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micelio
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Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags 1
#27140297 - 01/10/21 05:54 PM (3 years, 18 days ago) |
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Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags
Meaning: Growing In bags without adding colonize grain to the coir/verm.
In this write up I'm not claiming that not adding colonize grain is a better way to grow.
My method overview:
1) I will be using Unicorn large spawn bags to grow in. 2) Boiled oats goes straight from the pot to the qt. jars with a five second strain with a hand strainer. Put the jar lid on and let cool. 3) When oats are cool down inject 60ml. LC. Into the jar of oats.
4) put 750g. hydrated coir verm. into the spawn bag and tie top close with twine. 5) Coir/verm. bag goes into the microwave for 3min. then another 3min. 6) Add oats to grow bag when everything has cooled down, tie wrap top of bag. 7) Grow bag should be 100% colonized in 12 days. Harvest in appox. 20 to 23 days. 8) Cut the top of bag off and put bag in monotub to start the fruiting cycle.
Wow..! No pc No bucket tek
Items you'll need: 1) Large spawn bag 0.5 filter 2.2 mil PP (Unicorn spawn bag) Is what I use) 2) Gram scale. 3) microwave oven. 4) Hand strainer. 5) Quart mason jar. 6) twine to tie the bag close. 7) sandwich bags (non zip) optional. 8) Funnel to aid in getting boiled grain in jar quickly. 9) Liquid Culture.. 10) Flow hood or SAB.
While I was making up ten bags of coir verm. with my ten jars of colonized oats I decided to try something new. I had this experiment In mind for sometime now and I had enough coir verm leftover to do one bag.
Here's some Pic's:
Boiling oats for 36 min. 36 min from the time I turned on the flame to the time I tuned off the flame.

I cut the oats in half with a pair of scissors. If the grain shows white they're not cooked yet.
When they're's no more white they are ready.


Oats strained for five seconds and placed in jar while above 180* f.


Oats dry wt. 275g. 463g wet wt. per jar.

While oat jar Is cooling, It's time to sterilize some coir. (not pasteurize but sterilize) I start by loading the large spawn bag with 750g. of hydrated coir/verm. Tie the top closed and microwave for three min. do a visual then go another 3 to 4 minutes.
It's a good idea to run microwave with a cup of water or a jelly jar as In the picture since the bag and hydrated coir Is not that much moisture/water for the micro wave to safely be operated.


Substrate gets plenty hot..

I use a cheap sandwich bags for protection on my bags and jars from contaminate. even through the microwave cycle. Here's a recent pic. of 4 bags..

Time now to add 60ml. LC. to the oats, now that they're cooled down. (No pics of adding the lc to the jar of oats)
I let the lc soak in the oats for a few hours, rotating the jars while they are in a horizontal position.


Oats added to bag and bag rotated with a mild shake to mix oat into the coir/verm..


My Liquid Cultures are very fast growing. Just a note on my LC. broth: 4% broth. 1000ml. water 20 grams malt extract 20 grams dextrose (corn sugar)
I use salsa jars. I make up 7 jars at a time with 140ml. per jar. I noc. up the jars with 5ml. clean Lc. per jar. I don't test the Lc. for contaminates. If the Lc. is clear and no mold floating on the surface In eight days, It's a go.



One 6/64 inch drill hole with masking tape. Just that simple. All transfers are done with a 60ml. syringe.

Nine days old. Can you tell which bag is spawnless and which one has a jar of spawn?

The bag on the left was noc. up with one jar of spawn. The bag on the right is the spawnless. (no spawn).
Both bags at 22 days


Day 23 first flush spanwless ready for harvest..



