Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineSugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 12,047
Loc: maybe I had too much, too fast
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142178 - 01/11/21 02:45 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Problem with the laws is they were written  before social media was a thing and now social media has taken control of our political world so that they can prevent laws from being written.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27142202 - 01/11/21 02:57 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Yea i smoked weed today too. But i kept my weed thoughts to myself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27142281 - 01/11/21 03:47 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
obviously paying for the use of something after agreeing to an EULA, means you do not have any rights except those in the EULA which is designed to protect the platform not the user.

having observed the insurrection at the capitol, some responsibility has been injected into the system by muzzling the most dangerous liar at large.

expect more good conversations on this matter, and keep your own nose clean.




That's true, however EULA is generally "Void where prohibited". So legislation could prohibit denying rights of a public forums via social media. The entire premise of social media is as a communication platform, (it is assuming that role) and they are open to the public, and technically all the server costs and wages are payed for by the people using the forums, like a tax, via add revenue. Unlike Wal-Mart for example, which premise isn't communication.

So I think that considering that the premise of the business is a publicly accessible communications forum, that it should be beholden to citizens rights of communication using the most modern means. Even more-so considering that these companies are publicly owned and traded on the stock exchange. So the enforcement of rules (moderation) should be based on Laws rather than on whims.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27142300 - 01/11/21 04:00 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

Free broadcasting, however, never existed, and it should not exist like free speech, in order to manage norms, propaganda, and abuse of this larger stage where one voice can speak simultaneously to millions of people. it is not a megaphone it is a gigaphone, and it has to be used responsibly or removed from the abusers.

The old laws never considered how unbalancing a lunatic with a gigaphone can be.






*FREE* ??????

Nah, it's being paid for, and inciting a riot is penal law "A person is guilty of inciting to riot when one urges ten or more persons to engage in tumultuous and violent conduct of a kind likely to create public alarm." So it would still be moderated if the forums were moderated by laws and rights.

The whole Trump fiasco just brought to light how much control social media has over our modern and most accessible forums.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: Sugabearcrisp]
    #27142313 - 01/11/21 04:08 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:

The problem with this logic is that section 230 gives these private companies protections as a public forum, which renders them no longer private.




Also they are publicly traded, which even if you own a .00000000001 fractional share, you are an owner.

Maybe we buy 1 share of twitter and give a fraction of it to every person, :laugh:, If literally every person was an owner, would it really be private?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142343 - 01/11/21 04:24 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:


State Action Requirement

Definition
The state action requirement refers to the requirement that in order for a plaintiff to have standing to sue over a law being violated, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the government (local, state, or federal), was responsible for the violation, rather than a private actor.

Overview
This requirement only applies when the law in question requires the government to have acted.

This state action requirement extends to a number of actions.





Quote:


First Amendment
The First Amendment states that β€œ[c]ongress shall make no law” infringing upon the freedoms of speech and religion. Because of this requirement, it is impossible for a purely private party to violate this Amendment. 

Discrimination
In Edmonson, the Supreme Court wrote that "discrimination, though invidious in all contexts, violates the Constitution only when it may be attributed to state action."





https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/state_action_requirement


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142350 - 01/11/21 04:28 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:


Over the years, the Court has developed several technical tests for determining when the conduct of a nominally private person or entity constitutes state action: (1) the public function test, (2) the joint action/symbiotic relationship test and (3) the nexus test





Maybe enlil would be someone good to ask but I believe twitter isn't state action by any legal test, and thus it is quite literally impossible for them to violate your first amendment rights.

Quote:

This means that I personally, as a private person, cannot violate your constitutional rights, at least those based on the 14th Amendment. Some governmental involvement is required. For example, if I punch you because I disagree with your views, I may have violated state law but not the 1st Amendment. On the other hand, if a police officers arrests you because of what you said, that arrest is state action and may turn out to violate your 1st Amendment rights.





https://nahmodlaw.com/2015/02/19/know-your-constitution-8-what-is-state-action/


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142353 - 01/11/21 04:31 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Social media is our modern form of communication, and I would like to posit that as such, it should be afforded the rights of Public Forums and afford 1st amendment rights to its users. (within reason) Moderation for spam and such is reasonable, censorship is not. I don't like Trump really, but i think he should have the right to communicate by modern means.




Forums should have the right to their own rules and that means silencing speech. Why conservatives don't have their own internet I don't know. Nothing's stopping anyone from hosting their own servers. I think there was political opportunity. Perhaps there will be lawsuits. Trump's pretty good at that I hear. In a previous ruling the court decided Trump could not ban people from his twitter feed. He "engaged in viewpoint discrimination in a public forum, action that would violate the freedom of speech guarantee of the First Amendment".


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." β€”Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: Rahz]
    #27142359 - 01/11/21 04:36 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Thought of the day

Calling the diverse group of very inclusive people that created and maintain the internet a group of Nazis because they are removing a group that actually does have nazi and white supremacist ideology is some 5d chess for sure.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142389 - 01/11/21 04:50 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:


State Action Requirement

Definition
The state action requirement refers to the requirement that in order for a plaintiff to have standing to sue over a law being violated, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the government (local, state, or federal), was responsible for the violation, rather than a private actor.

Overview
This requirement only applies when the law in question requires the government to have acted.

This state action requirement extends to a number of actions.





Quote:


First Amendment
The First Amendment states that β€œ[c]ongress shall make no law” infringing upon the freedoms of speech and religion. Because of this requirement, it is impossible for a purely private party to violate this Amendment. 

