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 piq
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 Too little substrate in shoeboxes? 
#27145700 - 01/13/21 01:32 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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So last night I put together some 6 quart shoeboxes. They're 1 quart of spawn and 1.5 quarts coir/verm. The depth of the substrate probably averages 1.5 inches around. I definitely knew that should've used more substrate but honestly, I got pretty stoned and forgot that it was a ratio and not an exact value...
Anyway, I'm wondering if there's going to be enough nutrients and water present for a productive flush? I also would appreciate it if anyone could give me some information about when and how to start supplying water to the tubs.
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 coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27145711 - 01/13/21 01:37 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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People have managed to grow huge mushrooms off very thing subs. I know RR has some cool pics, I'll look for them later if I can.
The thing to bare in mind is that you may need to work a little harder to keep humidity up. I grew a good bunch of cubes on a thinner than suggested sub so it's not the end of the world. 1.5" should be ok.
Did you put a pseudo casing down at all??
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27145765 - 01/13/21 01:58 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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I didn't put down a pseudo casing, I probably would have but I didn't make enough sub. Also, in regards to the moisture content, I felt as if the coir was on the dry side. So I'm wondering if it's too soon to mist them again, do I need to wait until it's more colonized?
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coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27145773 - 01/13/21 02:01 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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photos would make this easier 
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27145809 - 01/13/21 02:19 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Sorry it took so long, my laptop is completely full had to use my phone.
 
You can't really tell much from these pics either, I'm a bit afraid to open them again.
Edited by piq (01/13/21 02:19 PM)
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coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27145821 - 01/13/21 02:26 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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As long as your grain was 100% colonised I wouldn't stress too much about opening them up.
Do you more coir? Just hydrate it with tap water and put a layer on top.
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27145837 - 01/13/21 02:33 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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The grain was definitely colonized. Some things though looked indicative of contams so I'm a bit skeptical to add plain coir on top. I should mention that these are MSS grain jars and I had lost one to trich. If you still think I should case it though I'm down.
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Crackatoa
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27146560 - 01/13/21 10:16 PM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
coversall said:
put a layer on top.
It's a top layer. A top layer and casing are 2 different things. Not trying to be an ass, allot of people get it confused. A top layer helps with micro climate, I always add a top layer.
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RamJam
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27146785 - 01/14/21 12:46 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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I just ran a side by side set of shoe boxes, half with pseudo-case half without. I say "pseudo" because I just used the same stuff as the substrate isntead of like the peat moss type casing in the RR video. (just different term for what cracktoa was saying there kind of) (and I used 3 different substrate recipes, one of those was plain core) All from the same grain master. The uncased ones appear to colonize the top layer faster but all fruited later! and worse total weight.
Also, MSS to grains is a bad idea. I read everyone here say that and ran some tests on that as well. Some don't even end up fruiting anything...
On half of the uncased shoe boxes, I then added a pseudo-case layer after the top layer was colonized like at the point RR does in the casing video, and it grew up through fast and gave good flushes. So, from my experience, it isn't too late. And ya, just plain core is fine for that.
Edited by RamJam (01/14/21 12:48 AM)
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coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: Crackatoa]
#27147027 - 01/14/21 05:30 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crackatoa said:
Quote:
coversall said:
put a layer on top.
It's a top layer. A top layer and casing are 2 different things. Not trying to be an ass, allot of people get it confused. A top layer helps with micro climate, I always add a top layer.
Would a top layer and what I've been calling a pseudo casing be the same thing? Just a layer of pure sub added on top at the time of spawning?
Where as a casing layer is a different mix added on top of a colonised sub? Or can it be the same material as the sub?
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kanemush
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27147031 - 01/14/21 05:36 AM (1 month, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
coversall said:
Quote:
Crackatoa said:
Quote:
coversall said:
put a layer on top.
It's a top layer. A top layer and casing are 2 different things. Not trying to be an ass, allot of people get it confused. A top layer helps with micro climate, I always add a top layer.
Would a top layer and what I've been calling a pseudo casing be the same thing? Just a layer of pure sub added on top at the time of spawning?
Where as a casing layer is a different mix added on top of a colonised sub? Or can it be the same material as the sub?
For a casing you should use peet moss and vermiculite which is usually put on after 90-100% sub colonization. Just covering your grains in the beginning is not a casing in the true since.
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coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: kanemush]
#27147051 - 01/14/21 05:57 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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Nice. I've been using peatmoss and verm with pans, do people use that with cubes as well?
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kanemush
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27147056 - 01/14/21 06:02 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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cubes i think most people don't even use a casing except with PE. And yes peet and verm for casing works with cubes.
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coversall
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: kanemush]
#27147064 - 01/14/21 06:18 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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nice nice
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: coversall]
#27147333 - 01/14/21 10:59 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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I ended up deciding not to add the top layer of coir. I figured it's done already and I can just mist them. I'm really only looking for a fruit to clone so yields don't mean much to me this time.
It seems like the general consensus in this thread is that you should add a top layer at the time of spawning. Which means you would have no exposed grains, but I've seen many write ups where people insist on evenly mixing everything. Is there a right or wrong method here and why?
Are exposed grains bad?
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Crackatoa
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27147376 - 01/14/21 11:32 AM (1 month, 12 days ago) |
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You evenly mix your spawn and substrate. Tamp it down and flatten it out and then apply your top layer. Exposed grains aren't bad, the top layer just helps keep and maintain surface conditions. I feel like no top layer requires more attention and more understanding of surface conditions.
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: Crackatoa]
#27155477 - 01/18/21 03:25 PM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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Updating this with current pictures.
 
worried about the sides having better conditions than the surface
  
Could anyone give me some feedback as to how this looks?
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Crackatoa
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27155513 - 01/18/21 03:44 PM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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Doesn't look bad, is it tamped down pretty good? I've started using liners on my monos, no side pins and clean up is easy AF. With shoeboxes I just use Walmart bags. You guys stretch them a little bit they work. You gonna top layer with coir?
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piq
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: Crackatoa]
#27155539 - 01/18/21 03:55 PM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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They probably could have been tamped down more, it looks like the sub might be starting to shrink. A liner definitely would have worked out better in these ones. I was going to skip the top layer since I'm really just looking for a clone. Bad idea??
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Crackatoa
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Re: Too little substrate in shoeboxes? [Re: piq]
#27155584 - 01/18/21 04:15 PM (1 month, 8 days ago) |
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No, you'll get a clone either way as long as the spawn is healthy.
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