instead of a still air box?

Thinking along the lines of working on Agar plates and making spore syringes ect.

How close to bunsen do you need to be for a clean working environment?

Would this be an appropriate tool for this?
New to agar just beginning to learn.
Have had alot of success with multispore syringes I've made without need for anything other than manually disinfecting and sterilizing stuff.

Currently just wanting to improve on sterile technique as planning on doing more grain and agar stuff which I'm more or less new too.



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/18914758

RR's post at the bottom seems to be a good enough answer for using a flame in the air for a sterile environment.

I wondered this myself. Also to me, It does seem risky having a rigged set up with a huge flame indoors with large amounts of fuel would not be super safe for the iffy chance it makes a small area contaminate free.


Edited by GTEED (01/25/21 02:55 AM)


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OfflineHappinessStanS
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: GTEED]
    #27168367 - 01/25/21 05:08 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Plus, a sab costs like £10, how much does constantly running bunsen burners cost? Then there's the environmental impact to consider.
I'll stick with my sab.


--------------------
Once upon a time in the land of dreams,
where the sky was silky soft and full of coloured dreams.
Deep inside a rainbow lived Happiness Stan,
in a small Victoriana charabanc.


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OfflineDark lotus
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Registered: 11/30/16
Posts: 464
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: HappinessStan]
    #27168410 - 01/25/21 06:02 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Hmmmm I'll mess with both and see what works. Now to crack on.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Dark lotus]
    #27168427 - 01/25/21 06:18 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I don't like to talk about this and I don't like to be quoted on the subject either (that post I made was nearly 3 years old), but now that the deed has been done I will make a post here later (busy atm) explaining how I currently use it and its pros and cons.
In all honesty I wouldn't like to recommend people to work near a fire source but since the subject came up I'll do my best to explain the risks and safety measures for harm reduction purposes.

Also, there is a limited a amount of procedures you can do safely with a bunsen, so it's probably not for everybody.


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OfflineDark lotus
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Registered: 11/30/16
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Josex]
    #27168437 - 01/25/21 06:30 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I see it as a stop gap measure for the moment, it's a bit mad scientist,  but its something I'm already comfortable working with from other areas of interest.

Would appreciate a write up considering your experience.


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OfflineInthepit
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Josex]
    #27168552 - 01/25/21 09:19 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It sounds like it also burns airborne contams.

In 1974 I started with a book & spores from Homestead.
Directions called for a cardboard glove box, lots of Lysol
and and an alcohol lamp in the box!


--------------------
GLOSSARY        Getting Started      :chugbeer:        My LAGM21    Do you exist?


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Inthepit]
    #27169009 - 01/25/21 02:13 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I've always hated the idea of ever having to make a tek on how I use the burners since I know this can be controversial (and potentially dangerous) but since Baba Yaga quoted that old post (no problem fam) and I did say some dumb shit in that post (was fairly new to using the burners) I feel I have the responsability to explain how I work with them currently so that people know what to expect and don't do some dumb shit with fire. Will try to be as transparent and non-biased as possible.

First off, you won't ever need to run 2 bunsens at the same time, I currently do everything with just one. Second, you don't need to choke yourself :facepalm:. It's very important to make sure the door of the room is cracked, or you could also leave a window a bit cracked instead. You just want to avoid air currents that's all and I promise you won't ever run out of oxygen to breathe nor will your eyes ever sting. Although one thing you are likely to experience in a hot summer is a severe case of swamp ass, you will sweat a lot in a long sesh I promise, but hey I did get that in the SAB too.

The disclaimer I'd like to make first is that most of the procedures and techniques I perform under the flame are very foolproof, have a very high success rate and carry virtually no vectors, to the point I'm fairly sure I could do them open air with a high success rate. However I don't say this to detract from the effectiveness of the bunsen because you can do a number of procudures safely and confidently with a really high success rate, although there are techniques that have a lower success rate with the bunsen and a SAB would be preferable for those who want to perform them.

