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OfflineRoseM
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Trump Was Bad * 12
    #27150168 - 01/15/21 07:22 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

One of the worst Presidents in history, likely the worst.

He lost the popular vote... twice.

Was impeached twice.

Lost re-election.

Lost the House twice.

Lost the Senate.

Lost his house.

Lost his banks.

Lost his Twitter account.

Lost his attempt at a coup.

Lost his dignity.

Lost his marbles.

We can argue all day about his terrible work as POTUS... but I am going to ignore that for this thread and just focus on his losing record.

He went from The Apprentice to The Biggest Loser in a few short years after promising we would be, “Sick of winning.”

He has lost so much, he is the Queens version of a country song.


--------------------
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 3
    #27150190 - 01/15/21 07:29 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Tremendous loser, the likes of which the world has never seen


--------------------
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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 3
    #27150209 - 01/15/21 07:41 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

One good thing about hitting the absolute bottom, is there is no way to go but up. Just over a year ago, I would not have ever dreamed of casting a vote for Biden, but not doing so would be the antithesis of a civic duty. Pretty sure there will be about 20% that I agree with Biden about but thats a 100% more than Trump, though.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #27150214 - 01/15/21 07:44 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

We haven't hit absolute bottom.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27150219 - 01/15/21 07:48 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Stop freaking me out, trying be positive.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27150221 - 01/15/21 07:50 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Stop freaking me out, trying be positive.




Rose colored glasses time: Mitch McConnell Edition

Holding the impeachment trial until after Trump is out of office might be a great thing.

1. Trump will not be vindicated before leaving office. This hobbles him.

2. Anything he does before leaving office, from firing folks, to pardons will be viewed through the lens of impeachment.

3. More evidence comes out every day.

4. People would be more angry and divided during a trial before Biden’s inauguration.

5. More time to get to 67 votes.

6. Dems will control the trial.

7. Republicans will have less to fear for voting to impeach once Trump is gone from power.

8. Mitch has said he is happy Trump is being impeached and made sure his feelings about impeachment were leaked to multiple sources including Fox.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos] * 3
    #27150226 - 01/15/21 07:52 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

If there's one thing mushrooms taught me, it's that things can always get immensely worse :eek:


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #27150227 - 01/15/21 07:52 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I'm still waiting for the balloons to drop, and for everyone to admit it was a huge practical joke. It's really the only explanation that makes sense.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27150291 - 01/15/21 08:29 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

SkipRenegade said:
T R U M P won.



That you meltdowner? Juat as delusional as ever.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Lynnch]
    #27150302 - 01/15/21 08:31 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

My mom said it was going to cost $500,000 to decontaminate the White House before the Bidens can move in lol


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27150306 - 01/15/21 08:33 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Well yeah, they got melania snail trail all over the nice chairs. Gotta be ghonnorhea from stormy Daniels in that soup


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #27150658 - 01/16/21 12:32 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

started wars, oh wait?!


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheBoJim]
    #27150668 - 01/16/21 12:36 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
started wars, oh wait?!




Civil War 2: TBD


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 3
    #27150679 - 01/16/21 12:48 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

What happened to you so called hippies? Fuck the government, the man, big corp? Power to the people? Peace maaaaaaan!?

Have you actually stepped out and realized what you're supporting?


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheBoJim] * 6
    #27150712 - 01/16/21 01:19 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I would suggest lurking in numerous forums within the shroomery before typecasting it as a lot of hippies.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheBoJim] * 1
    #27150718 - 01/16/21 01:32 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
What happened to you so called hippies? Fuck the government, the man, big corp? Power to the people? Peace maaaaaaan!?

Have you actually stepped out and realized what you're supporting?




A woman that pressed maximum charges and sought maximum sentencing for countless black men to serve as slave labor for a private prison industry on top of fighting to disregard (or did?) evidence that would have freed an innocent man xDxDxD

or another Zionist neoliberal warmonger that's just on the blue team who voted to make student loan debt unavoidable through filing bankruptcy

I'm sure they know



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[


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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27150726 - 01/16/21 01:45 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Quote:

TheBoJim said:
started wars, oh wait?!




Civil War 2: TBD




who vs who? lol


--------------------


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: yeah] * 1
    #27150732 - 01/16/21 01:53 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
Have you actually stepped out and realized what you're supporting?



Yes.
Quote:

yeah said:
I'm sure they know




We know.

This thread is about how trump sucked huge donkey balls. Stay on topic.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheBoJim] * 1
    #27150770 - 01/16/21 03:07 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
What happened to you so called hippies?




I'm right here. I'm as left-wing libertarian as it gets. Anarchy! Fuck the government! Fuck violence! Fuck fascism! Eat mushrooms, go out in nature, listen to King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 2
    #27150779 - 01/16/21 03:19 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
listen to King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard.



Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: PatrickKn]
    #27150785 - 01/16/21 03:41 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
listen to King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard.



Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake. Rattlesnake.



:hellyeah:


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 1
    #27150800 - 01/16/21 03:58 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

He also lost the PGA major tournament that had been scheduled to be played at his golf course in New Jersey. And his former supporter Bill Belichik has declined to accept the Medal of Freedom from him. Due to his distorted sense of priorities, these are probably more important to him than some of the things on your list. But not more important than losing the banks.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #27150831 - 01/16/21 04:44 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I think youre mistaken. Dear Leader won that tournament by sinking 18 hole in ones.


--------------------


Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #27150878 - 01/16/21 05:44 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

He hasn't lost his narcissist ego yet.


--------------------


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OfflineTheStallionMang
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: OutsideOfMyMind] * 1
    #27151179 - 01/16/21 12:14 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

He made sure that 3 people on death row were executed in the last week even though two were mentally deficient and the 3rd wasn't the trigger man in his murder charge...because THAT'S what's important to check off the list in the last week of your presidency!


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27151211 - 01/16/21 12:37 PM (1 month, 15 days ago)

That seems to me more like an impotent tantrum.

Can;t do anything else, so at least he can kill people.


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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27152821 - 01/17/21 08:48 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Tremendous loser, the likes of which the world has never seen


joe biden says here hold my beer whatch this..


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27152850 - 01/17/21 09:11 AM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Good one


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27153150 - 01/17/21 12:16 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
after promising we would be, “Sick of winning.”





But we are, we are completely sick of his brand of winning.


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Invisiblewabbey
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27153615 - 01/17/21 04:23 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Deletion by ballsalsa, reason: spam


Edited by ballsalsa (01/17/21 05:31 PM)


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27155689 - 01/18/21 05:14 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Rose said:
after promising we would be, “Sick of winning.”