I got allot of my Ideas from Blue Helix
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26977498/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/18
Edited by micelio (01/15/21 12:45 PM)
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27140339 - 01/10/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 18 days ago) |
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I don't see how you're getting the oats hot enough to kill bacterial endospores here? Boiling = 100c, endospore death = 116c. Mold will die though.
Unless I guess your LC is just simply outrunning any bacterial colonies. I suppose.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27140432 - 01/10/21 06:49 PM (3 years, 18 days ago) |
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I don't think endospores are a problem that much with oats compared to some of the other grains. Actual boiling time would be maybe 15 to 20 minutes.
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27140781 - 01/10/21 09:03 PM (3 years, 18 days ago) |
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This is neat š
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mind.at.large
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27140792 - 01/10/21 09:07 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I'm confused as to what makes this spawnless. Aren't you adding mycelium and grains to coir and verm?
Interesting tek if this works out for ya but why are you microwaving your coir/verm?
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27140809 - 01/10/21 09:13 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Looks like he's knocking up his grains with LC, rolling it around for a bit and then dumping into coir. I think blue helix just sterilizes all-in-ones and shoots a fuckload of LC into em. Similar steez.
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Whats your contam rate
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mind.at.large
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Yeah I totally get loading it all up into a bag, sterilizing, then inoculating with LC. That makes sense. But I'm still confused as to the point of the microwave. And it totally seems like the method for grain "sterilizing" would usually lead to contamination.
If it works for you micello, good for you.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27140836 - 01/10/21 09:23 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Yeah why did you decide to do the grains and sub separate? If you're gonna go this route seems like all-in-ones would be ideal
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27140876 - 01/10/21 09:39 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: I'm confused as to what makes this spawnless. Aren't you adding mycelium and grains to coir and verm?
Interesting tek if this works out for ya but why are you microwaving your coir/verm?
If you think about this, I not waiting two or three weeks for a jar of oat to fully colonize.
No pc. No bucket tek..
I'm sterilizing the the coir/verm. to kill any contaminates. It gives the Lc. time to colonize the grain In the sub.
I haven't been doing this method for long. I was successful with the one bag. I have four other bag that are a week old and looking very healthy.
It's been allot of fun and there's potentially a new way of growing in a much shorter time period.
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micelio
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Quote:
Genghis Chron said: Looks like he's knocking up his grains with LC, rolling it around for a bit and then dumping into coir. I think blue helix just sterilizes all-in-ones and shoots a fuckload of LC into em. Similar steez.
Yes your right. I did three bags that way and ended up with three bags of mold.
Why dump all that Lc. into the coir? Why not dump less Lc. direct to the grain and then to the coir?
Edited by micelio (01/10/21 09:49 PM)
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micelio
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Quote:
Genghis Chron said: Whats your contam rate
No contamination yet.. (5 bags)
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micelio
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Quote:
Genghis Chron said: Yeah why did you decide to do the grains and sub separate? If you're gonna go this route seems like all-in-ones would be ideal
I wanted to saturate the grain with clean Lc. and go direct to the coir.
Like what I was saying this is an experiment.
I tried Blue Helix way at 65% moisture to the bag. I ended up with three bags of mold and that was a 6 pound bag at five hours In the pc. With 145ml. of Lc.
I been growing In bags for 2 years now. So this style of growing Is right up my alley.
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141292 - 01/11/21 05:17 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Blue Helix just did a thread where he boasted about doing something like this then threw his hands in the air because all his tubs went green and he blamed a piece of moldy fruit 10 feet away from his monotubs.
So I dunno I'm glad it's working for you and you were able to tweak what he was doing so you didn't get mold.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141403 - 01/11/21 07:45 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Blue Helix Is doing 7 lbs. bags of manure 4-5 hours pc time then dumping large amount of lc. into the sub. When colonize they're dumped into trays.
So you can see my method Is different.
As long as I have a clean lc. I doubt I'll have much of a contaminate problem.
I'm sure there's many of ways to improve my method.
I'll make a list later on all the pros of bag growing.
Edited by micelio (01/11/21 07:49 AM)
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141421 - 01/11/21 07:52 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Keep it rollin' if the contamination rate is low you're doing great. It'll be interesting to see how those other bags turn out for sure. What size filter patch is on your bags? .2, .5 or 5 micron? Edit: I see 0.5 there yeah
Your LC recipe seems insanely nute heavy, I've seen that before. For the life of me I can't remember where but I tried it and got so much sediment I never went back. Perhaps I should try it again as I've got ELME and Dextrose here.
Friend of mine told me about using the 20/20 malt/dex recipe. He knows his shit that's for sure.
Everything we do is about outrunning contamination and competitors so I mean I guess I understand the theory behind this. Gonna be awful hard for competitor molds and bacteria to outrun 60ml of LC for 1 quart of spawn. Coirs naturally contamination resistant so would be hard for anything to grab a foothold there.. I dunno, maybe I'll buy up some more bags and give it a try.
Edited by starbones (01/11/21 08:02 AM)
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141434 - 01/11/21 08:01 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Hey..! There's nothing wrong with heavy sediment. It's all food for the cultures. The lc. will clear up with time..
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141446 - 01/11/21 08:11 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Where's the cheap sandwich bag thing you're mentioning? I don't see it or how it is being used in your methods here.
I think I have a unicorn 0.5 bag laying around to give this a shot with.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141495 - 01/11/21 08:40 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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These bags are dirt cheap down here In Mexico. They're sandwich bags without the zipper. I use them all day long for many of reasons.
While the coir verm. Is cooling down after the microwave cycle I cover the top of the bags to keep the bag opening (top of bag) free from any of contaminates falling on or into the bag. So when I dump the grain into the bag I know that there's no contaminates will get into the bag..
I cover the grain jars also to protect the lid and threads. see pictures above..
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141534 - 01/11/21 09:07 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Rule one: Is the KISS Rule. Keep It simple stupid.
This Is the style jar I been using.
The jar is 6" tall (the length of a dollar bill)
The jar has a 2" dia. opening.
The jars had salsa in them, I like salsa with my corn chips so I'm getting a deal.. Ha

