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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, HEPA Filter, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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OfflineKast
old hand
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes?
    #271405 - 03/14/01 03:57 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

That doesn't sound like a half-bad idea Shroomism. Keep us posted.



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Anonymous

Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: Kast]
    #271526 - 03/14/01 09:44 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Take the lid off. Innoculate. Put lid back on.

It's that easy. No holes, no tape, no HEPA air filters, no gloveboxes, no oven teks, just a little common sense is all tha is needed. No cooking odours, no mouldy loafs of bread laying around, no dirty dishes and get rid of that corpse in the corner!

Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.sunshine.net/www/1700/sn1730


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InvisibleDakrath
journeyman
Registered: 09/09/00
Posts: 6
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes?
    #271533 - 03/14/01 10:08 AM (16 years, 12 days ago)

Yes that sounds very familiar. Thanks!



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OfflineMNmyc
enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 175
Loc: MN
Last seen: 10 years, 12 days
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes?
    #271730 - 03/14/01 04:28 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

The problems you are referring to is a result of not flipping the lid upside down or piercing it. It causes a vacuum that literally sucks in contaminated air when you open it to innoculate. Also, lowering pressure on a pressure cooker too fast can cause your jars to boil over, screwing up the volume of water in your substrate.

Help... I'm typing and I can't shut-up!


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Life is what happens while you're making other plans...


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InvisibleDakrath
journeyman
Registered: 09/09/00
Posts: 6
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: MNmyc]
    #271732 - 03/14/01 04:33 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

well, if you have tape on the lids when u sterilize and then remove them to innoculate, this will be the same as not putting holes, and when u remove the lid to poke the syringe thru the foil and innoculate.

i think the "air rush" problem occurs only if u try to innoculate when the jar is still warm right, coz there will be a difference in jar temp/room remp right?



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Offlinetoadlicker
member

Registered: 02/27/01
Posts: 92
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: Dakrath]
    #271745 - 03/14/01 04:54 PM (16 years, 12 days ago)

I do just what you described but with holes in the lid. That way you do not get a seal and all you do to innoculate is puncture the foil through the holes.

"Toad-licking is also known as lily-padding, frenching the prince and doing Kermit." Newscaster


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OfflineKast
old hand
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: toadlicker]
    #271937 - 03/14/01 09:34 PM (16 years, 11 days ago)

The vacuum is only created when the jars lids has no holes and is screwed down tightly with the sealing portion of the lid down (like it's supposed to be for canning). You can avoid the vacuum by not screwing the lid tightly. With the PF tek, the air isn't the major source of contaminants in my opinion. The vermiculite seal does its job pretty damn well; Your most likely risk of contamination is going to come from the inoculant, or the needle. So be sure to have a sterile syringe and sterilize the needle as often as possible. A glove-box helps to keep the needle sterile as the lack of floating contaminant spores decreases the likelihood of the needle becoming contaminated.

The foil is an uneccesary step unless you've had contamination problems in the past and you're sure the "air" was the culprit. The reason I'm more drawn to the foil idea is because punching holes in lids is not only annoying and time-consuming, it makes the lids rust much quicker.



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Anonymous

Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: Kast]
    #276447 - 03/22/01 06:21 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Ok well I would like to post some results I've had recently using jars without holes compared to with holes.

I did 30 half-pint jars using birdseed and vermiculite. 15 had holes in lids, 15 did not. I topped the jar off with coarse vermiculite, then covered with a double-layer of aluminum foil, then put lid on and pressure cooked jars at 15 psi for 1 hour.
I innoculated each jar using about 2 ccs per jar, (very saturated syringe) inside a glovebox, just removed the lid, and innoculated right through the foil, then put lid back on. Jars with holes I innoculated through the lid.
Put jars in box which is inside a larger rubbermaid with 2" of water on the bottom, and heated by a water heater. Jars were kept at 84 degrees.
After 3 days, mycelium growth was apparent in 8 jars.
At 5 days, there was heavy mycelium growth in 20 jars, 15 of which were without holes. (All of the jars without holes)
At 10 days, all jars had mycelium growth except two. The jars without holes are 70-80% colonized. Jars with holes are about 50%.
Day 12- Dark green contamination strikes, appears in 8 jars overnight. Killed jars. 5 jars with holes, 3 without.
Day 14- Growth in jars without holes seemed to slow down after reaching 90% colonization. Jars with holes are still steadily growing.
Day 20- All remaining jars are 100% colonized except for three jars. Two never showed any growth, and the third is still colonizing at about 70%.
I think that the jars without holes did better to resist contamination, but in the later stages of colonizing slowed down a bit due to lack of oxygen. This was compensated by loosening the lids a bit. The jars with holes grew at the same speed, but seemed to finish colonizing a bit earlier than the other jars.
Overall I think there is not much of a difference whether there is holes or not, but the ones with holes seem to contaminate easier. It is a matter of preferance really.
I think putting the foil over the vermiculite is a very good method, and will continue using it.




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Anonymous

Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: ]
    #276483 - 03/22/01 08:43 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

I can't believe you guys go to all this trouble with holes and fol and tape and flame sterilization...its all overkill!
The air is not nearly as contaminated as some people think. It isn't contaminated at all unless you have some mouldy bread around or something.

All I do is take the lid off and innoculate. I never have problems unless it started with the spores.
And I've proven this to myself a thousand times.

Its all overkill!

Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.sunshine.net/www/1700/sn1730


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Offlineemetheus
enthusiast
Registered: 10/26/00
Posts: 149
Last seen: 15 years, 10 months
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: ]
    #276488 - 03/22/01 08:49 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

open your mind, mad max.
environments vary from place to place.
folks out in the arid southwest US have far fewer contam problems than folks in the swamplands of the gulf coast.
etc.
what works great up there in canada might not be good enough for someone in the midwest.

Visit http://mycotopia.yage.net


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Visit http://mycotopia.yage.net


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Anonymous

Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: emetheus]
    #276511 - 03/22/01 09:35 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Yeah...
I live right next to Washington DC, the air here really isn't the cleanest. I always have problems with contamination, and I take many steps to be sanitary. (Pressure cook jars, clean hands/clothes, HEPA air filter in room, lysol, Innoculate in glovebox, sterilize needle after each innoculation with alcohol flame)
I still run into problems with contams, I think they just can't be avoided as some areas are more saturated with pollen and foreign spores than others.



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Invisiblear393
old timer
Male
Registered: 01/27/00
Posts: 696
Loc: NYC, NY, US
Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes?
    #276547 - 03/22/01 11:34 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

thats exaclty what my left nuts cousins grandfathers seamonkey does, works like a charm, never has to deal with tape or worry about water getting in. and if you are worried about contams coming through the hole, just rotate your lid (it kinda works like the tops of those small parmasian cheese bottles.



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Anonymous

Re: Sealing Jar w/o holes? [Re: ar393]
    #276556 - 03/22/01 11:55 AM (16 years, 4 days ago)

Thats prolly where your problem lies. Too many steps. To many opportunities for things to go wrong.

Keep it simple, I can't believe your air is that dirty. There is way more vegetation around where I live, I'm surrounded by forests but still get no problems even though I'm sure there are way more pollen and spores in the air.

Of course, if you live next door to some plant putting out tons of smoke into the air every day, .maybe you've got a point but I don't think to many people live in areas like that. In fact, I'm sure half the people here live in small towns like my own.

Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.sunshine.net/www/1700/sn1730


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, HEPA Filter, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite, Wild Bird Seed

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