But we are, we are completely sick of his brand of winning.




I dunno. I kinda want to see him win himself a prison cell.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27155692 - 01/18/21 05:16 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

I have always been of the opinion that he will never, federal or state. All under the auspices of "healing" the nation, like Ford did for Dick. Yeah, it might come from Joe.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 1
    #27155694 - 01/18/21 05:17 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Tell me, does it feel good to spend all your time & energy hating a man who you've been told to hate for the past 4 years merely because he was not an establishment puppet?

Trump was hardly any worse or any better than any president that came before him, for God's sake.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27155715 - 01/18/21 05:24 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Bullshit, his rhetoric was the most divisive in modern presidential history, in the middle of a pandemic ta boot. Can you show me more frequent and intense rhetoric from, say, Kennedy forward?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27155720 - 01/18/21 05:26 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Okay I'll give you that, Trump was a dumbass and his rhetoric was divisive at times.

But he still killed less people than Obama, and he definitely killed WAY less than GWB. So if we're talking purely in terms of the number of war crimes committed under his leadership, Trump was better than both of them.

And at the end of the day it's the actions that a person should be judged by rather than their words.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 2
    #27155739 - 01/18/21 05:38 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

As long as you don’t count drone strikes or the 400,000 that died while he ignored the pandemic


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155746 - 01/18/21 05:40 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Tell me, does it feel good to spend all your time & energy hating a man who you've been told to hate for the past 4 years merely because he was not an establishment puppet?





Yes. Especially after 1/6. Thanks.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155749 - 01/18/21 05:41 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Okay I'll give you that, Trump was a dumbass and his rhetoric was divisive at times.

But he still killed less people than Obama, and he definitely killed WAY less than GWB. So if we're talking purely in terms of the number of war crimes committed under his leadership, Trump was better than both of them.

And at the end of the day it's the actions that a person should be judged by rather than their words.




If you ignore the 400k+ dead Americans.

But y’all’s team never was good at gauging crowd size.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.



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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27155758 - 01/18/21 05:46 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

I don’t even know what he’s talking about. Donald trump was a psychopath when it comes to killing civilians in war zones, compared to Obama and bush.

It got so bad they stopped reporting the numbers

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27155764 - 01/18/21 05:49 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Even American military deaths started going back up under trump.

Obama was better at nearly everything trump bragged about. Deficit. Jobs. Stock market. Crime. Lol


--------------------
I am a violent pusher of the neo-marxist SJW agenda to destroy society.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27155777 - 01/18/21 05:52 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Okay I'll give you that, Trump was a dumbass and his rhetoric was divisive at times.

But he still killed less people than Obama, and he definitely killed WAY less than GWB. So if we're talking purely in terms of the number of war crimes committed under his leadership, Trump was better than both of them.

And at the end of the day it's the actions that a person should be judged by rather than their words.




If you ignore the 400k+ dead Americans.

But y’all’s team never was good at gauging crowd size.




Highest mortality rate ever recorded in modern times. Nearly 10 per 100,000.


--------------------
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27155782 - 01/18/21 05:56 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

More federal executions in the past six weeks than the previous 60 years.

He literally went on a state sponsored murder spree


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 1
    #27155842 - 01/18/21 06:23 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Okay I'll give you that, Trump was a dumbass and his rhetoric was divisive at times.

But he still killed less people than Obama, and he definitely killed WAY less than GWB. So if we're talking purely in terms of the number of war crimes committed under his leadership, Trump was better than both of them.

And at the end of the day it's the actions that a person should be judged by rather than their words.




If you ignore the 400k+ dead Americans.

But y’all’s team never was good at gauging crowd size.





Those numbers are vastly over-inflated. And what is the average age of death again? 80+?

Ah, but I guess pointing that out makes me an evil Trumper who wants to kill your grandma.

The truth is that COVID has been vastly over-politicized precisely because they hate Trump and would go to any length to blame literally anything on him. Which is also why they deliberately allowed BLM & Antifa to riot and burn shit down for months on end, getting dozens of people killed in the process just so they could blame the violence on Trump, but are now immediately calling the national guard on them now that the election is over.

Hey, remember when Trump said that HCQ was an effective anti-Covid medicine? Yeah, it turned out to be true, except for just one problem - the media went hysterical over it and got it banned in a lot of places merely because Trump said it was good. I wonder, how many people died because they couldn't get access to HCQ when they needed it, all because of the media hysteria and the insanely hypocritical drive to blame literally anything and everything on Trump?

Ah, but don't let facts and logic get in the way. Please continue. I know you can't survive without your 5 minutes of Trump hate or else your brain loses oxygen and you might die. I know how it is.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27155843 - 01/18/21 06:25 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
More federal executions in the past six weeks than the previous 60 years.

He literally went on a state sponsored murder spree





The people being executed were all primarily guilty of both murder and rape. Sometimes just murder alone, but also rape in a lot of cases.

Gee, nothing like raping & murdering someone, only to be defended by Koods just because it was Trump who ordered your execution.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods] * 1
    #27155850 - 01/18/21 06:27 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I don’t even know what he’s talking about. Donald trump was a psychopath when it comes to killing civilians in war zones, compared to Obama and bush.

It got so bad they stopped reporting the numbers

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers




Obama got 10's of thousands of innocent people killed in Libya alone when he ordered a bombing campaign on their nation, totally destroying it and turning it into a third-world shithole run by local islamist warlords in the process.

Nothing Trump did comes anywhere close to something that Obama did in just ONE country. And that's not counting Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, all of which went down under Obama's watch.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27155862 - 01/18/21 06:32 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Talking with you is a waste of time.

Shame. I love political debate but first, we need to agree on things like math, facts, definitions, and reality. Without those agreements, you only serve as a train wreck for discourse.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155867 - 01/18/21 06:33 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Interesting you bring up the average life expectancy.

It went down for the first time ever in the US under Trump.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155884 - 01/18/21 06:43 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

koods said:
More federal executions in the past six weeks than the previous 60 years.

He literally went on a state sponsored murder spree





The people being executed were all primarily guilty of both murder and rape. Sometimes just murder alone, but also rape in a lot of cases.

Gee, nothing like raping & murdering someone, only to be defended by Koods just because it was Trump who ordered your execution.




Trump pardoned a man who commited mass murder.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods] * 1
    #27155901 - 01/18/21 06:47 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Yeah, you're right there. Pardoning the blackwater mercenaries was a bad move.