I toss out all my filters and injection ports, too much clutter.
Just one 6/64" drill hole so my 16 gauge needle just fits snug.
I cut a piece of masking tape and cover the hole.
Before I pc the jars I loosen all the jar lids a little.
After pc cycle I tighten the lids while jars are hot. Then wait for the security button to click on the jar lids as they cool down and pull a vacuum.
The jars are now under a vacuum waiting to be inoculated. After the jars are noc. up I cut a piece of masking tape and cover the hole.
One important note: If you jab the hole with the needle while jar Is under a vacuum You'll find yourself with an empty syringe real quick. Poke a hole in the tape over the hole to let the vacuum out of the jar first.
To aspirate the lc is a simple process of placing the jar in a horizontal position keeping the hole just above the fluid level.
There should be enough air seep in through the same hole to not create a vacuum inside the jar that the needle is in. Also this should be done in a sab or in the flow. (LFH)
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141644 - 01/11/21 09:56 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Okay so I'm gonna bite on this but not with using bags and by adhering to my belief that this works simply because you're outrunning any contamination.
I grow in PP5 quart containers.
My experiment on this one will be to reduce the volumes of substrate and oats to work in a 1qt vessel, I'll provide GE with a 1/4" GE hole with double layered micropore tape on it.
I will microwave the CVG inside the PP5 in the microwave, lid on. Then remove it to my flowhood. I will prep a small amount of oats, inoculate like you do. I'll add the oats to the CVG once everythings cool and then give it a gentle shake and let it colonize.
All things being equal this should be the same thing you're doing.
I'll work out all the weights today and go from there.
Edit: Fuck it I'll just do 1:1 since your substrate weight was only 750g and you're adding 450+ of oats +60ml of LC. This is more grain than I usually use and I don't think this saves me any time. One 2 hour PC run lets me make 30 bottles. Bags yeah, maybe. Will just be a proof of concept thing for me is all.
Let's gooooooooooooooo.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (01/11/21 10:12 AM)
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mind.at.large
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141738 - 01/11/21 10:37 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Iām still confused as to the purpose of microwaving the substrate? What is that accomplishing?
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141792 - 01/11/21 11:07 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Okay so I'm gonna bite on this but not with using bags and by adhering to my belief that this works simply because you're outrunning any contamination.
I grow in PP5 quart containers.
My experiment on this one will be to reduce the volumes of substrate and oats to work in a 1qt vessel, I'll provide GE with a 1/4" GE hole with double layered micropore tape on it.
I will microwave the CVG inside the PP5 in the microwave, lid on. Then remove it to my flowhood. I will prep a small amount of oats, inoculate like you do. I'll add the oats to the CVG once everythings cool and then give it a gentle shake and let it colonize.
All things being equal this should be the same thing you're doing.
I'll work out all the weights today and go from there.
Edit: Fuck it I'll just do 1:1 since your substrate weight was only 750g and you're adding 450+ of oats +60ml of LC. This is more grain than I usually use and I don't think this saves me any time. One 2 hour PC run lets me make 30 bottles. Bags yeah, maybe. Will just be a proof of concept thing for me is all.
Let's gooooooooooooooo.
Beautiful.. I like your way of thinking..
I'm looking forward to following your project. If your lc Is clean you'll have success.
Actually the more I think about It quart pp5 Is a very nice way of doing It.
What I like about bags Is I can cut the plastic bag down below the sub level. It gives me allot more area and I don't have to worry about side pin getting all screwed up.
I wonder If you can pull your colonize sub out of the pp5 container to add to the growing area ? Just thinking out loud..
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27141822 - 01/11/21 11:20 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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He says it's hitting sterilization temperatures which I guess is important since he's introducing lots of nutrition and vulnerable grains to the mix. I guess he's killing mold and bacteria.
My guess is that we're going back to what I was saying earlier. This is just a method for outrunning competitor microbes. Bacterial endospores are still present but bacteria and mold should both be dead in both the oats and the substrate. So when he introduces a full quart of oats dripping with 60ml of LC then the mycelium has a big head start on anything else.
And yeah, my LC is flawless.
Honestly I don't see why you're not just hydrating the oats then tossing those in with the substrate before you nuke them then putting your LC directly to the bag? Not sure what putting the LC on the oats and then putting the oats into the bag accomplishes.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (01/11/21 11:24 AM)
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27141882 - 01/11/21 11:46 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: Iām still confused as to the purpose of microwaving the substrate? What is that accomplishing?
If I was using colonize jar of grain (spawn) I would pasteurize the coir verm.
I'm adding non colonize grain to my coir verm. so I'm sterilize the the cv.
The microwave Is a nice fast way to sterilize the cv without the hassle of a pc.
I been sterilizing my lc. broth In the microwave and having success, but that's not part of my tek.
If you think about It, wouldn't It be nice to grow without messing with a pc.?
So far I been able to cut a few weeks off the time It takes to colonize a spawn jar.
I been able to do It without using a pc.
This Is still an experiment that I see promising.
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141920 - 01/11/21 12:08 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Are you using a microwave to sterilize your agar and LC too?
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141996 - 01/11/21 12:56 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: He says it's hitting sterilization temperatures which I guess is important since he's introducing lots of nutrition and vulnerable grains to the mix. I guess he's killing mold and bacteria.
My guess is that we're going back to what I was saying earlier. This is just a method for outrunning competitor microbes. Bacterial endospores are still present but bacteria and mold should both be dead in both the oats and the substrate. So when he introduces a full quart of oats dripping with 60ml of LC then the mycelium has a big head start on anything else.
And yeah, my LC is flawless.
Honestly I don't see why you're not just hydrating the oats then tossing those in with the substrate before you nuke them then putting your LC directly to the bag? Not sure what putting the LC on the oats and then putting the oats into the bag accomplishes.
I am hydrating the oats. go to the top and look at the first pic. The oats get a 36 minutes in the pot start to finish. I'm not nuking the oats, just a regular oat prep. I'm nuking the coir verm.
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142005 - 01/11/21 01:01 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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You misunderstood me.
You're putting the LC in the jar with the hydrated oats. I'm asking why after the oats are done and the substrate is done why not just throw the oats in and then the LC.
Instead of LC->Oats->Bag It's Oats->Bag then cover it all in the LC.
Sorry for the confusion at all I was just wondering why not apply the LC to the oats and CVG at the same time?
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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142009 - 01/11/21 01:04 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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These 4 no spawn bags are at 8 days..


These bags have oat spawn.
They aren't looking as good as the spawnless..

