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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #27146747 - 01/14/21 12:18 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I don't understand what's so mysterious about the reality that the owners of proprietary platforms can allow or disallow whatever speech they wish. It makes sense to me. :shrug:



I think fascist-sympathizers are the main ones making a big fuss about it because they don't like seeing their fascist talkboxes deplatformed.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27146752 - 01/14/21 12:22 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

What's the big deal?  There are still tons of them out there.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: christopera] * 4
    #27146755 - 01/14/21 12:28 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Big Tech has big money to buy massive influence over the political system (both parties). We now have monopolies that government no longer has the power to regulate because Big Tech/Big Money regulates the government more than the other way around. This is called corporate fascism and it's too late to turn that ship around in my opinion.

The ironic aspect of this whole situation was that conservatives always thought progressive/socialists were the greatest threat to free market capitalism, they never thought it was going to be Big Business that destroyed the market place.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: qman]
    #27146757 - 01/14/21 12:30 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
The ironic aspect of this whole situation was that conservatives always thought progressive/socialists were the greatest threat to free market capitalism, they never thought it was going to be Big Business that destroyed the market place.



Color me completely unsurprised.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27146760 - 01/14/21 12:33 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I don't understand what's so mysterious about the reality that the owners of proprietary platforms can allow or disallow whatever speech they wish. It makes sense to me. :shrug:



I think fascist-sympathizers are the main ones making a big fuss about it because they don't like seeing their fascist talkboxes deplatformed.




I think someone can despise platforming fascist concepts and still find the Big Tech influence over government highly problematic. BTW, there's many on The Left that aren't comfortable with the status quo with social media. Just because it's not affecting certain groups and ideas at this point, it doesn't mean it won't in the future.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146761 - 01/14/21 12:33 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
So you are in favor of compelled speech if the company has a monopoly?



Again, Parler got shut down, so what are the alternatives?  I guess the Russian made Telegram Messenger is the place to go for free speech now.



Is that a yes?



Yes.  The Government can, and has, regulated monopolies to protect the interests of consumers.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: qman]
    #27146766 - 01/14/21 12:36 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
I think someone can despise platforming fascist concepts and still find the Big Tech influence over government highly problematic. BTW, there's many on The Left that aren't comfortable with the status quo with social media. Just because it's not affecting certain groups and ideas at this point, it doesn't mean it won't in the future.



I agree. I think it's consistent to both recognize the issues with the technology sector's influence over the government while also believing we ought to do something about fascism on the Internet.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146769 - 01/14/21 12:38 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Okay, so if someone wants to use twitter to bash twitter and advertise for a competing product, twitter should be forced to send that message out to millions of people?

If someone wants to post the names, addresses, social security numbers, and birthdates of every family member of every employee of twitter, should twitter be forced to publish that information?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146788 - 01/14/21 12:49 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Okay, so if someone wants to use twitter to bash twitter and advertise for a competing product, twitter should be forced to send that message out to millions of people?

If someone wants to post the names, addresses, social security numbers, and birthdates of every family member of every employee of twitter, should twitter be forced to publish that information?



Let's start with Facebook, since there's a stronger argument they have monopoly power (the House Antitrust Subcommittee report).

Of course Facebook should be allowed to ban ads as they wish - that's something different.  I was talking about if I made a post on Facebook saying I think Facebook sucks, I think they should have to keep it because a) their monopoly position, and b) I personally see their removal of my post as censorship, not free speech.  Yes, I know we disagree on b, so let's ignore b and focus on a.  Well we also disagree on a, but I have a House Antitrust Subcommittee report in my favor.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146845 - 01/14/21 01:24 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Just to be clear.. are you saying that Facebook shouldn't be able to block/ban/censor terrorist groups from planning/promoting/recruiting on their site?

I don't think facebook bothers to censor people for saying facebook sucks. They're way too busy banning people for stalking and threatening their neighbors...And I kinda feel like they have the right and interest in banning/blocking/censoring groups planning to storm facebook hq and execute everyone.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146847 - 01/14/21 01:28 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Okay, so if someone wants to use twitter to bash twitter and advertise for a competing product, twitter should be forced to send that message out to millions of people?

