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InvisibleMOTH
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Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs?
    #2715356 - 05/22/04 07:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, I personally think that maybe it is a dangerous idea to use psychedelic experiences to validate or "prove" to yourself personal belief, but at the same time I cannot completely disregard the things I've experienced on shrooms when it comes to personal belief. Does that make sense?

I guess what I'm asking is, how seriously do you take your psychedelic experiences when it comes to personal belief?


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beli [Re: MOTH]
    #2715385 - 05/22/04 07:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I personally feel that the psychedelic experience of a mushroom trip is an extremely accurate representation of the gestalt of existence...which I think makes it an excellent way to re-align one's beliefs in order to prevent them from 'favoring' any one belief structure or another

so even though I don't believe it's a good way to validate much of anything - I find it the perfect way to break down any beliefs one might have (which may actually be holding em back) and give em the opportunity to re-evaluate everything that they believe, and get rid of anything that no longer needs to be held onto





in essence - it's like the ultimate tool for humility (in my mind anyway)



..........

Thus Spake Muppet


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:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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Invisiblewandrnshaman
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2715396 - 05/22/04 07:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, this is important to me so I want to reply carefully here. I hope this makes sense. :smile:

I take them seriously and not so seriously. Not so seriously, they are a celebration of love, & the brief gifts of life and consciousness. By taking them seriously, profound truths may be uncovered. Its like operating on the soul...

Reality is also unreality. Just like the conscious state of mind understands that there is an unconscious state, truth transcends consciousness into the unconscious state because we know that we sleep and dream. Whether there is an answer for every occurance doesn't mean the occurance is any less important.

Dreams may be a game the brain plays but it is played in the subconscious mind. The subconscious mind is the state of spirit that resides at the spiritual plane. Under psychedelics, the conscious mind slips into the subconscious mind or spiritual plane.

The plane of truth where all spirit exists is heaven, summerlands, god, magick, karma, ego, all of these and none for it is only pure love. We, and everything that is on this plane of existence, are all of these things but sadly, it is rare that we see this except by stepping thru a door of altered perception. 

Each one of us is god/dess because we have the ability to know truth in our hearts. Not an entity in the sky; a being of pure light(love) clouded by consciousness. A line in The Wiccan Rede is '...the master and mistress of magick that dwell in the deep of mind, immortal and ever renewing...' that is god, you. Nothing blasphemous about that, blasphemy is using the power of magick for less than excellent reasons...lemmee get back on track here...

The repressive, mainstream christian religion has no correct concept of 'god'. That god is of man, not love, and exists only because so many give him validity. I see no truth in the christian church but what is in christ because he teaches of the laws of love. 'Love is the law, love under will'-The Wiccan Crede. The Christian churches teach and guide their members along paths leaders once thought critical for society to flourish. That is in error and isn't necessary anymore. In these times, we have the space to come face to face with the spirit within that is love.

  The same spirit exists in every religion but only by looking into your heart do you see the truths left out by others. And often it is only with psychedelics that we are able to see this deeply into our hearts.


Edited by wandrnshaman (05/23/04 04:17 AM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2715434 - 05/22/04 07:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't use my psychedelic experiences as "proof" of my beliefs. I use them as a starting point. I've experienced many things on psychedelics, and some of them make sense to me while others do not. I just use them to find a different way of looking at the world. I've told many people about some of the revelations I've had on psychedelics, and some have told me(though I haven't confirmed it) that many of those beliefs are also supported by theories in Quantum Physics.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2715915 - 05/22/04 09:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I use psychedelics for fun. I do not believe that they are any kind of portal to understanding, either of yourself or the world.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2715946 - 05/22/04 09:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Psychedelics are the "Red Pill" of The Matrix. There is no doubt that the brothers who wrote the story line had this in mind. The Red Pill 'disrupts a carrier wave...,' indeed it does. In the fortunate Experiencer, one's exclusive identification with linear time, cause-effect, materialistic reductionism is radically shifted (to use a Carlos Casteneda concept) into 'non-ordinary reality.' I became 'tuned in' (a la Leary), or attuned to wholey other 'carrier waves' of Reality - a multiplex of perceptions that led back to Mind. My physiology and anatomy had not changed, but the addition of the LSD molecule, though short-lived in my system, turned the 'lenses' of my mind from a 'telescope' into a 'microscope.' The direction of my inquiry appeared to turn from the 'outer' world of the senses to the 'inner' world of consciousness, but I Realized that the Infinitely large and the Infinitely small are the same Infinity, and the qualifiers of large and small disappear in the Light of Infinity.

Although there was no difference between the inner and the outer, it became clear that consciousness had 'ontological priority' over matter. Not my consciousness mind you, but consciousness as the First Cause became shockingly apparent. Our physical bodies, with the most sensitive components being the discrete nervous system, are receiving devices. Ideas are derivative from the Realm of Pure Ideas. I had realized Plato's understanding. When I was a child, I heard the intermittant sound of W-VNJ AM radio - the strongest signal in town and the dominant one on my home-made crystal radio - vibrate audibly from a metal rain gutter on my parent's house where two welded joints had developed an oxide layer and had begun to work like a 'trench radio,' which works with nothing more electronic than a pencil lead on a razor blade and a coil of wire. Less complex than the Germanium diode on my crystal radio. Jump now to the near-infinite complexity of a human brain. Now jump to the 'Idea' of the brain. Lastly...ask Whose Idea it is. This is partly how I jumped from philosophy to theology - and faith.