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micelio
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Quote:
Genghis Chron said: Are you using a microwave to sterilize your agar and LC too?
I'm just experimenting with microwave my broth.
first I spray down my microwave with:

Nuke jar without cap with ziploc sandwich bag.
On 3min. off 3min. on 1min. off 3min. on 1min. done
Meantime cap and magnetic stir bar is in boiling water. I use a pair of tweezers to place cap on jar. careful everything Is very hot. I start with 150ml. broth. After the nuking I loose 50ml. in evaporation. So take that in account and add 50ml. more when you start.
Remember this is just an experiment.


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micelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27142134 - 01/11/21 02:16 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: You misunderstood me.
You're putting the LC in the jar with the hydrated oats. I'm asking why after the oats are done and the substrate is done why not just throw the oats in and then the LC.
Instead of LC->Oats->Bag It's Oats->Bag then cover it all in the LC.
Sorry for the confusion at all I was just wondering why not apply the LC to the oats and CVG at the same time?
I did 3 bags pouring lc to the sub and I ended up with three bags of mold. PitcherCrab Did two bags and they went to mold.
My boiled oats jars are filled 3/4 full.(myco size jars) After the injection of lc. the oats swell up to where the jars are full. squirting lc on the substrate In my opinion Is a waist and would make the sub too wet.
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mind.at.large
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142141 - 01/11/21 02:21 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Youāre making some bold claims with some pretty small sample sizes. ā5 bags went moldy so therefore this technique is a waste of time! But my 5 bags using my technique have worked so therefore my method is superiorā
You gotta use this method with success way more than 5 times to claim itās better than a method that many great mushroom cultivators use. Putting LC to a sterilized substrate in a bag is a tried and true technique that extends beyond cube growers.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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starbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142150 - 01/11/21 02:26 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Well alright, I'll stick to the formula for this test.
If I can make it work in one of my pp5 unbottles and it produces faster, if at all then I'll order some bags and give that a shot. If it works it works. I need to see weights being pulled from these bags though and how many flushes per bag. I'll give the pp5 a shot but for pp5s a PC is quicker. So let's roll.
I'm willing to give this a shot on a small scale with the understanding that literally everything we do is simply outrunning contamination so on paper this sort of makes sense but I guess we'll see.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27142165 - 01/11/21 02:36 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I pulled 298 grams wet last night from the spawnless bag. Normally My second flush out performs my first flush.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27143401 - 01/12/21 09:21 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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The reason I started growing In spawn bags a couple of years ago Is I got tired to loosing mono tubs to trich.
Since I started using bags I just don't see the green as much. Maybe It's possible that my substrate doesn't get as hot in bags.
If I do get trich In a bag, no big deal. I just isolate that bag. I don't loose a full tub.
It's easy to see the result of each of my clones since I only use one spawn jar to each bag.
After I get a good pin set going I cut the bag down below the substrate level so side pins has room to grow without getting all screwed up. Sometimes I don't cut the bags down until I get my first flush, that works also. But after the first flush I cut the bag down. When I do cut the bag down I gain allot more growing area.
It's very easy to harvest when you can set a bag on the table and chop away.
Cleanup Is easy. What I do Is get a large trash bag and toss my grow bags in it. I rag down my tubs that the bags where in. There always some spores that needs to be cleanup.
All In all It cost me less for growing In bags compared to loosing all the material and time and labor loss to trich in mono tubs.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27144318 - 01/12/21 06:08 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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100% colonize In 9 days Without spawn..(4 bags)
9 days ago the coir was In a 10 lb. block the vermiculite was still In the bag and the oats was In boiling water...
I have 6 bags I started 9 days ago that I used colonize jars of oat spawn and they are lagging by 3-4 days.
These 4 bags are the no spawn. Amazing eh!
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27145390 - 01/13/21 08:59 AM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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I spray down all my grain jars with peroxide and vinegar before I load them.
*Best cheapest sanitizing agent I have found is one mist bottle full of white vinegar, another mist bottle full of H202. Spray one on, wait a minute, spray other on, wait a minute, wipe down with clean paper towels (doesnāt matter which is sprayed on - first). That combo will KILL...E-Coli, Salmonella, Aids & host of almost all other nasty stuff, including mold spores.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16473915#16473915
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27148014 - 01/14/21 03:42 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Keep it rollin' if the contamination rate is low you're doing great. It'll be interesting to see how those other bags turn out for sure. What size filter patch is on your bags? .2, .5 or 5 micron? Edit: I see 0.5 there yeah
Your LC recipe seems insanely nute heavy, I've seen that before. For the life of me I can't remember where but I tried it and got so much sediment I never went back. Perhaps I should try it again as I've got ELME and Dextrose here.
Friend of mine told me about using the 20/20 malt/dex recipe. He knows his shit that's for sure.
Everything we do is about outrunning contamination and competitors so I mean I guess I understand the theory behind this. Gonna be awful hard for competitor molds and bacteria to outrun 60ml of LC for 1 quart of spawn. Coirs naturally contamination resistant so would be hard for anything to grab a foothold there.. I dunno, maybe I'll buy up some more bags and give it a try.
I'm sorry I glance over your question. I'm using the .5 filter patch on my bags.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27149741 - 01/15/21 01:01 PM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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I made up 12 bags. one of the bags I'll use a jar of spawn for comparison.
Here's a pic. of the grain jars soaking with lc. before It gets dumped into the coir verm. bags...
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27149767 - 01/15/21 01:25 PM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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This is interesting.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: filthyknees]
#27150562 - 01/15/21 09:29 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Yes this is sure interesting to me too.
If a person has the lc already to go the rest Is very fast and easy to do.
Yesterday morning I decided to make up 12 bags and with a few hour they're all done.
I had no pc time no drying the grain out no waiting a few weeks for the spawn jars to fully colonize.
No bucket tek that takes over night to cool down and In nine days they should be a 100% colonize like my last four bags..
Here's a Pic. of lc. jars. Many of small batches Is the way to go for me..
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27150615 - 01/15/21 09:57 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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I've got clean LC just finding the time for this is the problem. Really looking to see if I can work the same thing with bottles that you're doing even though it would be inefficient for the way that I grow.
More interested just to see if it works for bottles is all.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27150638 - 01/15/21 10:11 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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I never have done the bottle tek, but I can see It working with out much problem.. I hope you give It a try and keep your progress updated..
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27157041 - 01/19/21 09:00 AM (3 years, 9 days ago) |
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Grain soaked with lc added to coir/verm...
4 bags no spawn.
Day 16 first sign of pinning.
Edited by micelio (01/19/21 09:46 AM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27163200 - 01/22/21 10:13 AM (3 years, 6 days ago) |
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No Spawn...
Day 19..
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27167232 - 01/24/21 01:00 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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No spawn..
Day 21..
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junk_f00d


