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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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"Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning
    #27141758 - 01/11/21 12:49 PM (12 days, 9 hours ago)

Ive been trying the "patience" thing and it's only brought me further disappointment. Im honestly about ready to just chuck these cakes and try again.
It seems that I'm capable of growing mycelium beautifully... but when it comes to actually fruiting, I'm lost. I've been on this thing 3x daily misting (3-5 sprays) and fanning (1-2 mins), keeping my temps in the right zone, humidity in the box is pegged. Closet RH~45%. Leaving the lid slightly cracked 3-5 hours daily. When spawned, they were soaked in dist. H2O for ~18 hours and "cased" (I know its not a true casing) in oven-pasteurized + slightly rehydrated vermiculate. (Contam paranoia) And yes, they were allowed to consolidate fully.
They've been in the condition shown for over 2 weeks. Now Ive heard of Colombian Rust taking forever to pin. But after inspecting each cake, it seems I haven't even got anything even resembling primordia. The way the vermiculate is starting to "flake" up on the cakes makes me almost think they're too dry, but after the soaking and daily misting and sitting in a box at full humidity, I'm not really sure how that's possible. Perlite's clearly still saturated, and I'd even built the box with less holes than recommended just to avoid this exact issue.



The 2 that Ive put in a humidity chamber seem to be doing far better, though they were just spawned on 1/8. (I had enough time for a FULL 24hr soak this time around) And I've just been misting these once or twice a day, only whenever the micro-droplets are almost gone. Only enough of a "fanning" to replenish the box with fresh air (Really just a couple wafts from the lid).



Like I said, Ive heard stories of CRS taking forever to pin, but this seems a bit excessive and it's really got me worrying (I couldnt begin to describe the amount of time and money this has taken from me, and I'd really like to actually get something to show for it.)
Oh and if it looks like coarser-grade vermiculate on the cakes in the HC, thats because it is. Thought the finer stuff Id rolled the others in might be causing the mycelium to not get enough evaporation (May have been right).
Does anyone have experience with this strain? The mycelium grew like a dream, but these pinning troubles just makes them un-fruitable for anyone who isn't a professional mycologist. (Not this guy)

Should I just crumble these little shits into a tub and case em? This is beyond frustrating at this point and I'm not sure this hobby is for me. (Wouldve been nice to know before spending hundreds of dollars on supplies). Was it this bad for anyone else their first time around?

Oh, if youre a noob and on the fence about how to start, JUST BUY A KIT. Finding all the materials has been nothing short of a shit-show.


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27141821 - 01/11/21 01:20 PM (12 days, 9 hours ago)

Failure is natural at the beginning. This hobby is not for people who want a quick way to get drugs. You need to fine tune your technique into something that works for you and your own unique conditions. This requires lots of time and effort and money and patience and failure. Its easy to get discouraged at the beginning but when you finally get that nice flush you've been dreaming off, it will all be worth it. The time is going to pass whether you grow or not, so you might as well have something going on in the background.

Its better to birth cakes too late then too soon. Most people recommend letting it sit for a week after its 100% white fuzzy

What are your temps? You want it around 75-80 degrees (I could be wrong about the exact range).

Old man Winter can be a fucking dick, so you might want to wait till the snows gone

Might need more FAE but I could be wrong.

You want to make as many jars as possible so you have a constant flow into all the different stages.

You should look into making shoeboxes and shred your cakes to a bulk substrate next time around. Don't throw out your cakes, bury them outside

Keep reading new teks, the more you learn about this, the better your results will be. I'd recommend staying away from kits and learning how to do it DIY, much much cheeper in the long run, and this hobby is all about the long run

mushroomvideos.com
Bod's easy AF teks


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #27141875 - 01/11/21 01:43 PM (12 days, 8 hours ago)

Haha yes I always watch all of bod's stuff. He's quite a character I love it!
The thing about fine-tuning, is I need to have some success/failure to know which direction to actually go. This is like... cultivation purgatory. There's just no feedback to give me an idea what to do next.
Got plenty of colonized spawn, agar, and LCs ready, starting more cakes this week sometime... And a whole library of species to work with (Started p-tamps At#7 agar yesterday, in case I never figure out how to get a fruit lol).
I just never expected to be left completely clueless as to whats going on, it makes it very difficult to know which way to take things.


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27141981 - 01/11/21 02:47 PM (12 days, 7 hours ago)






New toys came in! Hopefully it helps, my temps were dropping down into the mid-60s at night.


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27144163 - 01/12/21 06:25 PM (11 days, 4 hours ago)

Are you knocking up BRF jars with LC?

LC is a really advanced thing that's easy for beginners to fuck up without even knowing.

