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 teknix
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 Social Media as Public Forums  1
#27141280 - 01/11/21 04:53 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Social media is our modern form of communication, and I would like to posit that as such, it should be afforded the rights of Public Forums and afford 1st amendment rights to its users. (within reason) Moderation for spam and such is reasonable, censorship is not. I don't like Trump really, but i think he should have the right to communicate by modern means.
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bodhisatta  
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
#27141285 - 01/11/21 05:04 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Free speech doesn't mean you get to use any private microphone.
If the government shut down twitter because they didn't like what we were saying that would be a violation of first amendment rights.
If a bar kicks you out for saying something stupid that is not a violation of your rights. Being a big corporation doesn't change the rules
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teknix
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta] 2
#27141289 - 01/11/21 05:09 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I can use what I pay for, and I'm paying for it by their ads :P
And their ads are using the bandwidth of the internet I do pay for.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: teknix]
#27141295 - 01/11/21 05:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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obviously paying for the use of something after agreeing to an EULA, means you do not have any rights except those in the EULA which is designed to protect the platform not the user.
having observed the insurrection at the capitol, some responsibility has been injected into the system by muzzling the most dangerous liar at large.
expect more good conversations on this matter, and keep your own nose clean.
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 Sugabearcrisp
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta] 3
#27141300 - 01/11/21 05:34 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Free speech doesn't mean you get to use any private microphone.
If the government shut down twitter because they didn't like what we were saying that would be a violation of first amendment rights.
If a bar kicks you out for saying something stupid that is not a violation of your rights. Being a big corporation doesn't change the rules
The problem with this logic is that section 230 gives these private companies protections as a public forum, which renders them no longer private.
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VP123
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said:
The problem with this logic is that section 230 gives these private companies protections as a public forum, which renders them no longer private.
The means to create such public forums and accessing them (servers, software, etc) remains private.
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bodhisatta
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Quote:
Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Free speech doesn't mean you get to use any private microphone.
If the government shut down twitter because they didn't like what we were saying that would be a violation of first amendment rights.
If a bar kicks you out for saying something stupid that is not a violation of your rights. Being a big corporation doesn't change the rules
The problem with this logic is that section 230 gives these private companies protections as a public forum, which renders them no longer private.
Wrong. It grants them protections from being sued for things their users say. That doesn't make them no longer private.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
#27141459 - 01/11/21 08:21 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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that is what has to be sorted out.
the first steps into the social media arena including all BBS systems and forums has flaws that we have to be willing to fix.
it is guaranteed that the creators of the web did not have pre-existing awareness of the arrival of Qanon, and 4chan etc.
We knew facebook was bad but everyone embraced it to some extent and must now reconsider that position.
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bodhisatta
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It's crazy to me conservatives want to socialize the private media platforms once they get banned or censored
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bodhisatta
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
#27141469 - 01/11/21 08:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Trump is just the gay wedding cake of social media
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VP123
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
it is guaranteed that the creators of the web did not have pre-existing awareness of the arrival of Qanon, and 4chan etc.
But a parallel can be drawn to other public dissemination vehicles. Even before the internet existed there were radio and TV stations that allowed some people to expose their ideas. The thing is, I have not right to impose myself on those companies (ABC, CBS, etc) to use their channels to express my ideas. This can only happen with a mutual agreement with them. It is no different. The only difference it that it is a lot cheaper with the internet and this makes it more accessible.
Edited by VP123 (01/11/21 08:35 AM)
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bodhisatta
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: VP123]
#27141502 - 01/11/21 08:43 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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The post office sends drugs every day. They're not prosecuted for it the people who put the drugs in the mail are. Section 230 offered the same protections to online media platforms.
Same with TV and radio as said above. "These views don't represent us" but eventually even a network can yank the plug on programming they disagree with.
Free speech doesn't mean I can call up BET and demand they show footage of white supremacist rallies
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Sugabearcrisp
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta] 1
#27141583 - 01/11/21 09:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Trump is just the gay wedding cake of social media
This has yet to be fully ruled on by the courts and has the added component of religous freedom. Social media is not claiming religious protection.
The parallels are there though, social media offers a platform as a product, baker offers a cake as a product, both want to be able to not provide their publicly offered service to an aribitrarily defined group.