Registered: 12/04/15
Posts: 933
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27167268 - 01/24/21 01:20 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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I've had success growing like this as well (though I prefer free-pouring, hate syringes), it's fun and probably the fastest way to test a culture or side step some contam issues you're actively debugging. I'm going to try it with the blenderless LI next, so I don't have to wait for LC to colonize. Then I should be going from an agar plate to a dehydrator pretty dang fast.. I get big fruits too and multiple flushes generally.
My process may be a little different, I just basically act like I'm prepping a mono and hydrate coir (maybe a little on the dry side so I can dump some liquid in there), but then put it in a bag with an appropriate amount of prepared grain on top (I don't mix until after inoculation). PC, remove, inoculate, mix (or wait until the grains are more colonized then mix), seal then wait. Once the grains are safe to experience filthy fresh air, cut top off bag and then I top layer with some coir for an even surface and wait for fruit.
Downside is that to get the same yields as a monotub, you have to PC a monotubs worth of sub. So it's not super bulk friendly unless you've got a fat autoclave or faith in an atmospheric sterilizer.
Edited by junk_f00d (01/24/21 01:28 PM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: junk_f00d]
#27167843 - 01/24/21 07:12 PM (3 years, 4 days ago) |
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Your right about syringes are a pain.
The last 12 grain jars I noc. up by pouring.
I weighed the loaded grain jars with the lid, on a gram scale. When I'm ready to pour I place the lid on the scale pour my 60 grams/ml. into the grain jar put the lid back on as fast as I can and do another grain jar the same way.
Now I should have 25 ml. left over In the lc. jar. Then I use a syringe to bring the lc jar back up to 145 ml. with fresh broth.
I have 35 jars going at the time and I'm finding it to be easy to locate a contaminated jar.
My lc jars are either very clear or turbid.
If the lc. jar Is turbid (possible bacteria) I don't use it and set to the side to see if It clears up In the future.
I'm always looking for mold that seems to always float to the surface and turn green In a few days.
I don't mess with testing my lc. on agar..
4% broth..
1000 ml. water. 20 grams malt extract. 20 grams dextrose.




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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27169018 - 01/25/21 12:16 PM (3 years, 3 days ago) |
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No Spawn..
22 days from start to finish.
Minus I already had the liquid culture made.
Total wet weight on first flush: 1,192 grams. (4 bags)
Approximate dry wt. @ 90% moisture loss: 119 grams. 4.25 oz.



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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27169439 - 01/25/21 04:25 PM (3 years, 3 days ago) |
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Subbed so I can read later
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EagerNoob42
Trying my best


Registered: 09/07/20
Posts: 270
Loc: Frogstar World B
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27169631 - 01/25/21 06:07 PM (3 years, 3 days ago) |
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Everything about this seems completely fucked at first, yet lo and behold.....
Edited by EagerNoob42 (01/25/21 06:07 PM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: EagerNoob42]
#27169673 - 01/25/21 06:24 PM (3 years, 3 days ago) |
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Quote:
EagerNoob42 said: Everything about this seems completely fucked at first, yet lo and behold.....
Yes...!
I know what you me mean Ha..
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27174107 - 01/28/21 06:57 AM (3 years, 14 hours ago) |
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Has the jar you put the oats in been sterilized at all? I mean the physical jar itself or are you counting on the heat of the oats to nuke as much bacteria and mold spore/myc as possible?
Trying something a little different at the moment but in a similar vein
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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0ptiquest
Stranger