But Trump isn't that smart. He's still not the evil force of nature that you and Rose claim him to be, though.

If he doesn't pardon some people who actually deserve to be pardoned tomorrow I am gonna be pissed. He needs to pardon Assange as one final Fuck you to the establishment.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155910 - 01/18/21 06:52 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

koods said:
I don’t even know what he’s talking about. Donald trump was a psychopath when it comes to killing civilians in war zones, compared to Obama and bush.

It got so bad they stopped reporting the numbers

https://www.google.com/amp/s/chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers




Obama got 10's of thousands of innocent people killed in Libya alone when he ordered a bombing campaign on their nation, totally destroying it and turning it into a third-world shithole run by local islamist warlords in the process.

Nothing Trump did comes anywhere close to something that Obama did in just ONE country. And that's not counting Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, all of which went down under Obama's watch.




You know that Trump wanted Obama to attack Libya and kill kadaffi right?



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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods] * 1
    #27155915 - 01/18/21 06:56 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Trump advocated for a surgical strike to take out Gaddhafi, not a literal bombing campaign that killed thousands of civilians, thousands of Libyan troops and paved the way for the local jihadists to take over the entire country and hand over the nation's oil supplies to ISIS and other terrorist groups.

But that's exactly what happened under Obama's bombing campaign.

And besides, he didn't actually give the order to carry all of that out. That was entirely Obama.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155944 - 01/18/21 07:12 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

He didn’t give the order he just suggested it and when it went bad lied about it until someone dug up his video. (Which he has now deleted 🤦‍♂️)

If you watch the full video that is apparently gone now he wanted US troops to occupy the oil fields. So no it wasn’t just a surgical strike.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27155947 - 01/18/21 07:13 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

More death: operation warp speed is really operation snail pace.

Everything is a fuck up with trump


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155963 - 01/18/21 07:19 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Trump advocated for a surgical strike to take out Gaddhafi, not a literal bombing campaign that killed thousands of civilians, thousands of Libyan troops and paved the way for the local jihadists to take over the entire country and hand over the nation's oil supplies to ISIS and other terrorist groups.

But that's exactly what happened under Obama's bombing campaign.

And besides, he didn't actually give the order to carry all of that out. That was entirely Obama.




60 Libyans were killed during the NATO campaign.

Remember when trump was president and we killed 300 Russians in four hours in Syria? Crazy right?

That was just months after republicans said Hillary would get us into a war with Russia, yet nobody seems to remember Donald Trump was president when the US military fought and killed more Russians in armed conflict than any president in the past 75 years.


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Edited by koods (01/18/21 07:26 PM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods] * 2
    #27155984 - 01/18/21 07:26 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

300 Russians? lol

I think you mean to say a couple dozen. Also, they weren't regular Russian soldiers, but mercenaries fighting under the Wagner group.

Most of the people killed that day were Syrian. And yes that was horrible, but Trump himself didn't authorize that strike.

Also, you speak of Syria, but it was Obama who originally made the decision to illegally occupy Syrian soil. Trump wanted to leave and only backed out at the last minute because of an insane amount of pressure for him to reverse his decision.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27155993 - 01/18/21 07:36 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Donald trump is the president who sent an occupying force to Syria. Obama sent advisors. Get it straight.

And it wasn’t a couple dozen. Most of those killed were Russians.

Kinda pathetic that you have to lie to make Trump look good. There are more troops in Syria now than when trump took office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.amp.html


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27156000 - 01/18/21 07:42 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Dude, Obama drew a line  in Syria, and backpeddled more then once pissing off alot of war hawks, this was after evidence of massive civilian deaths. In the end, Obama got most chemical weapons out of Syria.  It could have been much worse.

Could it have been done better? Who knows the same presure Obama got, is the same Trump got....there is a whole segment in the MIC that perpetuates war and makes sure the president is scared shitless.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27156005 - 01/18/21 07:47 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Obama wanted to send troops into Syria, but congress said no. When Obama left office, there were 500 US military personnel in Syria. Trump sent 2000 more without getting congress’ permission, and 900 remain today.

When Trump took office there were no US soldiers in Saudi Arabia. Now there are 2500.

I actually think there are slightly more US soldiers in forward operation deployment now than when trump took office.


Edited by koods (01/18/21 07:51 PM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27156012 - 01/18/21 07:53 PM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Trump armed the fuck out of Saudi Arabia despite those weapons sales being banned by congress due to the genocide in Yemen.

trump is just as much a war monger as the rest of them, and
Obama is the only president to reduce troop deployments during his presidency since carter


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27156594 - 01/19/21 03:30 AM (1 month, 13 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Tell me, does it feel good to spend all your time & energy hating a man





No, but it feels good that he'll be fucking off by tomorrow.




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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante] * 1
    #27156945 - 01/19/21 09:42 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

"Bad" is an understatement; He's a sociopathic tyrant closer to Hitler than anyone would have guessed. I thought the comedian holding his head was a little much at the time, but after 4 years of this nightmare if she had really done it, it would've saved us a lot of heartache and terror...


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: STPLSD25]
    #27157042 - 01/19/21 11:00 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I am so happy he is hours away from being replaced, I could get two prostitutes and an 8 ball of cocaine and have them snort it off each others asses while I'm NOT EVEN IN THE ROOM (quit drugs, decent guy, what can you do) :lol:


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: STPLSD25]
    #27157048 - 01/19/21 11:03 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

STPLSD25 said:
"Bad" is an understatement; He's a sociopathic tyrant closer to Hitler than anyone would have guessed. I thought the comedian holding his head was a little much at the time, but after 4 years of this nightmare if she had really done it, it would've saved us a lot of heartache and terror...




Yeah would’ve been dope to turn trump into a martyr and instead be governed by the Christian psycho Mike Pence for 8 years


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27157062 - 01/19/21 11:14 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Him surviving while also imploding the Republican Party was really the best result we could have hoped for. That said, I am curious what another four years would have done. Aside from the raid the capitol and blatant racism (as well as many other things) he may have actually brought the change everybody on the left wanted. Of course he’d do that by being such an epic failure that we’d have to move left. The cost of his failures might not be worth it though.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27157216 - 01/19/21 12:51 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I think you’re overestimating the degree to which the GOP exploded.

