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Invisiblemicelio
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Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags * 1
    #27140297 - 01/10/21 05:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags

Meaning: Growing In bags without adding colonize grain to the coir/verm.

In this write up I'm not claiming that not adding colonize grain is a better way to grow.

My method overview:

1) I will be using Unicorn large spawn bags to grow in.
2) Boiled oats goes straight from the pot to the qt. jars with a five second  strain with a hand strainer. Put the jar lid on and let cool.
3) When oats are cool down inject 60ml. LC. Into the jar of oats.


4) put 750g. hydrated coir verm. into the spawn bag and tie top close with twine.
5) Coir/verm. bag  goes into the microwave for 3min. then another 3min.
6) Add oats to grow bag when everything has cooled down, tie wrap top of bag.
7) Grow bag should be 100% colonized in 12 days.  Harvest in appox. 20 to 23 days.
8) Cut the top of bag off and put bag in monotub to start the fruiting cycle.

Wow..!  No pc  No bucket tek

Items you'll need:
1) Large spawn bag 0.5 filter 2.2 mil PP  (Unicorn spawn bag) Is what I use)
2) Gram scale.
3) microwave oven.
4) Hand strainer.
5) Quart mason jar.
6) twine to tie the bag close.
7) sandwich bags (non zip) optional.
8) Funnel to aid in getting boiled grain in jar quickly.
9)  Liquid Culture..
10) Flow hood or SAB.

While I was making up ten bags of coir verm. with my ten jars of colonized oats I decided to try something new. I had this experiment In mind for sometime now and I had enough coir verm leftover to do one bag.

Here's some Pic's:

Boiling oats for 36 min.
36 min from the time I turned on the flame to the time I tuned off the flame.



I cut the oats in half with a pair of scissors. If the grain shows white they're not cooked yet.

When they're's no more white they are ready.





Oats strained for five seconds and placed in jar while above 180* f.





Oats dry wt. 275g.
463g wet wt. per jar.



While oat jar Is cooling, It's time to sterilize some coir. (not pasteurize but sterilize)
I start by loading the large spawn bag with 750g. of hydrated coir/verm.
Tie the top closed and microwave for three min. do a visual then go another 3 to 4 minutes.

It's a good idea to run microwave with a cup of water or a jelly jar as In the picture since the bag and hydrated coir Is not that much moisture/water for the micro wave to safely be operated.






Substrate gets plenty hot..



I use a cheap sandwich bags for protection on my bags and jars from contaminate. even through the microwave cycle.
Here's a recent  pic. of 4 bags..



Time now to add 60ml. LC. to the oats, now that they're cooled down.
(No pics of adding the lc to the jar of oats)

I let the lc soak in the oats for a few hours, rotating the jars while they are in a horizontal position.





Oats added to bag and bag rotated with a mild shake to mix oat into the coir/verm..





My Liquid Cultures are very fast growing.
Just a note on my LC. broth:
4% broth.
1000ml. water
20 grams malt extract
20 grams dextrose (corn sugar)

I use salsa jars.
I make up 7 jars at a time with 140ml. per jar.
I noc. up the jars with 5ml. clean Lc. per jar.
I don't test the Lc. for contaminates.
If the Lc. is clear and no mold floating on the surface In eight days, It's a go.







One 6/64 inch drill hole with masking tape. Just that simple.
All transfers are done with a 60ml. syringe.



Nine days old.
Can you tell which bag is spawnless and which one has a jar of spawn?




The bag on the left was noc. up with one jar of spawn.
The bag on the right is the spawnless. (no spawn).

Both bags at 22 days





Day 23 first flush spanwless ready for harvest..







I got allot of my Ideas from Blue Helix

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26977498/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/18


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Edited by micelio (01/15/21 12:45 PM)


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27140339 - 01/10/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I don't see how you're getting the oats hot enough to kill bacterial endospores here? Boiling = 100c, endospore death = 116c. Mold will die though.

Unless I guess your LC is just simply outrunning any bacterial colonies. I suppose.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27140432 - 01/10/21 06:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think endospores are a problem that much with oats compared to some of the other grains.
Actual boiling time would be maybe 15 to 20 minutes.


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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27140781 - 01/10/21 09:03 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

This is neat 👌


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27140792 - 01/10/21 09:07 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm confused as to what makes this spawnless. Aren't you adding mycelium and grains to coir and verm?

Interesting tek if this works out for ya but why are you microwaving your coir/verm?


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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27140809 - 01/10/21 09:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Looks like he's knocking up his grains with LC, rolling it around for a bit and then dumping into coir. I think blue helix just sterilizes all-in-ones and shoots a fuckload of LC into em. Similar steez.


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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #27140811 - 01/10/21 09:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Whats your contam rate


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Invisiblemind.at.large
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #27140829 - 01/10/21 09:19 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I totally get loading it all up into a bag, sterilizing, then inoculating with LC. That makes sense. But I'm still confused as to the point of the microwave. And it totally seems like the method for grain "sterilizing" would usually lead to contamination.

If it works for you micello, good for you.


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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27140836 - 01/10/21 09:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah why did you decide to do the grains and sub separate? If you're gonna go this route seems like all-in-ones would be ideal


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
    #27140876 - 01/10/21 09:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mind.at.large said:
I'm confused as to what makes this spawnless. Aren't you adding mycelium and grains to coir and verm?