Registered: 07/05/20
Posts: 509
Last seen: 7 days, 11 hours
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27174229 - 01/28/21 08:50 AM (3 years, 12 hours ago) |
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Really nice results. Dont like the tek a lot but the fact you do you all this without a PC is impressive for me.
I will keep doing LC to grains to tubs anyways, with the LC ready, you can have the spawn full colonized in 5-6 days with shaking and then 15-16 days to harvest so i get similar times from start to harvest.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27175005 - 01/28/21 05:47 PM (3 years, 3 hours ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Has the jar you put the oats in been sterilized at all? I mean the physical jar itself or are you counting on the heat of the oats to nuke as much bacteria and mold spore/myc as possible?
Trying something a little different at the moment but in a similar vein
I wash the jars with soap and water.
I also have 2 spray bottles one with H2O2 (peroxide) and one bottle with vinegar That I spray the lids jars and anything else that need to be sanitize.
DISINFECTANT
*Vinegar and Hydrogen Peroxide as Disinfectants By Judy Stouffer, B.S., M.S., SFO You can make your kitchen a cleaner, safer place and fight bacteria, without exposing yourself and your family to toxic chemicals that also damage the environment. You can use a simple safe disinfecting spray that is more effective than any of the commercial cleaners in killing bacteria. As a bonus, it is inexpensive! Susan Sumner, a food scientist at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, worked out the recipe for just such a sanitizing combo. All you need is three percent hydrogen peroxide, the same strength available at the drug store for gargling or disinfecting wounds, and plain white or apple cider vinegar, and a pair of brand new clean sprayers, like the kind you use to dampen laundry before ironing. If you're cleaning vegetables or fruit, just sprits them well first with both the vinegar and the hydrogen peroxide, and then rinse them off under running water. It doesn't matter which you use first - you can spray with the vinegar then the hydrogen peroxide, or with the hydrogen peroxide followed by the vinegar. You won't get any lingering taste of vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, and neither is toxic to you if a small amount remains on the produce. As a bonus: The paired sprays work exceptionally well in sanitizing counters and other food preparation surfaces -- including wood cutting boards. In tests run at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, pairing the two mists killed virtually all Salmonella, Shigella, or E. coli bacteria on heavily contaminated food and surfaces when used in this fashion, making this spray combination more effective at killing these potentially lethal bacteria than chlorine bleach or any commercially available kitchen cleaner. The best results came from using one mist right after the other - it is 10 times more effective than using either spray by itself and more effective than mixing the vinegar and hydrogen peroxide in one sprayer. Science News August 8, 1998; Vol. 154, Issue. 6; pg. 83-85 DISINFECTANT SCIENCE
*Best cheapest sanitizing agent I have found is one mist bottle full of white vinegar, another mist bottle full of H202. Spray one on, wait a minute, spray other on, wait a minute, wipe down with clean paper towels (doesnāt matter which is sprayed on - first). That combo will KILL...E-Coli, Salmonella, Aids & host of almost all other nasty stuff, including mold spores. Just prior to using any tray, or container -- alc swab with 70% alc & allow to evap. 70% alc is MORE EFFECTIVE, as evap time is longer than higher % alc. SANITIZING STERILIZER
*Sanitize means to reduce the number of contaminants to a safe or relatively safe level as may be judged by public health requirements. Disinfect means elimination of all recognized pathogenic microorganism but not necessarily all microbial forms. Sterilize means the destruction of all microbial life by use of chemical or physical procedures. DISINFECTANTS
*White vinegar in one spray bottle. 3% peroxide in another spray bottle. Spray one on, give it a moment, spray the other on, give it a few moments.... then wipe down with clean cloth. Cheap & effective to disinfect anything. DISINFECTANT CHEAP
*ALSO Buying in bulk bottles, then filling a spray mist bottle, is a LOT cheaper than buying Lysol in spray cans. Agar is FRUGAL. SANITIZING STERILIZER
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6601628#6601628
Edited by micelio (01/28/21 05:53 PM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: 0ptiquest]
#27175032 - 01/28/21 05:57 PM (3 years, 3 hours ago) |
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Nice to hear your comment.. I appreciate your feed back...
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gt40
I will proof smthng



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 502
Last seen: 8 days, 3 hours
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27175525 - 01/29/21 03:22 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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sorry, but I missing something. If you add colonized grain to substrate why it's spawnless?
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tombosley8
Full on... Bossley Baggins