Do you have a PC? You should save your agar for when you have a pc and can prepare grains that take agar.

Go spore to brf if otherwise

Temps can be hard to artificially control because the heating element can dry out the substrate. Warmer months are right around the corner and they really really help


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OfflineBlazer Man
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27144214 - 01/12/21 07:00 PM (11 days, 3 hours ago)

All the instruments in the world are not going to help you. If you want to grow do this:
1) Empty your bin and drill 1/4 holes, 2 inches apart, all over, sides, top and bottom.
2) After you wash new perlite, put 4 to 5 inches back in.
3) Put something under your bin, 4 to 5 inches off the surface of the table, so air can flow. Do not set your bin on the floor.
4) Keep temps right around 72F
5) Keep a light schedule of 12 hours on and 12 off. I use Growers Select LED bulbs
6) Put all the mechanical BS away except your thermometer (to keep it around 72)
6 1/2) Buck up and quit complaining, we have all failed.
7) Thank me in about a week (if you do this immediately)


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Blazer Man]
    #27145836 - 01/13/21 02:32 PM (10 days, 7 hours ago)

Theres a reason I chose to do it the way I did it, and it came from reading a bunch of threads on here- a bunch of people were having trouble keeping humidity high enough in their SGFCs. (Should I not even bother with a "humidity chamber" then? Because those have NO holes...) And after some reading, I think my perlite might be too fine-grade as well, not letting enough fresh air waft up through the bottom. "Mechanical BS" Did you mean my heater and thermostat? My closet is simply too cold, and I didnt want to use anything that heats the totes directly (like a heat-pad or float-tote method). Other than that, theres nothing mechanical about this setup. (Other than a timer?) And that tote has been kept elevated from the very beginning. I'm not a complete idiot, I just made an incorrect decision when building the tote...

Crucial question: While renovating the tote, should I re-dunk and roll since its been almost 18 days? (Similar threads of similar issues, thats the advice given.)
Am I wrong here for trying to search for the info before asking a question about it? People seem to get upset if you ask a question that others have asked previously (not any of you guys, I've just seen ALOT of that on here).

Hikeadellic: Nope, used a regular old MSS to inoculate. Yes I've got a PC, and I use it religiously. Contamination hasn't even shown up once in any of the spawn or substrate (agar's another story lol). And I'm slowly working on perfecting the LC techniques, the nuances are not lost on me. First time for everything though.

Honestly this fine-mister kicks ass, wish I had it from the start. The other one sprayed out a few giant drops right in the middle, this has none of those problems.


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OfflineHappinessStan
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27145904 - 01/13/21 02:59 PM (10 days, 7 hours ago)

They'll probably pin in a couple of days, they don't look unhealthy.
Please don't tell noobs to buy kits. You can get all your supplies for cheap and this hobby isn't difficult; even if the cakes fail, you've still learned vaulable lessons and you've got everything you need to last you for years of cultivation. Just keep on, put some clean agar to grains and then go to coir. Remember, you miss all of the shots you don't take.
All you need for grains to coir is some jars with a hole and polyfill, you don't even need to invest more money, just recycle some large food jars and rip up a cushion or stuffed toy. You could spawn a shoebox or mono in a couple of weeks if you have clean agar.
One thing that's blown my mind is Munch's blenderless liquid inoculate.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22833314
I tried it and I went from a clean agar plate to nearly 100% colonisation in 7 days(I did a whole plate to two jars)Seriously, wait and see what happens with your cakes and put your agar to grain.
You've clearly done your research as you seem to know what you're talking about. Remember, even TC's fuck up.You're so close to getting shrooms, bro. Don't give up.


--------------------
Once upon a time in the land of dreams,
where the sky was silky soft and full of coloured dreams.
Deep inside a rainbow lived Happiness Stan,
in a small Victoriana charabanc.


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: HappinessStan]
    #27145992 - 01/13/21 03:46 PM (10 days, 6 hours ago)

If your agar plats are contaming, you might want to look into wraping the edges with glad cling wrap

Are you pouring or not pouring plates?

For pouring agar you need to use a SAB and have good "sterile" procedure, no airflow in the room and maybe spray some water in the air to knock down dust particles


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InvisiblePodamous
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #27146019 - 01/13/21 04:01 PM (10 days, 6 hours ago)

waiting for the TC like :confused: lmao


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OfflineFungusFreedom
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #27146028 - 01/13/21 04:09 PM (10 days, 6 hours ago)

I would take blazer man's advice and use the sgfc as it was designed. Also though, 15 days isn't crazy. I've had cakes take longer and be just fine.