Interesting tek if this works out for ya but why are you microwaving your coir/verm?




If you think about this, I not waiting two or three weeks for a jar of oat to fully colonize.

No pc.
No bucket tek..

I'm sterilizing the the coir/verm. to kill any contaminates. It gives the Lc. time to colonize the grain In the sub.

I haven't been doing this method for long.  I was successful with the one bag.
I have four other bag that are a week old and looking very healthy.

It's been allot of fun and there's potentially a new way of growing in a much shorter time period.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #27140895 - 01/10/21 09:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
Looks like he's knocking up his grains with LC, rolling it around for a bit and then dumping into coir. I think blue helix just sterilizes all-in-ones and shoots a fuckload of LC into em. Similar steez.




Yes your right.
I did three bags that way and ended up with three bags of mold.

Why dump all that Lc. into the coir? Why not dump less Lc. direct to the grain and then to the coir?


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Edited by micelio (01/10/21 09:49 PM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #27140906 - 01/10/21 09:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
Whats your contam rate




No contamination yet.. (5 bags)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: The Fresh Prints]
    #27140930 - 01/10/21 10:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Genghis Chron said:
Yeah why did you decide to do the grains and sub separate? If you're gonna go this route seems like all-in-ones would be ideal




I wanted to saturate the grain with clean Lc. and go direct to the coir.

Like what I was saying this is an experiment.

I tried Blue Helix way at 65% moisture to the bag. I ended up with three bags of mold and that was a 6 pound bag at five hours In the pc.
With 145ml. of Lc.

I been growing In bags for 2 years now. So this style of growing Is right up my alley.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27141292 - 01/11/21 05:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Blue Helix just did a thread where he boasted about doing something like this then threw his hands in the air because all his tubs went green and he blamed a piece of moldy fruit 10 feet away from his monotubs.

So I dunno I'm glad it's working for you and you were able to tweak what he was doing so you didn't get mold.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27141403 - 01/11/21 07:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Blue Helix Is doing 7 lbs. bags of manure 4-5 hours pc time then dumping large amount of lc. into the sub. When colonize they're dumped into trays.

So you can see my method Is different.

As long as I have a clean lc. I doubt I'll have much of a contaminate problem.

I'm sure there's many of ways to improve my method.

I'll make a list later on all the pros of bag growing.


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Edited by micelio (01/11/21 07:49 AM)


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27141421 - 01/11/21 07:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Keep it rollin' if the contamination rate is low you're doing great. It'll be interesting to see how those other bags turn out for sure. What size filter patch is on your bags?  .2, .5 or 5 micron? Edit: I see 0.5 there yeah

Your LC recipe seems insanely nute heavy, I've seen that before. For the life of me I can't remember where but I tried it and got so much sediment I never went back. Perhaps I should try it again as I've got ELME and Dextrose here.

Friend of mine told me about using the 20/20 malt/dex recipe. He knows his shit that's for sure.

Everything we do is about outrunning contamination and competitors so I mean I guess I understand the theory behind this. Gonna be awful hard for competitor molds and bacteria to outrun 60ml of LC for 1 quart of spawn. Coirs naturally contamination resistant so would be hard for anything to grab a foothold there.. I dunno, maybe I'll buy up some more bags and give it a try.


Edited by starbones (01/11/21 08:02 AM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27141434 - 01/11/21 08:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Hey..!
There's nothing wrong with heavy sediment. It's all food for the cultures. The lc. will clear up with time..


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27141446 - 01/11/21 08:11 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Where's the cheap sandwich bag thing you're mentioning? I don't see it or how it is being used in your methods here.

I think I have a unicorn 0.5 bag laying around to give this a shot with.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27141495 - 01/11/21 08:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

These bags are dirt cheap down here In Mexico.
They're sandwich bags without the zipper.
I use them all day long for many of reasons.

While the coir verm. Is cooling down after the microwave cycle I cover the top of the bags to keep the bag opening (top of bag) free from any of contaminates falling on or into the bag. So when I dump the grain into the bag I know that there's no contaminates will get into the bag..

I cover the grain jars also to protect the lid and threads. see pictures above.. 




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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27141534 - 01/11/21 09:07 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Rule one: Is the KISS Rule. Keep It simple stupid.


This Is the style jar I been using.

The jar is 6" tall (the length of a dollar bill)

The jar has a 2" dia. opening.

The jars had salsa in them, I like salsa with my corn chips so I'm getting a deal.. Ha



I toss out all my filters and injection ports, too much clutter.

Just one 6/64" drill hole so my 16 gauge needle just fits snug.

I cut a piece of masking tape and cover the hole.

Before I pc the jars I loosen all the jar lids a little.

After pc cycle I tighten the lids while jars are hot. Then wait for the security button to click on the jar lids as they cool down and pull a vacuum.

The jars are now under a vacuum waiting to be inoculated. After the jars are noc. up I cut a piece of masking tape and cover the hole.

One important note: If you jab the hole with the needle while jar Is under a vacuum You'll find yourself with an empty syringe real quick.
Poke a hole in the tape over the hole to let the vacuum out of the jar first.


To aspirate the lc is a simple process of placing the jar in a horizontal position keeping the hole just above the fluid level.

There should be enough air seep in through the same hole to not create a vacuum inside the jar that the needle is in. Also this should be done in a sab or in the flow. (LFH)



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