Registered: 10/14/13
Posts: 3,660
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: gt40]
#27175659 - 01/29/21 06:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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this is uncolonized grain (and unsterilized as well) being soaked in lc for hours and then dumped into bags of coir. Not colonized spawn.
I find this very interesting that you don't have to sterilize the grain. Kind of revolutionary IMO. Great work! and good yield too considering there must be a good amount of bacteria in the grain. I like it. It's like bosley bags but unsterilized and way better written plus less steps.
the only thing I have an issue with is the grain and how you load it and all and I'm mind boggled it doesn't turn to shit from not being sterilized. would be nice to see a video of the loading process... so I'm imagining pulling enough grain for a jar out of the boiling pot into the strainer and then immedialy scooping it up and into the jar and capping it?
then let cool in front of flow hood? and do these have filters on the lids?
Sorry just wanted to sub for reference but I"m getting all sucked in.
--------------------
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: tombosley8]
#27176146 - 01/29/21 12:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
gt40 said: sorry, but I missing something. If you add colonized grain to substrate why it's spawnless?
Quote:
tombosley8 said: this is uncolonized grain (and unsterilized as well) being soaked in lc for hours and then dumped into bags of coir. Not colonized spawn.
I find this very interesting that you don't have to sterilize the grain. Kind of revolutionary IMO. Great work! and good yield too considering there must be a good amount of bacteria in the grain. I like it. It's like bosley bags but unsterilized and way better written plus less steps.
the only thing I have an issue with is the grain and how you load it and all and I'm mind boggled it doesn't turn to shit from not being sterilized. would be nice to see a video of the loading process... so I'm imagining pulling enough grain for a jar out of the boiling pot into the strainer and then immedialy scooping it up and into the jar and capping it?
then let cool in front of flow hood? and do these have filters on the lids?
Sorry just wanted to sub for reference but I"m getting all sucked in.
The oats are In boiling water for approximately 20 min. and transferred to the jars as quick as possible since this is done In open air. (all done In temperatures above 180 degrees)
Yes there's filters on the lids, but since the grain Is in the jars for only a few hours, filters on the lid are not necessary.
With using oats I imagine endospores wouldn't be that much of a problem compared to other grains.
The funnel is cut down so it just fits inside the jar rim for fast loading.
What I like about this system Is:
If I decided I wanted to make up 12 bags today, In approximately 4 to five hours I'm done. That's if I have the LC ready to go.
45 min. 12 bottles filled with prep. oats.
30 minutes to hydrate coir and verm. (I used boiling water last time. it makes mixing faster. also I use a big Ice chest to mix In. I find It to be better than a bucket.)
10 min. to load and nuke each bag with a couple of minutes to let the microwave to cool down between bags. Total of 2 hours. In the mean time grain jars are cooling down.
30 min. to load LC. into grain jars.
30 min. to load grain/LC. into bags of coir/verm..
It's not that complicated after you do It a couple of times and find what works best for you.
I been finding that the spawnless method outperforms bags with spawn made at the same time by a couple of days. I have to do more testing to know for sure.
I hope that people try this method and give their feedback. No telling what direction this method can go with all the creative minds of the Shroomery...
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27189538 - 02/06/21 11:18 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I just harvested 4 bags of the No spawn.
4 bags 962 grams. 22 days total from start to finish..
I have 12 more bags that should be ready for harvest In 10 to 12 days.
I'm having 100% success with the spawnless method so far.
I have 30 jars of colonized spawn that I need to get to. Then I'll put full time to the no spawn growing.
I'll be doing a write up on going spores to LC. broth soon. I have a method I'm working on that's showing real promising results..
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27191516 - 02/07/21 11:32 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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No Spawn
One more bag for 308 grams...
I always average one dry ounce per bag on the first flush or more..
You can think of this no spawn method as:
Making your spawn at the same time your growing.
The bonus Is the mycelium rips throughout the grain and coir at such a rapid rate as If It's the perfect combination.
Another bonus Is you don't need to use a pc for making jars or bags of grain spawn also the time you save on waiting a few weeks for spawn to become 100% colonize..
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
Last seen: 15 days, 7 hours
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27210147 - 02/16/21 09:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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It seems to me this means that you could also modify this method and involve a PC if you do end up with issues with your oats.
I know I have heard people talk about oats being "dirty" compared to some other grains in regard to endospores. This is the first time I have heard someone mention that they have less endospores than others. I have no clue either way, but I don't see how a pc could *lower* success.
1. Prepare and PC 10 jars oats as usual 2. inoculate oats with 60ml LC 3. PC OR Microwave 10 bags cvg 4. Transfer Oats to bags perthis method once bags are cool
So, the normal way of growing in bags, but use heavy LC and only colonize for the hours it takes the bags to cool. Maintain sterile technique when inoculating the bag with grains.
You lose one advantage of this method(no pc) but it seems like you still gain several days in colonization time.
--------------------
Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (02/16/21 09:06 PM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#27210279 - 02/16/21 11:24 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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karri0n It's nice to hear your input.
I thought the reason that oats are so popular Is there less of a endospore problem.
Other types of grain they do a long soak to get the grain to germinate before the boil. Once the grain germinates The heat can penetrate there hard protective shell to kill the endospore. If It wasn't for this protective shield the grain/seeds wouldn't be able to spout after a forest fire or other harsh acts of nature.
I wish someone could or would chime In on this subject that has the knowledge..
I like your thinking. It would be great for someone to come In and try different methods. Maybe try doing 5 jars in the pc and 5 jars of my method of no pc. and compare the yields..
I have not had one bag turn green on me with the no spawn method. My yields are averaging 300 grams wet per bag first flush. (approximate)
I'm not waiting for a second flush I have limiting space.
At this time I can't imagine going back to making spawn. This no spawn method and no pc Is so fast and easy and I end up with the same wt. In yield.
I hope other growers give It a try and share the results.
I been working on improving my LC's method. That's the key to having success with the no spawn method.
6 jars @ 140ml. lc per jar. will make 12 bags. I pull out 120ml. per jar leaving 20ml. in the jar. I then inject back into the jars 120ml. of broth. and In 8 days each jar should be ready for another go round.. You should be able to go for months without any issues..
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
Last seen: 15 days, 7 hours
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27211049 - 02/17/21 11:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Once I get a stable LC running I might give this a shot. I've recently made up some whatman filter and SHIP lids, as my success pouring LC in a SAB hasn't been where I'd like. Plus this takes 6x the LC as usual, so you need to make up quite a bit.
Quote:
micelio said:

I lol'd. Reminds me of an inflated condom
--------------------
Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (02/17/21 11:47 AM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#27218542 - 02/21/21 02:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
karri0n said: Once I get a stable LC running I might give this a shot. I've recently made up some whatman filter and SHIP lids, as my success pouring LC in a SAB hasn't been where I'd like. Plus this takes 6x the LC as usual, so you need to make up quite a bit.
Quote:
micelio said:

