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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161221 - 01/21/21 12:37 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)



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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161235 - 01/21/21 12:46 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
All air pollution by consumers combined (like car exhaust) makes up a tiny fraction of the whole. It's still a good idea to turn off the lights when you leave and run the AC as little as you can stand, but these personal responsibility choices are largely unimportant and are used to shift the blame away from the largest polluters.



Even if that were true, and it isn't, consumer air pollution includes the pollution created to make the goods that consumers consume.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161236 - 01/21/21 12:46 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Now do the untied states

Consumers are BY FAR the largest contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.

In US, industry accounts for 22%. The rest is people burning gas and oil for heat, electricity to run their appliances, grow their food on farms, and cars and planes to get around and ship bottles of water from Fiji. If anything, industry has done a much better job at reducing emissions than consumers like
Yourself that say “hey, who cares what I do, it’s the other guy’s fault”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161249 - 01/21/21 12:52 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Automobiles are the number one non-natural source of particulate pollution in the US.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161253 - 01/21/21 12:53 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I can't agree with that.  Automobiles are natural.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161263 - 01/21/21 12:58 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Consumers aren't offered a choice in how green than process of manufacturing consumer products are, for the most part, otherwise I might be able to agree with you


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161267 - 01/21/21 12:59 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

China just set a goal to make 20% of its car sales electric vehicles in 2025. They have a very polluted country, but at least they're working on it. We give up completely whenever Republicans are running things.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161279 - 01/21/21 01:01 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Consumers aren't offered a choice in how green than process of manufacturing consumer products are, for the most part, otherwise I might be able to agree with you



They have a choice in what they consume, though.  Last I checked, there's no one out there forcing people to buy a new car every few years...


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: koods]
    #27161280 - 01/21/21 01:02 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

The untied states would be interesting as a concept, but in all seriousness, re-read my post that sparked this exchange and then come back and show me where I said "hey, who cares what I do, it’s the other guy’s fault”. Failing that, you are welcome to admit that you lied about me and apologize.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161294 - 01/21/21 01:06 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I knew you would say that but we both know that many consumer products are "necessary" to succeed in our society now. Show me a green smartphone and I'll buy it.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161306 - 01/21/21 01:09 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

If you count a smartphone as one of those necessary things, we're never going to agree on any of this.  My point from the beginning was that there aren't enough resources for the population of the planet.  I mean there aren't enough to give people clean water, food, and sanitation. Meanwhile, you're talking about smartphones.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161315 - 01/21/21 01:13 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I put necessary in quotes for a reason but you already know that I absolutely reject the premise that the aren't enough resources on earth to support the current population


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Edited by ballsalsa (01/21/21 01:15 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161319 - 01/21/21 01:14 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I know....to distance yourself from the absurdity of your position.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161323 - 01/21/21 01:16 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

No, to signify that while I don't personally like the idea, it is difficult even to panhandle for a living in the US without a damned smartphone


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161327 - 01/21/21 01:17 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Yeah, but this is why we need the nuclear holocaust.  Smartphones will become irrelevant.  Reset this shit and let the next thing happen.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161344 - 01/21/21 01:21 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Meh, the human story is one of overcoming scarcity and getting gradually better at doing it. I don't see any indication that we've become collectively worse at that. Our deficiency is in resource allocation and the stewardship that Asante mentioned.


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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27161348 - 01/21/21 01:23 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

We're getting better at it, but not quickly enough.  Also, overcoming scarcity has generally meant increasing greenhouse gas output and generally fucking the planet up.

Do you sincerely believe that humans are going to find meaningful solutions for these problems before the problems become apocalyptic? 


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161356 - 01/21/21 01:27 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I think the chance is better than 30%
We're already pot-committed on the nut flush draw.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27161368 - 01/21/21 01:35 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

An optimist.  That's fine and all, but I put doom on a made boat already.  IMO, we're drawing dead.  I say it's time to fold and let the earth deal another hand.


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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Trump Was Bad [Re: Enlil]
    #27161376 - 01/21/21 01:41 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

I mean, this last election cycle felt like the board pairing on the turn but I'm game to see the river. I don't see the downside. We can fuck things up until they are apocalyptic, we can fix our fuck ups, or we can blow the place to hell which is functionally similar to the first option. What's the upside to checking out?


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