McConnell is gonna excise Trump and Biden will welcome the GOP with open arms back to the table (not that they ever left). And then the GOP will have a renewed PR image of decency and patriotic duty, can’t see what harm will come from that.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27157241 - 01/19/21 01:11 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I hate to break it to everyone but both parties in American politics are completely corrupt. The division within this once great nation runs deeper than ever in history. Propaganda is spewed everywhere one looks. I wont claim or act like I know  any answers or solutions all I do know as fact their is a rough road ahead for all Americans as united we stand devided we fall & this nation is devided.
One can only pray to whatever god or gods icons ect that a chang of controlling intrest will somehow unite & bring people together again & be good humans. I am hopefull the American dream is not dead & the regime change can somehow spark that dream for many once again.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Buddaking] * 1
    #27157244 - 01/19/21 01:13 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Thank you for breaking that to me


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27157246 - 01/19/21 01:15 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I think you’re overestimating the degree to which the GOP exploded.

McConnell is gonna excise Trump and Biden will welcome the GOP with open arms back to the table (not that they ever left). And then the GOP will have a renewed PR image of decency and patriotic duty, can’t see what harm will come from that.





I’m not really overestimating as much as I am just enjoying the moment. They’ll be back, no doubt about it.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Buddaking] * 1
    #27157267 - 01/19/21 01:24 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Buddaking said:
I hate to break it to everyone but both parties in American politics are completely corrupt.



Not only are they both completely corrupt, but they are both right-leaning authoritarian parties (with conservatives generally being slightly more authoritarian than liberals).


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27157268 - 01/19/21 01:25 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Thank you for breaking that to me




You beat me to it.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27157350 - 01/19/21 02:04 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Tell me, does it feel good to spend all your time & energy hating a man





No, but it feels good that he'll be fucking off by tomorrow.






Yes, he will be. But the millions of dumbass Americans who followed Trump and who've been "red-pilled" and have come to the inevitable conclusion that the Establishment wants to literally turn them all into obedient little slaves and rape their collective futures aren't going away any time soon.

Ah, but I guess you shouldn't worry about them either because they will all be monitored, traced & potentially imprisoned under our nation's lovely new "domestic terrorist" laws.

But I guess that's cool with you too, along with nuclear war with Russia...

I just don't understand you sometimes. You think nuclear war is an acceptable outcome as long as it means Trump is gone. Or maybe I'm interpreting you wrong. Either way, the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27157375 - 01/19/21 02:15 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I don't remember anyone other than you talking about war with Russia.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27157389 - 01/19/21 02:21 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Asante has made posts about this in some of his other threads in the pub.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27157559 - 01/19/21 03:54 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

This thread purposely avoided that topic. He was bad enough just because he is the Biggest Loser.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27157592 - 01/19/21 04:13 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Asante has made posts about this in some of his other threads in the pub.




What does it have to do with this topic in this thread?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27157740 - 01/19/21 05:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)



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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27157764 - 01/19/21 06:09 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

....dont talk about the lizard people lol


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27157807 - 01/19/21 06:33 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "PRESIDENT" TRUMP ANYMORE.
JUST A FAILED BUSINESSMAN AND ELECTIONS LOSER.

*NOW* AMERICA HAS A SHOT AT BECOMING GREAT AGAIN.
MAYBE EVEN -HALF- AS GREAT AS IT WAS IN 2015.





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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: christopera]
    #27157832 - 01/19/21 06:46 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Him surviving while also imploding the Republican Party was really the best result we could have hoped for. That said, I am curious what another four years would have done. Aside from the raid the capitol and blatant racism (as well as many other things) he may have actually brought the change everybody on the left wanted. Of course he’d do that by being such an epic failure that we’d have to move left. The cost of his failures might not be worth it though.




I think towards the end he was starting to realize that he had, in fact, created a cult of personality. Thing is, it seems Trump was so narcissistic he didn't even realize that he was seriously being worshiped as a god in some corners of the MAGAverse.

If he realized what he had created earlier, we would not have had an election. We would have had WWIII, with the US as the Axis powers.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27158045 - 01/19/21 08:36 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Who else thinks it has been extremely peaceful for the last week not having to listen to Trump's bullshit on Twitter or any other media outlet?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27158069 - 01/19/21 08:45 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)



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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27158079 - 01/19/21 08:50 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

We hit a valley, just wait for Trump's  real gig, The Celebrity Apartheid. It will peak again.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Buddaking]
    #27158085 - 01/19/21 08:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Buddaking said:
I hate to break it to everyone but both parties in American politics are completely corrupt.... will somehow unite & bring people together again & be good humans. I am hopefull the American dream is not dead & the regime change can somehow spark that dream for many once again.




I doubt the division can be healed anymore than  --- remember what President Bush said about bringing Democracy to Iraq, and what a joke that was & is, --it is the same problem here --- (1) you can't raise intelligence, and (2) you can't educate 30% of people quickly and (3) the wealthy & corporations want to stay in power & don't want change.

The worst of the worst may be over as regards Trump, but over all the picture remains very grim, with Covid mutating, vaccine distribution messed up, and Global Warming continuing, IMO. And as you say the US government remains stuck in corruption, and the divisions between both the wealthy & poor, democrats & republicans, remain, and will continue to hamstring any meaningful progress.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: laughingdog]
    #27158411 - 01/19/21 11:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I oft find people who try to, “Both sides” American political debate when one side just tried to ignore election results and storm the heart of American democracy to be a bit too dull to qualify for the title, “Edge Lord.”

May as well just say, “I don’t vote.”


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27158415 - 01/19/21 11:55 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

The heart of democracy? More like the heart of vanity, falseness, corruption, and lies.

AOC is still talking about how she believes half of Congress would have been murdered that day. Really, bitch? How fucking dumb can you possibly be?

Rhetoric like that isn't just stupid, it's enlarging tensions even more by making something out to be way bigger than it actually was.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 2
    #27158417 - 01/19/21 11:58 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Perfect example of why debate with you is a waste of time. You had to change my very statement before you argued against it.

That’s not good faith debate. Just a piss poor attempt at gaslighting on an electric forum.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose] * 3
    #27158428 - 01/20/21 12:08 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

On both maternal and paternal lines I have documented ancestors on the trail of tears. Henderson roles, and old settler rolls, I'm enrolled in Choctaw nation of Oklahoma, I used to be the director for the American Indian Movement chapter of Missouri. I grew up Indian territory of Oklahoma. I can promise you Trump was not anywhere as evil as Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt and several other presidents. He was extreme in the blatant corruption and racism but that's all. Every president is a war criminal and every president has broken treaties with the tribes. Even Obama.

