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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27150540 - 01/15/21 11:16 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

It's already been explained.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27150543 - 01/15/21 11:17 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I'm afraid that this deplatforming/censoring of certain topics on social media is going to backfire at some point down the road. The Right lives for this type of attack on their groups, so this does nothing but feeds into their persecution complex. The point is, if they think they can't be heard on social media, that means to them that they need to be heard in the real world and that's a potentially dangerous outcome in my opinion.

So go ahead and regulate all of these subject matters that are up for discussion and think that you're getting away with something in the short term, but it's all going to end up biting them in the ass in the longer term.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: qman]
    #27150545 - 01/15/21 11:19 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

That's a good thing. Get these people out in the open


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: qman]
    #27150549 - 01/15/21 11:21 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I will give you this, it does prime Trump  more for his potential news channel.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27150550 - 01/15/21 11:22 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

It'll be an internet channel anyway.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27150557 - 01/15/21 11:24 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Qman
Quote:

Enlil said:
It's already been explained.



I know, and I made a counter-argument.  And you've dodged my counter-argument so far other than to say Marshall wasn't talking about Facebook.  I know that, and the PG&E case you provided wasn't talking about Facebook either.


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Onlineqman
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27150569 - 01/15/21 11:35 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's a good thing. Get these people out in the open




Their behavior in the open isn't good in my opinion, give these people an outlet online and it's a safer option for everybody. These people truly believe that censoring their ass backwards ideas is because their ideas are legitimate in nature. The current process only encourages these people, that's not what we really want, is it?


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: qman] * 1
    #27150572 - 01/15/21 11:37 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

I think jail will be an effective deterrent


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27150573 - 01/15/21 11:37 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I will give you this, it does prime Trump  more for his potential news channel.




His next business failure.

Trump is too toxic for new business ventures


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27150604 - 01/15/21 11:52 PM (1 month, 16 days ago)

More than one reason why he left New York.

He squandered one of the easiest gigs; be a former president and get paid for shitty speeches. If he resigns , would that stop impeachment/ removal?


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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OfflineKwyjibo
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27150625 - 01/16/21 12:02 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)



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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Kwyjibo]
    #27150644 - 01/16/21 12:19 AM (1 month, 16 days ago)

Americans right now are like stupid teenagers that think it can't happen to them. It wont happen to them. It's not happening to them.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: anatomality]
    #27150765 - 01/16/21 02:59 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Quote:

anatomality said:
Left and right, the extremes both want the same thing. Power and control.



Yeah, you can have people on the authoritarian right (fascists) and on the authoritarian left (communists).

Personally, I lean towards the libertarian-left edge of the political compass (anarchism).


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27150918 - 01/16/21 07:02 AM (1 month, 15 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Well, that's pretty simple. Amazon explicitly kicked Parler off AWS for inciting violence/calls to violence. Trump got kicked off Twitter for inciting violence/calls to violence. Nazis are getting removed off Twitter/Facebook for inciting violence.

The fact that you think this is censorship and is wrong, makes me think that you're in favor of inciting violence.



I've made my position VERY clear (see above) that I'm ok with removing any/all posts that incite violence.  Your position goes WAY beyond mine as you think if someone called for violence on Parler, then we should ban Parler rather than that someone.  If Trump didn't expressly call off the violence on the capitol, then you think we should ban our President entirely.

It's ok that we differ on the amount of censorship we believe in, but to say my position is that "there should be NO censorship of violence/calls to violence" is demonstrably incorrect.

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Otherwise, you just picked a really weird hill to die on, considering it is the "calls to violence/incitement of violence" hill.

But I know, I know, you didn't know any of that, you're just here about the censorship.

Weird timing, huh.



:justno:





"If Trump didn't expressly call of the violence on the capital"? He not only encouraged it, he caused it. Then for a couple seconds, because normal people told him he had to, he condemned it.

Maybe at some point in the near future people can have a rational debate about internet censorship. For example, when the worst thing we have to worry about is an Alex Jones. But right now we have this foaming at the mouth rabid dog President, who has destroyed a certain amount of our future prospects for democracy. We do need to put a muzzle on that dog.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27153927 - 01/17/21 07:26 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Enlil adequately defended his argument. Your failure to understand said argument (being generous here, because I'm pretty sure you're just changing the subject again) is not his problem.



I don't know why you like to make believe I'm not following, I'm following both sides, you're only following one.  I get Enlil's argument, I'm simply disagree with him.

Enlil's saying Facebook doesn't have to distribute other people's messages, just like PG&E doesn't have to distribute other people's fliers.  I get it.  But Justice Marshall explained why PG&E doesn't have to do this, by highlighting the differences between the PG&E case, and the Pruneyard case:

1)  The first difference is the degree of intrusiveness of the permitted access. We noted in PruneYard:

"[T]he shopping center, by choice of its owner, is not limited to the personal use of [its owner]. It is instead a business establishment that is open to the public to come and go as they please."


Does PGE allow it's envelopes to be stuffed by the general public?  No.  Does Facebook allow people to come and go as they please?  Yes.

2)  The second difference between this case and PruneYard is that the State has chosen to give [appellee] a right to speak at the expense of appellant's ability to use the property in question as a forum for the exercise of its own First Amendment rights. While the shopping center owner in PruneYard wished to be free of unwanted expression, he nowhere alleged that his own expression was hindered in the slightest.

Does giving the right to put flyers in PG&E mailings come at the expense of PG&E's speech?  Yes.  Does allowing speech on Facebook come at the expense of of Facebook's own expression?  No.

In other words, if not for the above, PG&E WOULD be forced to distribute fliers it didn't want to.




:huxleyfacepalm:



Though neither you nor Enlil want to discuss this, and instead you resort to facepalms and denial, it is a logical legal argument.

Here is part of an article by the Art Law Journal which makes the same argument about Facebook being a Public Square that I did in relating it to the Pruneyard and Marsh cases, and it adds a bit more:

Quote:

Facebook in many ways is also a public space (although a virtual one) where people congregate to gain information and converse with friends and acquaintances. Some would argue that just like a shopping mall, people should be allowed to express themselves, as long as it is peaceful.

Whether the public space argument will prevail probably won’t be known for a while. An aggrieved person must first bring a lawsuit over being censored and then run it through the various court levels until it reaches the Supreme Court (if the case is accepted by the Court.).




So again, it is a valid argument that the Supreme Court has yet to rule on.


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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27154087 - 01/17/21 09:21 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Well in a way we are losing our freedoms to voice our opinions. With big tech regulations an them trying to shut down other platforms that offer less stricked policies.

Face book, Twitter, Amazon are getting out of hand with abusing there power. We are in a information war.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27154181 - 01/17/21 10:11 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

You’ve never had more freedoms


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OfflineMach z 800
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods] * 1
    #27154190 - 01/17/21 10:20 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You’ve never had more freedoms


yes you are very right on that. 

But im talking about big tech trying to dictate what we can say an there set of rules. I dont think any will be safe unless your views align with theres. This is what im seeinf at least.


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OfflinemndfreezeM
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Mach z 800]
    #27154196 - 01/17/21 10:29 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Just unplug and they can't dictate anything.


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I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27154264 - 01/17/21 10:57 PM (1 month, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So again, it is a valid argument that the Supreme Court has yet to rule on.




It's a valid argument that can be made in court, yet.

Then again, a lawyer pulling down his pants and jacking off on a witness is also a "valid argument", in the sense that it is an "argument" that can be made. I doubt it will go well.


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