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OfflineBlazer Man
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27146142 - 01/13/21 05:39 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Artemisia_Ale said:
Theres a reason I chose to do it the way I did it, and it came from reading a bunch of threads on here- a bunch of people were having trouble keeping humidity high enough in their SGFCs. (Should I not even bother with a "humidity chamber" then? Because those have NO holes...) And after some reading, I think my perlite might be too fine-grade as well, not letting enough fresh air waft up through the bottom. "Mechanical BS" Did you mean my heater and thermostat? My closet is simply too cold, and I didnt want to use anything that heats the totes directly (like a heat-pad or float-tote method). Other than that, theres nothing mechanical about this setup. (Other than a timer?) And that tote has been kept elevated from the very beginning. I'm not a complete idiot, I just made an incorrect decision when building the tote...

Crucial question: While renovating the tote, should I re-dunk and roll since its been almost 18 days? (Similar threads of similar issues, thats the advice given.)
Am I wrong here for trying to search for the info before asking a question about it? People seem to get upset if you ask a question that others have asked previously (not any of you guys, I've just seen ALOT of that on here).

Hikeadellic: Nope, used a regular old MSS to inoculate. Yes I've got a PC, and I use it religiously. Contamination hasn't even shown up once in any of the spawn or substrate (agar's another story lol). And I'm slowly working on perfecting the LC techniques, the nuances are not lost on me. First time for everything though.

Honestly this fine-mister kicks ass, wish I had it from the start. The other one sprayed out a few giant drops right in the middle, this has none of those problems.





Humidity levels in a SGFC will hover around 70 to 90 percent depending on when you mist. However, the humidity level is not absolutely critical. Pining is triggered by evaporation. You simply don't have enough air flow. I am not lying to you, revamp that box, wash off, dunk and re-roll half your cakes and let the others alone (but put in your new SGFC). This will be a cool experiment to see what you should have done (although I think they will all pin eventually). If you do this tonight you will have fruits in a week or two. Bet...


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: HappinessStan]
    #27146182 - 01/13/21 06:03 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

HS: Its been a few days since the post, and it just literally looks like the mycelium is retreating... Temps are an even 75° inside the tote since I've hooked up the heater rig, and it looks like they've got plenty of evaporation (the micro-droplets on the surface are almost completely gone by the next mist/fan session).
Should I re-dunk/roll while I'm rebuilding the tote? My eye isn't very experienced, but they look almost like they're drying out with the way the verm flakes up. I used 1/4 ounce jars for faster colonization... perhaps the small size is making it hard for the mycelium to retain enough moisture? I know you said they looked healthy, but since this post they seem to have gotten worse. Theres none of the fuzzy whispy mycelium I see in almost every image I find, and theres slight bruising on some spots. (In my mind, Ive almost become used to the idea that these ones arent gonna work).
The 2 that I've had in a small humidity chamber look phenomenally better off. The mycelium is trying to reach down into the coir and it looks like hyphae are all over the things.
Id think they'd be okay buying a kit - so long as they do their homework researching as much as they would otherwise, and stock up on any extra supplies they may need like agar stuff and extra vermiculate. I just meant that there can be alot of roadblocks when having to compile everything (especially if your hardware shop is empty out-of-season), though I suppose that's also given me alot of ideas through improvisation.
I have a mono going right now, the surface is starting to look pretty good. And I'm going to get some subs pasteurized tomorrow to start some small shoeboxes and shotgun-trays... The grain needs used-up, its been colonized for a while. I didnt start them yet because there was a bunch of peach-colored spots I thought might've been the beginnings of mold (it was metabolites).
I'll have to try that blenderless liquid tek! Seems simple enough. Seriously, thank you for all of your advice and kind words. I'm far too invested to even think about calling it quits at this point. What else would I do anyways?


Hike: There hasnt been any serious issues with the agar or plates themselves, but thanks for the idea! The grafting tape is way too small and awkward to use on ketchup cups, and I only really only use the true petri dishes on the very last transfer before it's inoc'd.
The very first thing I did with all this was, build a good sleeved-SAB. Id still like to hook up a fan and HEPA to keep it pumped full of clean-filtered air, but I'm amazed at how little contaminations I've actually had just using it as-is! I use it in a dirty ass kitchen with almost no precautions outside of the box itself.

Pod: ..."TC" is "temperature control", correct?

FF: Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and poke some more holes and dump in some perlite. (This shit is definitely too fine-grade).
Ive got some hydroton expanded clay balls, wondering if that might be better for getting a good updraft in the tote?

Once again, thanks for the input everyone! Id literally be lost without it.

Oh and the question remains: Should I dunk/roll again while prepping the tote?