Trump was stupid. But let's not forget we have 500 years of colonialism. 500 years of genocide and slavery. To liken Trump to the worst diminishes the violence of genocide and chattel slavery. We are still here and continue to suffer environmental genocide among so many other daily atrocities. Both black and native still suffer from poverty created by the system regardless of political affiliations or political identity. It's the system and it's design.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Rose]
    #27158462 - 01/20/21 12:29 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Rose said:
Perfect example of why debate with you is a waste of time. You had to change my very statement before you argued against it.

That’s not good faith debate. Just a piss poor attempt at gaslighting on an electric forum.





Gaslighting? Please. I only corrected your statement so that it would come closer to reflecting reality and truth.

Congress has a fucking 15% nationwide approval rating. Your average congressman and/or woman is nothing more than a puppet who has been bought and paid for by your local corporate lobbyist and who's votes as well as viewpoints are offered up to the highest bidder, and this very simple fact is reflected in their dogshit approval rating, which is less than one third of Donald Trump's.

These people don't even represent the people. They represent their millionaire & billionaire corporate donors. America can hardly even be called a democracy at this point, but rather a corporate oligarchy where one person represents one vote only in practice, but the reality is that one dollar = one vote.

It's a testament to the brainwashing, and division that the elite have so successfully perpetrated on the people they rule over that when one subset of the population finally makes their voices heard and demand that our "duly elected" representatives actually answer to the people for once, they are instantly derided and condemned by the other half of the population, who are now protecting the elite and protecting the corporate oligarchy and their various puppets in the process.

Everyone in this country should be mad as hell with Congress, regardless of their political beliefs or whether they're on the right or the left because Congress has been selling them all out to the highest bidder for decades, long before most of us were even born.

Congress is afraid of the people they rule over because they fear having to answer for their corruption, for their lies, and for the crimes they have committed on the behalf of their corporate overlords who own them, and from whom they get their fattest financial kickbacks, kickbacks they get in exchange for selling out the lives of their constituents.

Congress is a pathetic joke. And yeah, maybe literally storming the building was a bit much. But guess what - all these people wanted was for their voices to be heard. The idea that these people were looking to do physical harm to members of Congress is totally false, a lie being perpetrated by the media to divide the people even more. It's not their fault shit finally reached a boiling point.

The country could change for the better, forever, if the people united as One to overcome the petty division and unite against these fucking thieves pillaging the country. Which is exactly why anyone continuing to oppose them will continue to be labeled as "domestic terrorists", "white supremacists" and the like. To keep the people divided and prevent them from uniting. And people like you will fall for it every time.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ivey77]
    #27158465 - 01/20/21 12:29 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

ivey77 said:
On both maternal and paternal lines I have documented ancestors on the trail of tears. Henderson roles, and old settler rolls, I'm enrolled in Choctaw nation of Oklahoma, I used to be the director for the American Indian Movement chapter of Missouri. I grew up Indian territory of Oklahoma. I can promise you Trump was not anywhere as evil as Jackson, Theodore Roosevelt and several other presidents. He was extreme in the blatant corruption and racism but that's all. Every president is a war criminal and every president has broken treaties with the tribes. Even Obama.

Trump was stupid. But let's not forget we have 500 years of colonialism. 500 years of genocide and slavery. To liken Trump to the worst diminishes the violence of genocide and chattel slavery. We are still here and continue to suffer environmental genocide among so many other daily atrocities. Both black and native still suffer from poverty created by the system regardless of political affiliations or political identity. It's the system and it's design.




It is a ridiculously narrow political point I am making here, as your broader point is quite valid, and many other Presidents have overseen massive death counts on other continents.

Where Trump stands alone, is he has attacked and waged war on the very democracy a plurality of his own voting citizens chose within his country’s current boarders, while ignoring a pandemic. That is treasonous (if not legally treason) in a way past Presidents have never behaved.

Jackson may take the cake as the most evil president in US history... Trump is being measured differently. He was flaccid. Ineffective. Bad. The worst ever. Jackson was far, FAR more effective, which is why his evil resonates to this day.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27158468 - 01/20/21 12:31 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Comrade.....I'm an indigenous anarchist. Fuck this government and it's teams


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ivey77]
    #27158494 - 01/20/21 12:53 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I think it is important to make the distinction between someone who is as evil as their time and someone who is evil even for their time. Jackson was the former while Trumpy is the latter


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27158500 - 01/20/21 01:01 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I'm too high to break down how absolutely stupid the idea that evil is somehow lessened because of the passing of time. There are stories of my family unable to bury the dead that dropped on frozen ground as they walked.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ivey77]
    #27158515 - 01/20/21 01:17 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Its the scale of immediacy and reflection. After 9/11, no jokes were deamed acceptable..... 20 years down the road, and there are knee slappers and memes galore.

Would a Native American be more offended by a 20 dollar bill today, or when it was put in circulation? Time does fade the sting, as the reverberations are not as intense as when they occured.

Edit: Harriet Tubman will replace Jackson in 2028 (finally)


Edited by SirTripAlot (01/20/21 01:18 AM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ivey77]
    #27158604 - 01/20/21 02:56 AM (1 month, 12 days ago)

That s good, because I'm too high to break down how dumb someone would have to be to think that was my point.  If you would care to understand what I was saying, I'll explain it to you but if you're just here to clutch pearls and measure oppression dicks then we can leave it at that.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: laughingdog]
    #27158860 - 01/20/21 09:16 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

Buddaking said:
I hate to break it to everyone but both parties in American politics are completely corrupt.... will somehow unite & bring people together again & be good humans. I am hopefull the American dream is not dead & the regime change can somehow spark that dream for many once again.




I doubt the division can be healed anymore than  --- remember what President Bush said about bringing Democracy to Iraq, and what a joke that was & is, --it is the same problem here --- (1) you can't raise intelligence, and (2) you can't educate 30% of people quickly and (3) the wealthy & corporations want to stay in power & don't want change.

The worst of the worst may be over as regards Trump, but over all the picture remains very grim, with Covid mutating, vaccine distribution messed up, and Global Warming continuing, IMO. And as you say the US government remains stuck in corruption, and the divisions between both the wealthy & poor, democrats & republicans, remain, and will continue to hamstring any meaningful progress.




The bringing democracy to Iraq line reminded me of when we were going to bring women's rights to Afghanistan. I think the strategy there was that it would be more plausible than brining women's rights to Saudi Arabia.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ivey77] * 1
    #27159058 - 01/20/21 11:19 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

ivey77 said:
I'm too high to break down how absolutely stupid the idea that evil is somehow lessened because of the passing of time. There are stories of my family unable to bury the dead that dropped on frozen ground as they walked.