If someone wants to post the names, addresses, social security numbers, and birthdates of every family member of every employee of twitter, should twitter be forced to publish that information?



Let's start with Facebook, since there's a stronger argument they have monopoly power (the House Antitrust Subcommittee report).

Of course Facebook should be allowed to ban ads as they wish - that's something different.  I was talking about if I made a post on Facebook saying I think Facebook sucks, I think they should have to keep it because a) their monopoly position, and b) I personally see their removal of my post as censorship, not free speech.  Yes, I know we disagree on b, so let's ignore b and focus on a.  Well we also disagree on a, but I have a House Antitrust Subcommittee report in my favor.




Antitrust laws aren’t about free speech they’re about anti-competitive advantages


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Lynnch]
    #27146877 - 01/14/21 01:58 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Just to be clear.. are you saying that Facebook shouldn't be able to block/ban/censor terrorist groups from planning/promoting/recruiting on their site?



What?  I've said many, many times that they should be able to censor promotion of violence.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27146878 - 01/14/21 01:59 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Antitrust laws aren’t about free speech they’re about anti-competitive advantages



Correct.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27147016 - 01/14/21 05:06 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Those companies aren't social media. Those are cloud computing contracts.



See the OP on how Amazon was able to remove Parler from being a serious player.  That should help get on the Government's good side.




I think free speech is going by the wayside. I get the argument that its their platform and can allow any speech they want, but its gotten to the point to where they're controlling the internet. This stonetoss comes to mind



They didn't like Twitter's rules so they made their own platform,  parler. And then the internet decided to shut it down. What are you supposed to do? Parlers speech was taken away after they did what others kept saying: they didn't agree with Twitter or Facebook's rules and made their own platform

How are you supposed to speak freely on the internet if they keep shutting you down?


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #27147020 - 01/14/21 05:14 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Is Parler shut down?


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27147021 - 01/14/21 05:17 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Parler was dropped by its IT enablers


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: MagicMush123]
    #27147022 - 01/14/21 05:19 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Those companies aren't social media. Those are cloud computing contracts.



See the OP on how Amazon was able to remove Parler from being a serious player.  That should help get on the Government's good side.




I think free speech is going by the wayside. I get the argument that its their platform and can allow any speech they want, but its gotten to the point to where they're controlling the internet. This stonetoss comes to mind



They didn't like Twitter's rules so they made their own platform,  parler. And then the internet decided to shut it down. What are you supposed to do? Parlers speech was taken away after they did what others kept saying: they didn't agree with Twitter or Facebook's rules and made their own platform

How are you supposed to speak freely on the internet if they keep shutting you down?




Like all right wingers do. Get a radio show

Seriously these companies don’t want to be associated with a violent, white supremacist movement that is responsible for last week’s attack. Get used to it. You people brought it upon yourselves.


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Edited by koods (01/14/21 05:29 AM)


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27147040 - 01/14/21 05:50 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Parler was dropped by its IT enablers




Don't they have some big money backers?
Sounds like they need to purchase some server infrastructure of their own. Not dissimilar to if I purchased a soapbox and bullhorn. They have bootstraps, don't they?


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27147045 - 01/14/21 05:55 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

From what I understand they built their infrastructure using amazons proprietary tools.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #27147131 - 01/14/21 07:58 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Not sure why everyone is acting like this is some new thing.  The entire history of the US has had media censorship.  Newspapers didn't want to run a positive piece or ad for a party? Check.  Radio doing the same? Cheeccckk.  TV? Definitely check!  Now it's the internet.  Private platforms have been doing this forever.  It's nothing new.  Free speech has never ever existed on a private platform, ever, at all.  Something can't diminish when it never started.

The closest we had to free speech / lack of censorship on media platforms was the fairness doctrine that ran from the 40's to the 80s.  Guess which party nuked that bitch.


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