But before faith, for me, there was gnosis. Gnosis preceded faith - Knowledge in the form of mystical experience, while on psychedelics, allowed me to take scriptural writings seriously. Many different scriptural writings: Upanishads, Vedas, Bhagavad Gita and Bible mostly. My 'personal' task has been to sort out, correlate, integrate, reject, synthesize, and make practical all that I have looked at in all earnestness. These writings and many other are the world's record of religious experiences. I respect many, revere some, and truly relish a few, but my eyes may never have been opened to a spiritual life had I not chosen "The Red Pill." I have made mistakes, but I have never regretted my decision.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMixomatosis
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2715966 - 05/22/04 09:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

mushrooms are awesome, and by awesome I mean totally sweet.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: Mixomatosis]
    #2715973 - 05/22/04 09:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Mixomatosis said:
mushrooms are awesome, and by awesome I mean totally sweet.



New sig material! :smile:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2716017 - 05/22/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

wow, i just realized you have a staggering amount of posts!


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if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: CleverName]
    #2716036 - 05/22/04 10:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You just now figured that out?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2716347 - 05/22/04 11:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Great post!  :thumbup:
I can stop reading now.


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I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: Jellric]
    #2716463 - 05/22/04 11:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblebert
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beli [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #2718048 - 05/23/04 01:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Before I started taking mushrooms I was a devout atheist. Religion disgusted me in every form as well. Through the use of mushrooms, I have become more understanding of 'paranormal' phenomena and a spiritual feeling that I had never encountered before except through deep meditation. These phenomena may not operate in the way that is popularly believed by people in general who haven't taken time to explore their own minds and the manner through which we apprehend reality with our senses. I do think that mushrooms have made me more open-minded for better or worse.

Mushrooms so far have not made me believe anything except that there is more to reality than what we take at sober face value. As far as the effects of the drug itself..I really don't know if it connects us with something that is outside the material realm. However, I do believe psychedelics allow us to take in more information during the experience. This, I believe, allows us process more complex and abstract lines of thought. Granted, if you weren't able to do this before, you probably won't suddenly become T.S. Eliot or Isaac Newton instantly.

Anyways, noone will ever take your tripping experience seriously unless you can beautifully articulate the experience either through poetry, art or possibly through a deeping understanding of the physical workings of the drug through some sort of divinitory experience/analyzation of events. It's definitely an unorthodox method of experimentation but I think in the future, neurobiology may possibly take the psychedelic in a laboratory setting and then be able to directly reference their experience with their vast knowledge base of the human brain/mind. It will be learning through experience that can, in many ways, directly affect and guide research. So...where was I going with all this...oh yah, I guess mushrooms may one day end up validating beliefs but in a different way than maybe you meant it. Right now though, I try to keep my own personal skepticism in place.


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Persons denying the existence of robots may be robots themselves.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beli [Re: bert]
    #2718361 - 05/23/04 03:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

And my use of hallucinogens has done nothing but reaffirm my atheism and disgust for religion


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OfflineMuppet
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beli [Re: bert]
    #2718568 - 05/23/04 03:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's cool that you brought up T.S. Elliot  :thumbup:



I've always thought he never really gets the kinda credit he deserves



..........

Thus Spake Muppet


--------------------


:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2718683 - 05/23/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

several times on hallucinogens, I have had shared hallucinations with others. This leads me to believe that some kind of telepathy is possible.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2718702 - 05/23/04 04:22 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
several times on hallucinogens, I have had shared hallucinations with others. This leads me to believe that some kind of telepathy is possible.



Or perhaps that hallucinogens affect people in a similar manner.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2718732 - 05/23/04 04:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

perhaps, but that isnt normally the case.

usually if three people all take a large amount of LSD, they will all see different things based on their set.

but every now and then, I've seen universal agreement on very vivid, specific, and detailed hallucinations. thats kind of wierd considering that everyone had different psychological makeups, different past experiences, different physiology, etc...

I mean, its not as if the molecule itself causes people to see specific things. That would be cool, if you ate soome loony toons acid and actually saw luny toons. But thats not how it works. The acid has a very basic nuerochemical effect which people's psyches turn into hallucinations. The source of most people's hallucinations is their subconscious mind. The fact that three or four people could all simultaneously have the same hallucination suggests to me that people's minds might be connected at some kind of subconscious level.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: DoctorJ]
    #2719311 - 05/23/04 07:11 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, shared hallucinations are one of the key things that started me asking questions too...

It's like the way people explain away apparitions or 'divine manifestations' of different kinds: "well, those are just collective hallucinations". Just ? Well, *just* explain collective hallucinations for a start...


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: Do you use psychedelic experiences to validate your beliefs? [Re: MOTH]
    #2720848 - 05/24/04 12:19 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

yes. mushrooms slapped me in the face a number of times because I fought them. I learned how to go with the flow.  It is just a new perspective on how life can be viewed.  It definately brought back the awe of being alive for me.  It also showed me that the only real type of love is unconditional.  delusion or not...I like it and think it's an encouraging thought :wink:


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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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