You're also too high to understand the conversation you're participating in. 

Balls point, which is correct, is that moral norms of today are very different from moral norms of yesteryear.  You are saying that we have 500 years of oppression, but if you want to be honest, we have thousands of years of oppression.  Oppression has been the way for a long, long time. 

The only reason you have the luxury of crying about it today is because the social norms allow you to.  Every generation can always look back and point out the "evil" of previous generations.  That's neither helpful nor interesting. 

The moral progress of the human race is intrinsically tied to the knowledge gained over time. Calling our forebears "evil" for being consistent with their society's moral code is no more logically sound than calling them stupid for not building computers.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27159083 - 01/20/21 11:32 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I think it is important to make the distinction between someone who is as evil as their time and someone who is evil even for their time. Jackson was the former while Trumpy is the latter




I think trump is the former. He didn’t govern all that different from Obama or bush, he just said the quiet part out loud too often.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27159095 - 01/20/21 11:38 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Ya know, you dont need to stand for the national athem at home, E.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27159908 - 01/20/21 06:45 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

chopstick said:
Tell me, does it feel good to spend all your time & energy hating a man





No, but it feels good that he'll be fucking off by tomorrow.






Yes, he will be. But the millions of dumbass Americans who followed Trump and who've been "red-pilled" and have come to the inevitable conclusion that the Establishment wants to literally turn them all into obedient little slaves and rape their collective futures aren't going away any time soon.

Ah, but I guess you shouldn't worry about them either because they will all be monitored, traced & potentially imprisoned under our nation's lovely new "domestic terrorist" laws.

But I guess that's cool with you too, along with nuclear war with Russia...

I just don't understand you sometimes. You think nuclear war is an acceptable outcome as long as it means Trump is gone. Or maybe I'm interpreting you wrong. Either way, the cognitive dissonance is overwhelming.



I love when they act all high and mighty like as if they figured out something nobody else has lol


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
    #27159913 - 01/20/21 06:47 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Nuclear war is not only acceptable but desirable, IMO.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27159933 - 01/20/21 06:57 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

And why would nuclear war be a good thing for the planet, Enlil?

I am genuinely curious. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the same guy who has also said that lying is okay when it benefits your agenda (and so is paid shilling) would be pro-nuclear war, but I am, nevertheless, curious.

How could it possibly be desirable?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27159940 - 01/20/21 06:59 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

wildlife is doing great around the chernobyl disaster area. think about that


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27159946 - 01/20/21 07:01 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

It would solve all the human problems in the world.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27159977 - 01/20/21 07:15 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

chopstick said:
And why would nuclear war be a good thing for the planet, Enlil?



Who said anything about the planet?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27159981 - 01/20/21 07:17 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

You are avoiding the question. C'mon, man, I wanna know!


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27159985 - 01/20/21 07:19 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

You talk just to hear yourself talk.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick]
    #27159992 - 01/20/21 07:20 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

It likely saved lives. It certainly saved lives on the winning side.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27159994 - 01/20/21 07:21 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Nuclear war would cause a mass depopulation of the planet.  Something would survive, though.  Ultimately, life would continue and there's a chance that it wouldn't be as fucked up as it is now.  Humans aren't going to fix this mess voluntarily, after all.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27160041 - 01/20/21 07:45 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Well, I suppose that's a reasonable take.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27160675 - 01/21/21 06:18 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Humans aren't going to fix this mess voluntarily, after all.




the majority of humanity has no role in making the mess though.

we need a paradigm shift where we start taking our role of stewards of the world seriously.


"Stewardship is an ethic that embodies the responsible planning and management of resources. The concepts of stewardship can be applied to the environment and nature,[1][2][3] economics,[4][5] health,[6] property,[7] information,[8] theology,[9] cultural resources etc. "


We are not overpopulated, we just get to stop shitting where we eat.

If you look how many resources are wasted, we are running the world on maybe 1% efficiency.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27160783 - 01/21/21 09:09 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

No role?  That's a bit naive, don't you think?  Certainly, there are people who have a larger role than others, but to claim that the majority has no role whatsoever is simply false.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27160873 - 01/21/21 10:22 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

The 8 wealthiest people have more wealth than the poorest half of the world population.

not everybody takes the car to get a coffee at Starbucks.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27160998 - 01/21/21 11:24 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Most americans/canadians do, but that's because zoning regulations in North America are fucked up and historically controlled by car and gas companies.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27161054 - 01/21/21 11:57 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Wealth isn't really directly related to resources when one considers that most wealth is numbers on a ledger


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161057 - 01/21/21 12:00 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

So are most resources.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27161095 - 01/21/21 12:17 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Nah.  Numbers on a ledger aren't resources.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161149 - 01/21/21 12:48 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Wouldnt everyone's "minor role"(like contributing to global warming) be bigger in summation than the few at the top? Take for instance, food waste. The entire middle and lower class, wastes more food collectively, then the top 10% just by the sheer number.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27161200 - 01/21/21 01:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

depends on how you define "waste," I suppose.  I mean there are plenty of people on the planet who don't eat enough, so there's no wasted food with them.

This isn't really about waste as much as it's about resource scarcity.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27161203 - 01/21/21 01:28 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

All air pollution by consumers combined (like car exhaust) makes up a tiny fraction of the whole. It's still a good idea to turn off the lights when you leave and run the AC as little as you can stand, but these personal responsibility choices are largely unimportant and are used to shift the blame away from the largest polluters.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161209 - 01/21/21 01:32 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I don’t believe that for a second. Transportation is the number one contributor to greenhouse gases, and the number one source of particle pollution.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161221 - 01/21/21 01:37 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)



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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161235 - 01/21/21 01:46 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
All air pollution by consumers combined (like car exhaust) makes up a tiny fraction of the whole. It's still a good idea to turn off the lights when you leave and run the AC as little as you can stand, but these personal responsibility choices are largely unimportant and are used to shift the blame away from the largest polluters.



Even if that were true, and it isn't, consumer air pollution includes the pollution created to make the goods that consumers consume.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161236 - 01/21/21 01:46 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Now do the untied states

Consumers are BY FAR the largest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.