I lol'd. Reminds me of an inflated condom
Yes.. bag gets very hot from the steam.
I give It three or four min. to cool down before I pull the bag out. That way It gives the microwave a cool down period.
Yes It takes a lot of Lc. I have more testing to do. I imagine I could cut that amount of Lc In half and still have excellent result..
Once you have a viable Lc. You could do your transfers In open air If your careful and use injection method only.
I store my syringes using vinegar: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27212980#27212980
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27232581 - 03/01/21 07:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Have you ever accidentally melt the coir bag in the microwave?
I too understand Oats to be more difficult with endospores than other grains, unless you talk to the oat faithful... they think the otherwise.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: tedoro]
#27232732 - 03/01/21 08:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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No I have never melted a bag... Those bags can take a lot of heat.(Unicorn bags)
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zMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27232760 - 03/01/21 09:23 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Pretty neat. I might try this once I venture into LCs.
What strain are you running?
I wonder if PE or other slower growing shrooms would work. Also typically PE needs a casing layer so that would be interesting. Might dust everything off and shoot for an LC this weekend and see how it goes.
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: zMan]
#27232796 - 03/01/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm using B+...
I sure welcome others to try this method and give feed back..
It's hard for me to even believe this really does works.
Once you have a clean culture (LC) The rest Is down hill.
You can expand out and have many of jars In a short time without any contamination..
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Bakerboy
Captain

Registered: 03/10/20
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27259870 - 03/19/21 03:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Followed the tek and it works fine! Did 6 bags. In 3 of the bags colonisation was perfect but 3 did not colonise all the way through. It could be that I did not mix the grain through the coir properly.
Was wondering if I should give the bags a shake after a week to distribute mycillium again for better colonisation?
-------------------- There is only now. Everything else is assumed.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: Bakerboy]
#27262138 - 03/20/21 03:28 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure It's not the mixing of grain.
I would lean towards bacteria.
I have found my best bags are when the liquid culture are young and aggressive.
After 35 days their growth seems to level off and then It's down hill.
The culture weakens and and any bacteria takes advantage of the situation. 35 days Is just my rough guess at 4% lc.
Also a factor to the weakening of the culture could be the liquid builds up with a toxin cause from the waste material from the digestion of the sugar the mycelium consumes.
It's a good idea to always stir the lc. to release the surface tension so the lc doesn't starve for oxygen.
Blue Helix has some interesting info... I enjoy reading his write-ups
Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27080531
Also: Some notes about LCs https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26977498/fpart/1/vc/1
Thanks for your feedback on your success doing the spawnless.
I myself really enjoy this method of growing' I have not experience any mold, just slight bacteria problems that I'm working on.
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spicandspawn
Stranger
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27265893 - 03/23/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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appreciate you sharing your experience. ill give it a go and report back if i notice anything interesting between spawn/no spawn method.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: spicandspawn]
#27265993 - 03/23/21 12:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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The method does work but It's only good If you have a clean liquid culture.
I suggest to make sure your lc. Is stirred well before going to the grain. It's a good idea also If you can do a sniff test right before you use It. There's no mistaking the smell of bacteria In your lc. (It's a good habit to get into using the nose.)
If you have any questions, leave a comment or pm. me.
It's nice of you to take interest in the method. I'll be looking forward to your success..
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TonyMushrana
is that a Trich again?



Registered: 03/12/19
Posts: 323
Loc: Mountainly Place
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27271897 - 03/27/21 01:56 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Amazing! 
Funny now that I just got 100qt PC haha
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zMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: TonyMushrana]
#27274833 - 03/29/21 06:10 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
TonyMushrana said: Amazing! 
Funny now that I just got 100qt PC haha
I'm fairly certain if you tried spawning these bags to bulk they wouldn't make it but you can bag fruit even sketchy bags sometimes and get fruits.
3 out of 4 of these bags flushed and like 1 out of the other like 7 tubs flushed, the rest went green (I didn't pc the grain long enough)
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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Floret
Unmodify everything


Registered: 01/02/23
Posts: 260
Loc: underneath the water
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#28133151 - 01/10/23 04:51 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
micelio said: 100% colonize In 9 days Without spawn..(4 bags)
9 days ago the coir was In a 10 lb. block the vermiculite was still In the bag and the oats was In boiling water...
I have 6 bags I started 9 days ago that I used colonize jars of oat spawn and they are lagging by 3-4 days.
I've read that there is a positive correlation between potency and the amount of time it takes for the fruit to grow (i.e., slower growing fruits are more potent). Have you noticed a difference in fruit potency from your spawnless bag experiment vs a slower grow?
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SandwichMan
Student



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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: Floret]
#28133231 - 01/10/23 06:43 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#28133389 - 01/10/23 09:45 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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This is an interesting post
In An adaption of this method that uses a PC you could ditch the jars and cook the grain straight in the pc, use a huge batch of LC to noc the whole thing once it cools, and then use a big sterilized ladle in front of a flow hood to trasfer grain to cvg or manure bags processed in a pasteurizer or atmosteamer
This is really similar to how cordyceps growers do bulk grows. Usually brown rice cooked in instapot with nutrient broth, cooled in front of hood the knocked with hella lc and ladled into sanitized air filtered totes.
This change avoids the possible pitfalls of your method IMO, although i do recognize your success, and I love the speed of this idea and how many steps it skips but Iād still want to PC or at least instapot for the grains
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