Discrimination
In Edmonson, the Supreme Court wrote that "discrimination, though invidious in all contexts, violates the Constitution only when it may be attributed to state action."





https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/state_action_requirement





Yep, states can't make laws that violate the first amendment, but that doesn't say that legislation can't extend those rights to social media platforms, being that it is the most modern type of public forums. The State action is in regard to laws, not policies or whims. It's policies and whims that govern social media currently. It would be rights being violated rather than a law, in the case of unjust censorship. And if Social media was beholden to our first amendment rights we should be able to sue them for violating it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142439 - 01/11/21 05:25 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

What you're missing is that social media are under the purview of private companies. As Enlil has pointed out, it is the first amendment right of those companies to exclude whatever speech on their platforms that they wish. Facebook and Twitter's policies in silencing Trump are very much in accord with the first amendment. It is their right to restrict speech on their private platforms. In the case of those platforms, what goes out is essentially their speech.

There is really no conflict here.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27142482 - 01/11/21 05:49 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
What you're missing is that social media are under the purview of private companies. As Enlil has pointed out, it is the first amendment right of those companies to exclude whatever speech on their platforms that they wish. Facebook and Twitter's policies in silencing Trump are very much in accord with the first amendment. It is their right to restrict speech on their private platforms. In the case of those platforms, what goes out is essentially their speech.

There is really no conflict here.




Wait what? Is Bodhi enlil?

Ok so the Supreme Court ruled in MANHATTAN COMMUNITY ACCESS CORP. ET AL. v. HALLECK ET AL. on  June 17, 2019;

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/17-1702_h315.pdf

Ruled that providing the platform in and of itself wasn't enough to constitute being considered a "government actor", that's not to say that if the sole purpose of the platform is to provide that service/forum, <- that that, isn't enough to be qualified as a government actor. It was also a split decision 5-4.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142499 - 01/11/21 06:01 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

So really, the question is, what is "enough" to have them be qualified as state actors? (also it was the conservative's decision FYI)


Edited by teknix (01/11/21 06:35 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142516 - 01/11/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Enlil is the Shroomery's resident law expert. You'll find him in the politics sub. I have no idea what would make a private company qualify as a government actor, but everything that has happened thus far, everything Facebook and Twitter are doing, is totally within the law.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27142520 - 01/11/21 06:24 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah it is within the law, that's the problem. They are Public Forums and should be treated as such by the law.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142526 - 01/11/21 06:29 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

That would only apply if it were government-run social media. So I recommend you start a campaign to create nationalized social media. Then censorship definitely would be illegal. Otherwise it's not.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27142541 - 01/11/21 06:45 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

In United States law, a state actor is a person who is acting on behalf of a governmental body, and is therefore subject to regulation under the United States Bill of Rights, including the First, Fifth, and Fourteenth Amendments.

Corporate personhood makes the corporation a person, and that person is providing public forums for the people.

"The producers contend that the relevant function here is more generally the operation of a public forum for speech, which, they claim, is a traditional, exclusive public function. But that analysis mistakenly ignores the threshold state-action question. Providing some kind of forum for speech is not an activity that only governmental entities have traditionally performed. Therefore, a private entity who provides a forum for speech is not transformed by that fact alone
into a state actor. "

You realize this was lost by 1 vote right? It is definitely up for debate.

The Social Media are providing a *modern* FORUMS, because the government isn't. :P

The right wing basically squelched our rights on our most modern forums.

All the content on all these social media outlets are made by the people (user generated), the media is just hosting them and providing them a way to share it, because the government is failing to do so.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27142545 - 01/11/21 06:53 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Losing by one vote is still losing. I don't know what else to tell you. The law and its execution makes perfect sense to me in this case.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27142551 - 01/11/21 06:58 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

You don't have to tell me anything :smile:

I think that by providing the service of a public forum for profit they should also be liable to uphold the rights of a public forums. Especially if they are afforded those protections. They want their cake and eat it too. The above ruling isn't ruling out the possibility of making social media honor our rights at all.

" none of
which converts a private entity into a state actorβ€”unless the private
entity is performing a traditional, exclusive public function
. "


Edited by teknix (01/11/21 07:06 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
    #27143066 - 01/12/21 01:46 AM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Any of these by themselves wouldn't constitute a state/government actor for a public forums, but when taken in totality I think it could/should/does;

1. Provides a platform for public communication. (Forums) (As main purpose/service)

2. User generated content

3. Generates Revenue through ads.

4. Publicly traded


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* PFM Public Forum Movement. Mitchnast 941 7 02/01/04 06:13 AM
by fireworks_god
* HipHop and social r/evolution
( 1 2 3 all )
atomikfunksoldier 4,278 54 06/01/03 04:53 PM
by Grav
* Info on Mass Media Effects: The Hypodermic Needle Model Grav 916 2 06/09/04 01:07 PM
by Grav
* Public Sex and Nudity
( 1 2 3 4 all )
gettinjiggywithit 7,436 78 03/04/05 12:00 AM
by vampirism
* Art,philosophy, graffiti
( 1 2 all )
falcon 2,551 37 01/25/04 08:59 AM
by falcon
* Avoiding the media: the results of a personal experiment Anonymous 1,218 18 09/26/04 10:27 PM
by SpecialEd
* Social SpecialEd 817 7 03/29/04 01:43 PM
by vade
* Sex and media.
( 1 2 all )
Phluck 3,491 35 12/23/02 08:47 PM
by Anonymous

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,681 topic views. 0 members, 12 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.