In US, industry accounts for 22%. The rest is people burning gas and oil for heat, electricity to run their appliances, grow their food on farms, and cars and planes to get around and ship bottles of water from Fiji. If anything, industry has done a much better job at reducing emissions than consumers like
Yourself that say “hey, who cares what I do, it’s the other guy’s fault”


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161249 - 01/21/21 01:52 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Automobiles are the number one non-natural source of particulate pollution in the US.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161253 - 01/21/21 01:53 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I can't agree with that.  Automobiles are natural.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161263 - 01/21/21 01:58 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Consumers aren't offered a choice in how green than process of manufacturing consumer products are, for the most part, otherwise I might be able to agree with you


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161267 - 01/21/21 01:59 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

China just set a goal to make 20% of its car sales electric vehicles in 2025. They have a very polluted country, but at least they're working on it. We give up completely whenever Republicans are running things.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161279 - 01/21/21 02:01 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Consumers aren't offered a choice in how green than process of manufacturing consumer products are, for the most part, otherwise I might be able to agree with you



They have a choice in what they consume, though.  Last I checked, there's no one out there forcing people to buy a new car every few years...


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161280 - 01/21/21 02:02 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

The untied states would be interesting as a concept, but in all seriousness, re-read my post that sparked this exchange and then come back and show me where I said "hey, who cares what I do, it’s the other guy’s fault”. Failing that, you are welcome to admit that you lied about me and apologize.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161294 - 01/21/21 02:06 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I knew you would say that but we both know that many consumer products are "necessary" to succeed in our society now. Show me a green smartphone and I'll buy it.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161306 - 01/21/21 02:09 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

If you count a smartphone as one of those necessary things, we're never going to agree on any of this.  My point from the beginning was that there aren't enough resources for the population of the planet.  I mean there aren't enough to give people clean water, food, and sanitation. Meanwhile, you're talking about smartphones.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161315 - 01/21/21 02:13 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I put necessary in quotes for a reason but you already know that I absolutely reject the premise that the aren't enough resources on earth to support the current population


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Edited by ballsalsa (01/21/21 02:15 PM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161319 - 01/21/21 02:14 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I know....to distance yourself from the absurdity of your position.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161323 - 01/21/21 02:16 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

No, to signify that while I don't personally like the idea, it is difficult even to panhandle for a living in the US without a damned smartphone


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161327 - 01/21/21 02:17 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yeah, but this is why we need the nuclear holocaust.  Smartphones will become irrelevant.  Reset this shit and let the next thing happen.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161344 - 01/21/21 02:21 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Meh, the human story is one of overcoming scarcity and getting gradually better at doing it. I don't see any indication that we've become collectively worse at that. Our deficiency is in resource allocation and the stewardship that Asante mentioned.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161348 - 01/21/21 02:23 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

We're getting better at it, but not quickly enough.  Also, overcoming scarcity has generally meant increasing greenhouse gas output and generally fucking the planet up.

Do you sincerely believe that humans are going to find meaningful solutions for these problems before the problems become apocalyptic? 


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161356 - 01/21/21 02:27 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I think the chance is better than 30%
We're already pot-committed on the nut flush draw.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161368 - 01/21/21 02:35 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

An optimist.  That's fine and all, but I put doom on a made boat already.  IMO, we're drawing dead.  I say it's time to fold and let the earth deal another hand.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161376 - 01/21/21 02:41 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I mean, this last election cycle felt like the board pairing on the turn but I'm game to see the river. I don't see the downside. We can fuck things up until they are apocalyptic, we can fix our fuck ups, or we can blow the place to hell which is functionally similar to the first option. What's the upside to checking out?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161386 - 01/21/21 02:44 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yes. We all know what an exponential curve looks like, and that's what we got with the climate. Anything we do now can only slow down the inevitable a bit.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161387 - 01/21/21 02:44 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Cut your losses.  Minimize the suffering.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161392 - 01/21/21 02:48 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

You think that there will be less suffering with whatever comes after? Life is suffering.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161400 - 01/21/21 02:52 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Yes, it is.  What I'm suggesting will end a lot of lives AND prevent many others from starting in the first place.  That will undeniably mean less suffering.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161408 - 01/21/21 02:54 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Only if we make the distinction between human lives and others and only for an unknown but certainly temporary period of time.
A fleeting change in degree, not in kind


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161414 - 01/21/21 02:57 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I get it, bro.  You're clinging to a desperate hope for survival.  I'm past that and looking forward to the sweet silence of oblivion.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161419 - 01/21/21 03:01 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I could go either way, it's just that I always see cards before I call for more chips, ya dig?

Btw, I made it in the money and chopped for 3rd in that tourney that I was dealt a royal in


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161492 - 01/21/21 03:35 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I put necessary in quotes for a reason but you already know that I absolutely reject the premise that the aren't enough resources on earth to support the current population




Peak phosphorus bro


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161511 - 01/21/21 03:44 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Phosphorus has a limited ability to cycle back to land via fish migrations etc. and ocean harvests. This could be promoted intentionally if people tried. Tons of human and animal waste could be harvested much more efficiently as well. Mineral salts are not the only way just because they've been popular for 100 years


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161521 - 01/21/21 03:47 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Mass mining of phosphate is the only way to support 8 billion people.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161533 - 01/21/21 03:52 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Bruh, there are new technologies for passively collecting uranium from sea water that are proven and being adapted to industrial scale already. Mining is going to become obsolete for most metals soon. They can figure out how to grab some phosphate when it comes down to that

Edit: I also reject the premise itself, as stated in my previous post


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Edited by ballsalsa (01/21/21 03:53 PM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161589 - 01/21/21 04:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I get it, bro.  You're clinging to a desperate hope for survival.  I'm past that and looking forward to the sweet silence of oblivion.



I'm just at the point where I'm committed to making art, doing the things I enjoy, and forming meaningful relationships with people while I still can. If humans face extinction (whether by a shift in the climate or by nuclear holocaust), then so be it. Nothing in this universe lasts forever, and the survival of our species is no exception to that.

My plan is to just roll with the waves and do my best to accept death when he comes knocking at my door.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161684 - 01/21/21 05:05 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

"My car is breaking down, therefore my plan is to drive it into a wall at 80 mph. I will likely die in the process, but there is a slim probability that -if I get the angle just right- the alternator will fix itself."

Can we at least try eugenics before jumping straight to nuclear suicide?


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Lynnch]
    #27161698 - 01/21/21 05:10 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Again?  How many times do we have to try eugenics before we realize it doesn't work?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161707 - 01/21/21 05:13 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It definitely works, compared to nuclear holocaust.

