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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States?
    #27146571 - 01/13/21 10:28 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

This discussion started in the Coronavirus thread, but I don't want to hijack that thread, so I'll move it here to it's own thread.

Here's what Glenn Greenwald said:

How Silicon Valley, in a Show of Monopolistic Force, Destroyed Parler
Glenn Greenwald
12 Jan 21

Quote:

In the last three months, tech giants have censored political speech and journalism to manipulate U.S. politics, while liberals, with virtual unanimity, have cheered.

Critics of Silicon Valley censorship for years heard the same refrain: tech platforms like Facebook, Google and Twitter are private corporations and can host or ban whoever they want. If you don’t like what they are doing, the solution is not to complain or to regulate them. Instead, go create your own social media platform that operates the way you think it should.

The founders of Parler heard that suggestion and tried.
.
.
.
As Silicon Valley censorship radically escalated over the past several months — banning pre-election reporting by The New York Post about the Biden family, denouncing and deleting multiple posts from the U.S. President and then terminating his access altogether, mass-removal of right-wing accounts — so many people migrated to Parler that it was catapulted to the number one spot on the list of most-downloaded apps on the Apple Play Store...

It looked as if Parler had proven critics of Silicon Valley monopolistic power wrong. Their success showed that it was possible after all to create a new social media platform to compete with Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And they did so by doing exactly what Silicon Valley defenders long insisted should be done: if you don’t like the rules imposed by tech giants, go create your own platform with different rules.

But today, if you want to download, sign up for, or use Parler, you will be unable to do so. That is because three Silicon Valley monopolies — Amazon, Google and Apple — abruptly united to remove Parler from the internet, exactly at the moment when it became the most-downloaded app in the country.

If one were looking for evidence to demonstrate that these tech behemoths are, in fact, monopolies that engage in anti-competitive behavior in violation of antitrust laws, and will obliterate any attempt to compete with them in the marketplace, it would be difficult to imagine anything more compelling than how they just used their unconstrained power to utterly destroy a rising competitor.
.
.
.





And here's what some other significant people in the world have said:

Quote:


World Leaders Denounce Big Tech Censorship of President Donald Trump



Angela Merkel - German Chancellor:  Lawmakers should set the rules governing free speech and not private technology companies.  “The chancellor sees the complete closing down of the account of an elected president as problematic”.

Alexy Navlny - Russian allegedly poisoned with novichok:  "I think that the ban of Donald Trump on Twitter is an unacceptable act of censorship."

Manuel López Obrador - Mexican President:  "I don’t like anybody being censored or taking away from the right to post a message on Twitter or Facebook."

Clement Beaune - Minister for European Union Affairs: "This should be decided by citizens, not by a CEO."

Manfred Weber - Leader of the European People’s Party:  "We cannot leave it to American Big Tech to decide how we can or cannot discuss online."

Bruno Le Maire - French Finance Minister:  Condemned the move and said that tech giants were part of a digital oligarchy that was a threat to democracy.

Alex Antic - Australian Senator:  “Our democratic process is founded on our ability to share ideas freely and to be exposed to challenging and opposing viewpoints. It is crucial to the integrity of that process that Big Tech companies do not censor one side of the debate”

Josh Frydenberg - Australian Federal Treasure (quoting Voltaire):  "I may not agree with what you say, but I defend the right to say it."

Jonas Gahr Støre - Norway Labor Leader:  "I understand that Trump's statements are problematic, dangerous and encouraged to hate, but there is a very high threshold to block people out, so I am skeptical of that."




Are they right?  Is free speech diminishing in the United States?


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27146578 - 01/13/21 10:31 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Wow a bunch of foreigners don't understand our constitutionally protected rights.

Getting to use twitter isn't a right. Twitter didn't exist a decade ago and people still communicated



I must have missed that in civics class.  Can you point the part of the constitution where censorship by private corporations is protected?


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #27146579 - 01/13/21 10:35 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

The first amendment.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146586 - 01/13/21 10:39 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Looks like they are willing to ban people, at the detriment of their profits. See the value of Twitter after doing such, to the president?



Social media companies are making billions from US Government contracts.  This is just one of those contracts.