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Blazer Man]
    #27146200 - 01/13/21 06:11 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

BM: There it is, thats exactly what I was wondering. Yeah, that sounds good to do half/half like that, but if its more advisable to re-dunk then I'll probably just do them all.
Should I roll in a coarser-grade verm, And is there a reliable way to determine if the perlite is too fine to allow air to waft up through it?


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OfflineHikeadellic
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27146224 - 01/13/21 06:23 PM (10 days, 4 hours ago)

I'd ditch the sleeves on the SAB, you want the air to be still and the sleeves make a vaccum that makes air move more. Use gloves with 70% alc though. I'd skip the HEPA for now too for the same reason. You really don't want to complicate things. A sealed box with two holes is all you need. You want to be in a small room with no carpet, for most people that's a bathroom. In this hobby, bathrooms are a lot cleaner then kitchens.

TC is for trusted cultivators

I would not dunk and roll the cakes you have going right now, just let them do their thing, maybe more FAE and humidity. Dunk n roll them in-between harvests


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Hikeadellic]
    #27146274 - 01/13/21 06:52 PM (10 days, 3 hours ago)

Yeah I know, "dunk and roll between harvests" is standard, but this is case-specific information that I need... It hasn't exactly been a "conventional" grow up to this point.

Anyways, I just wanted to provide a comparison to the 2 that I spawned to a mini-Humidity Chamber about 4-5 days ago now. Notice the mycelium reaching down into the coir, and what looks like the beginnings of primordia formation around the edges. Trying not to screw this one up if I can manage it! Ive been waiting until the droplets all evaporate before re-misting these. I feel that this is how the other 6 in the tote should look, other than the coarse verm:



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Invisibleivey77
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Artemisia_Ale]
    #27146521 - 01/13/21 09:43 PM (10 days, 43 minutes ago)

I've never fucked with this specific cubensis variety because reports of slow pinning. But pf tek is a slower process. It's designed for a beginner and ms inoculation.

My cakes always did better in a tub with perlite, ultrasonic humidifier, and drilled eighth inch hole, straw with several holes inserted. Filled with 5 cc h20 2x day and kept indirect fan blowing. Temp around 78 to 80, ambient light. Lc will make it faster but needs to be done right from an agar wedge.

Just smoke a lot of pot and leave them alone as much as possible. Drop temp 4 degrees or so at night to mimmick nature. I've had aa+ take 6 weeks after birthing to pin and fruit. As long as you don't see contam and keep overlay at bay it'll do it's thing eventually


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OfflineLemgrub
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: ivey77]
    #27146576 - 01/13/21 10:29 PM (9 days, 23 hours ago)

Grind em up and and throw them into a sub. Didn't know about rust pinning slow, hasn't for me I guess. This shoebox was spawned 12/30


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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Lemgrub]
    #27146587 - 01/13/21 10:41 PM (9 days, 23 hours ago)

I've had very little success with brf to tubs. To be fair I've only done it a handful of times. Just seems so tedious and a lot of work for minimal yield and higher risk of problems. With popcorn even being so cheap and easy to use as spawn I can't see much reason to fuck with cakes often. I almost only ever run them to check the genetics, viability and cleanliness of a syringe I find hidden in my supplies I forget about.


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OfflineArtemisia_Ale
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Re: "Colombian Rust" PF Day 15... STILL no pinning [Re: Lemgrub]
    #27146944 - 01/14/21 03:04 AM (9 days, 19 hours ago)

Lemgrub: looks great! Do you spawn to hydrated verm/coir? Also whats your mist/fan schedule and temp/conditions to get that?
Ive heard ending up with poor surface conditions is almost harder to recover from than a contamination/infection. Thats why I was thinking to just crumble the original 6. But they're undergoing a process of rebirth at the moment. (re-soak, roll, etc.)
This was a free syringe that came with a "Puerto Rican" P.C. strain I ordered (really not sure why I picked it as my first attempt). Wish I would've went with PE or Cambodians...
In your opinion, do the 2 cakes in the humidity chamber look like theyve got proper surface conditions? I'm allowing micro-drops to evap before giving them another mist.
Thanks so much for the help! I'm glad I found someone whose actually cult'd this strain specifically.

ivey: I've never done this before, not quite sure how to keep overlay at bay (just shooting for evaporating micro-droplets). I'll be sure to research more about it. Apparently its a big problem with the Puerto Ricans too.
I'm just going to make as many different totes/shoeboxes/cakes/spawn as possible and hope at least something goes. Keeping the risks spread-out was in mind from the beginning, it's why I opted for PF tek.
Ive never even heard of cubes taking 6 weeks to pin/fruit! Going to just have to wait and see... If the monotub goes better, I'll probably never bother with them like this again (at least not as a main-focus).
Thanks for the input!


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