Doesn't work as well as other possible solutions, but if we're limiting it to two options, I think eugenics is more likely to succeed.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27161716 - 01/21/21 05:15 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It doesn't, though.  It doesn't fix the core problem that humans are fucked up.  We need to mass depopulate and we need it soon.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161724 - 01/21/21 05:17 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

If only Covid would mutate faster.


--------------------
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27161737 - 01/21/21 05:20 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

It should be noted that my idea of eugenics is that we all just fuck a lot, instead of going to work or whatever the hell  we've been doing.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161747 - 01/21/21 05:23 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah, but this is why we need the nuclear holocaust.  Smartphones will become irrelevant.  Reset this shit and let the next thing happen.





Nuclear war isn't as effective, and as green, as a bioweapon.

With bioweapon technologies becoming increasingly available to the common man we're getting closer to the era where you can brew mescaline from apple juice and release of home made bio weapons to target the general populace, or a genetically distinct subset thereof.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Lynnch]
    #27161753 - 01/21/21 05:24 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Maybe the one child policy was the greatest accomplishment of the 20th century.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27161755 - 01/21/21 05:24 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If only Covid would mutate faster.





the more people get it, and they will, the faster it will mutate.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27161757 - 01/21/21 05:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

I get that, but the effort to develop that is much more than the effort it would take to get two superpowers crazy about attacking each other with currently available weapons.

Why you gotta shit on my dream, bro?


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161772 - 01/21/21 05:32 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

You know when I worry? When my spirit guide asks me to hook up my tv again :smile:

I always wanted to see a megaton explosion IRL too, but at a test site, not all the way around.

If our fate is to die for the sake of further evolution, I think it will be through disease.

I'm not sure nuclear war would effecively wipe out humanity.

If the US, Russia, China, the UK and France would have their fiësta, Africa nor South America nor Australia would even be hit.

Not shitting on your dream, just thinking practically about it.

Having a megaton nuke go off over my city with me almost directly underneath it is incidentally one of my preferred ways to go.

Instantaneous severing of all molecular bonds of my body.

ahh bliss.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27162243 - 01/21/21 09:33 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

The Chinese do everything better including capitalism


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Edited by koods (01/21/21 09:33 PM)


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods] * 2
    #27162250 - 01/21/21 09:34 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

In China, if you lose 20 billion, you get shot.

In America, if you lose 20 billion, the government gives you another 20 billion.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27162251 - 01/21/21 09:35 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

While treating thier citizens like 1984 shit, it truely is a feat.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
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And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Asante]
    #27162253 - 01/21/21 09:36 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If only Covid would mutate faster.





the more people get it, and they will, the faster it will mutate.




There’s not much chance mutations within the human population will result in a more virulent virus


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27162265 - 01/21/21 09:38 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Should trend the other way but there is an element of randomness

The shit seems to jump fairly easily between a variety of mammals. This could cause problems.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27163617 - 01/22/21 03:56 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
If only Covid would mutate faster.





the more people get it, and they will, the faster it will mutate.




There’s not much chance mutations within the human population will result in a more virulent virus




Exact opposite. Mutations within humans will tend to make the virus more virulent, but less deadly.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27163623 - 01/22/21 03:59 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

That doesn’t make sense.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27163630 - 01/22/21 04:02 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Virulent can mean infectious as well as debilitating.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: falcon]
    #27163637 - 01/22/21 04:04 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

no


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27163652 - 01/22/21 04:10 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

In the context of this pandemic it don't seem right, but previous to Covid-19  I've heard it used that way.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: falcon]
    #27163675 - 01/22/21 04:20 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Viruses are designed to replicate and expand.

Killing the host is directly antithetical to that, and becoming less transmissible is directly antithetical to that. That's why Ebola wasn't really a big issue back when it had a 95% mortality rate: Everybody that got sick dies too quickly to spread the virus. The Ebola outbreak a little while back only had like a 40% mortality rate, which is why it suddenly became a big deal. Instead of immediately wiping out a family or a village, carriers survived longer and spread the disease further.

Over time, viruses that are limited to a single organism evolve to be more transmissible and less deadly.

Part of the danger with zoonotic viruses is that the native host (bats for covid) might be fairly resistant to the virus itself, making them excellent vectors for transmission, while us humans don't have a built up resistance to the virus yet, and die in large numbers.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Kryptos]
    #27163698 - 01/22/21 04:35 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Virulence refers to the level of pathology caused by a virus (or any diseases causing agent or poison)

Infectivity refers to the ability of a virus to cause infection


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27163703 - 01/22/21 04:38 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Reports now that the U.K. strain is 70% more infectious and 30% more virulent


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27163877 - 01/22/21 06:02 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I think that was what the poster was trying to say. It has evolved to infect more readily.

And being a virus, it will likely evolve around the vaccine and need an annual COVID vaccine like a flu shot.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: TheBoJim]
    #27166128 - 01/23/21 10:21 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I sit back and wonder that too!


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27166606 - 01/24/21 06:20 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Virulence refers to the level of pathology caused by a virus (or any diseases causing agent or poison)

Infectivity refers to the ability of a virus to cause infection





yup

Quote:

vir•u•lent vîr′yə-lənt, vîr′ə-►

    adj.
    Characterized by, causing, or promoting the rapid onset of severe illness. Used of a disease or toxin.
    adj.
    Capable of causing disease by aggressively interfering with the immune system of the host. Used of a pathogen.





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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27166620 - 01/24/21 06:49 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The Chinese do everything better including capitalism


that is because china is a far superior country to America. Most Americans are lazy cry babys who think the world owes then everything. Then our leaders are weak old white dudes who should be in a nursing home. It dont help there is more racism in America than any other place in the world.

I pray to god America gets ivaded by China it would be the best thing to ever happen to this poor country.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: SirTripAlot] * 1
    #27166621 - 01/24/21 06:50 AM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
While treating thier citizens like 1984 shit, it truely is a feat.




The reason they are doing so good is because they only treat a relatively small number of their citizens that bad. But yeah, you definitely don't want to be on that list.

A lot of their compliance is voluntary. In grad school the other foreign students were staying here. The Chinese were going back to help the country. They were very up front that they were heavily questioned whenever they went home, especially if they were in technical fields, which was nearly all of them.

From what I've been reading Xi is changing course, moving away from China the money machine towards more retrenched Maoism. I read that in the Wall Street Journal so it may be more propaganda than fact. But either way, compared to the West, China is an autocracy. It's also a bit scary as their success makes them a model for other countries.


--------------------
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