I think they're trying to ensure they keep the taxpayer money flowing into their coffers.  :shrug:


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146588 - 01/13/21 10:42 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Those companies aren't social media. Those are cloud computing contracts.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #27146589 - 01/13/21 10:42 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

I don't understand what's so mysterious about the reality that the owners of proprietary platforms can allow or disallow whatever speech they wish. It makes sense to me. :shrug:


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146593 - 01/13/21 10:46 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The first amendment.



The first amendment protects freedom of speech, not freedom of censorship.  I've heard your argument, and I think it has nothing to do with free speech, but rather the freedom of companies to suppress speech, which again wouldn't be protected.

Maybe you can show me a court decision where it was ruled censorship by private companies is free speech?  Or even a scholarly article since you failed to do it the first time you claimed "there are countless scholarly articles"?


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146598 - 01/13/21 10:48 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)



--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146599 - 01/13/21 10:48 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Those companies aren't social media. Those are cloud computing contracts.



See the OP on how Amazon was able to remove Parler from being a serious player.  That should help get on the Government's good side.


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146603 - 01/13/21 10:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Looks like they are willing to ban people, at the detriment of their profits. See the value of Twitter after doing such, to the president?



Social media companies are making billions from US Government contracts.  This is just one of those contracts.

I think they're trying to ensure they keep the taxpayer money flowing into their coffers.  :shrug:




How does banning members of congress help ensure the tax payer money keeps flowing?

Why don’t conspiracy theories ever make sense?


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146604 - 01/13/21 10:52 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Here you go

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/933/compelled-speech



That's about compelled speech, not censorship.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146609 - 01/13/21 10:54 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Those companies aren't social media. Those are cloud computing contracts.



See the OP on how Amazon was able to remove Parler from being a serious player.  That should help get on the Government's good side.




You have an entire political party that has gone nuts about this, and you think this is an example of getting on the government’s good side. 🤦‍♂️


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146614 - 01/13/21 10:55 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Here you go

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/933/compelled-speech



That's about compelled speech, not censorship.



Are you trolling? Or do you seriously not understand the applicability?


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27146619 - 01/13/21 10:57 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Here you go

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/933/compelled-speech



That's about compelled speech, not censorship.




Compelled speech is a violation of the first amendment. Censorship is not.

You want the government to decide whether social media can choose what speech they platform. That is unconstitutional.


Edited by koods (01/13/21 10:59 PM)


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27146629 - 01/13/21 11:07 PM (1 month, 12 days ago)

The leaders falcon admires most kill and jail journalists and critics on a routine basis. Not sure he’s the best free speech advocate.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil]
    #27146639 - 01/13/21 11:15 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Are you trolling? Or do you seriously not understand the applicability?



As I've said before, I think small companies can do anything they want, but a different set of rules apply for monopolistic companies like Facebook.  I realize you disagree with the House Antitrust Subcommittee's finding that Facebook has monopoly powers, because you hereby declared you didn't agree with them, but you presented NO EXPLANATION to support your position to counter their 449 page report.


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146640 - 01/13/21 11:16 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Is that a yes you're trolling? Or do you not understand how what you're describing is compelled speech?


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: koods]
    #27146641 - 01/13/21 11:17 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The leaders falcon admires most kill and jail journalists and critics on a routine basis. Not sure he’s the best free speech advocate.



I'm koods, and I like to make believe fal admires Putin!  :flowstone:


--------------------
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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27146645 - 01/13/21 11:20 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

https://www.livelaw.in/columns/government-twitter-account-rti-public-authority-167664

"An 'authority' can also be an 'instrumentality or agency' of the State, provided there is governmental ownership and/or control. In this case, the authority in the form of the Governmental Twitter account is owned and controlled by the Government. Thus, the Governmental account can also be considered as an 'instrumentality or agency' of the State."

I wonder how Twitter will get around shutting down a government instrument of the state with Trumps account being banned.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders


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Re: Is Free Speech Diminishing in the United States? [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27146646 - 01/13/21 11:21 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Is that a yes you're trolling? Or do you not understand how what you're saying is compelled speech?



I understand.  Do you not understand that monopolies have to play by different rules than other companies?  Read the OP again if you're not convinced of the power of existing tech companies to suppress new entries.


--------------------
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