The things I have done with a very high success rate (+99%) under the flame are:
  • Agar to agar transfers (I work with no-pours). I've read you can also do pour agar safely with a bunsen but I've never done it.
  • Agar to grain (quart jars).
  • Inoculating broth for LC using the poke through a special lid build that I don't even need to open to inoculate (this I could do open air if I wanted).
  • Aspirating LC into 60ml syringes from the above mentioned LC jars (low risk too).
  • Squirting LC into grain jars using a syringe (this is what I mostly do these days and is extremely low risk too).


I've noticed that the optimal working area (what is also called "sterile field") is always under the flame in a 15cm radius from the burner. This is your clean zone where you can do your sterile procedures safely as long as you use good technique. The further up from the base of the flame the more likely you are to fail. So for this reason the following techniques carry a lower success rate:
  • Pouring LC into grain jars. I've done it with ~85% success rate so this is not acceptable.
  • G2G. I never did it using the burner but since it's similar to pouring I'll go out on a limb and say you don't want to g2g with a bunsen.
  • Any bag work, never did it either for obvious reasons.


On how it works, I wouldn't say it creates a sterile field or "sterile sphere" like I've seen implied often. The flame changes the trajectory of aerosol particles so it's far less likely they'll land within a certain radius.
Here's a depiction that vaguely explains how it works:


Always look for that blue roaring flame, as this is an indication there's good combustion taking place and that the flame is as hot as it can get.

Before getting to work I clean the table and the exterior of the burner itself with 10% bleach solution and then ignate the burner. I clean with iso the tools I'll need for the sesh and put them in the "sterile field" and everything I'll be inoculating I'll place at a distance away from the burner and will only take what I need to inoculate or work on, one thing at a time. Anything that I put in the sterile field gets flamed with a torch (any type of glass jar, metal lids, metal tools...) and if it's plastic I simply clean it with an iso soaked paper towel.

I always wear gloves and a mask. I clean my gloves with iso sparingly and never use much so it dries out faster, that way I don't catch fire. Some people love to have their gloves constantly soaked in iso and this is not only unnecessary, it's also counterproductive because alcohol actually kills them nasties when it dries out from a surface.

It feels very freeing working open air, so you'll probably enjoy working with a bunsen if your technique is good and you're aware of its limitations and modus operandi.


Edited by Josex (01/26/21 06:04 AM)


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Josex]
    #27169090 - 01/25/21 02:57 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Well said.
For those tldr...

Quote:

Josex said:
YMMV





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InvisibleJosex
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: ModularMind]
    #27169224 - 01/25/21 04:18 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Yeah lol sorry I needed to get that shit out of the way since I have a tag now and some newbies do actually use the search function. At the end of the day do what works for you, I try and choose the path of least resistence, best results with the least amount of effort.


Edited by Josex (01/25/21 05:20 PM)


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OfflineDark lotus
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Registered: 11/30/16
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Josex]
    #27170239 - 01/26/21 06:20 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Appreciate the write up, got a shit load of oyster spores inbound so hopefully have some mushroom porn soon.


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OfflineGTEED
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: Dark lotus]
    #27172140 - 01/27/21 04:28 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

That's quite interesting that you are getting a 99% rate at agar transfers. I would have really loved to have seen you're post and could have given it a try before I spent $1000 just about on a flow hood. One of my concerns would be having such a big flame inside of my house though haha. With my luck, I would have a stiff fuel hose that would be hard to keep the burner level on its on and it tip over.


Edited by GTEED (01/28/21 02:06 AM)


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: bunsen burner usage [Re: GTEED]
    #27172143 - 01/27/21 04:37 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

A fh is a hell of a good investment imo and you can do so much stuff in front of it, please don't regret that lol
I can only do so much under the flame and my methods are adapted to work with it. I don't have the need to get a FH right now but I'm sure I won't regret investing in a FFU when the time comes.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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