The other difference is section 230, while I agree it doesn't make them public (poor wording on me) the intention was clearly to allow for platforms that facilitate content and communication, without holding providers to the rules a publisher would be subject to. The first question is at what point does a platform become a publisher and if still a platform how loose can it's rules be? Can a platform make arbitrary decisions based on subjective interpretations and not become and editor and therefore a publisher of the content?
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bodhisatta
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Section 230 doesn't take away a private companies ability to make arbitrary decisions. It's only protection from under-moderation.
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yeah
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
#27141784 - 01/11/21 11:05 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Free speech doesn't mean you get to use any private microphone.
If the government shut down twitter because they didn't like what we were saying that would be a violation of first amendment rights.
If a bar kicks you out for saying something stupid that is not a violation of your rights. Being a big corporation doesn't change the rules
shit like twitter and instagram is an integral part of modern life, dude
sure you can go make your own, but no one will use it
pretending otherwise is simply justification for using censorship to protect your ideology
also this
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Edited by yeah (01/11/21 11:08 AM)
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yeah
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
#27141799 - 01/11/21 11:10 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
It's crazy to me conservatives want to socialize the private media platforms once they get banned or censored
well, some of us do want to take back socialism from the left 
I think I just called myself conservative which isn't totally true
I definitely lean left on some ways but I do think there are immutable truths to existence which contradict leftism in general
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Edited by yeah (01/11/21 11:12 AM)
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bodhisatta
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: yeah]
#27141809 - 01/11/21 11:13 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Problem with that meme is social media never used to exist. it's not some right to get to post on the internet let alone media platforms hosted on the internet. You can go in your front yard with a megaphone if you wish.
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Lion
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums *DELETED* [Re: redgreenvines] 1
#27141835 - 01/11/21 11:23 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Lion
Reason for deletion: .
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โStrengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that Iโve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I willโ
and I will have the will, strengthened
as Iโll be with contemplation and studyโ
at the crucial moments Iโll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.โ
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redgreenvines
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: bodhisatta]
#27141944 - 01/11/21 12:33 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
The post office sends drugs every day. They're not prosecuted for it the people who put the drugs in the mail are. Section 230 offered the same protections to online media platforms.
Same with TV and radio as said above. "These views don't represent us" but eventually even a network can yank the plug on programming they disagree with.
Free speech doesn't mean I can call up BET and demand they show footage of white supremacist rallies
We are little people. Big companies are made of little people.
Countries are made of even more little people.
Free speech is an interesting privilege that has been termed a right with little clarification in some countries. When the megaphone expanded this privilege to enable speaking to larger gatherings, then we reached the epitome of free speech opportunities for the little people.
For superstars, however, and media darlings the wider exposure has always been due to the press, only now the press is entangled with Facebook etc. so it is wonky and not how legislators ever imagined.
The very idea of getting only the news you want to read, and not even seeing headlines that would broaden your mind is hostile to the future of human intelligence.
Free broadcasting, however, never existed, and it should not exist like free speech, in order to manage norms, propaganda, and abuse of this larger stage where one voice can speak simultaneously to millions of people. it is not a megaphone it is a gigaphone, and it has to be used responsibly or removed from the abusers.
The old laws never considered how unbalancing a lunatic with a gigaphone can be.
I hope Nancy and the new regime can bring some sanity to the situation.
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redgreenvines
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Re: Social Media as Public Forums [Re: Lion]
#27141946 - 01/11/21 12:34 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
obviously paying for the use of something after agreeing to an EULA, means you do not have any rights except those in the EULA which is designed to protect the platform not the user.
having observed the insurrection at the capitol, some responsibility has been injected into the system by muzzling the most dangerous liar at large.
expect more good conversations on this matter, and keep your own nose clean.
Yet the Chinese Communist Party is allowed to freely propagandize regarding its genocide of Uighurs on Twitter. The dystopian theocracies of Iran and Saudi Arabia have unfettered access - Iran despite not even allowing its own citizens to use Twitter.
It isn't good that every major tech company has teamed up to de-platform the current sitting president and many individuals and platforms deemed sympathetic or remotely adjacent to his views. It's a sign of further descent into the mire of omnipresent digital surveillance and techno-authoritarianism.
you must clarify this with the big Tweet, straighten him out. mean time I never go to Twitter, the format is inane.
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