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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27191516 - 02/07/21 11:32 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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No Spawn
One more bag for 308 grams...
I always average one dry ounce per bag on the first flush or more..
You can think of this no spawn method as:
Making your spawn at the same time your growing.
The bonus Is the mycelium rips throughout the grain and coir at such a rapid rate as If It's the perfect combination.
Another bonus Is you don't need to use a pc for making jars or bags of grain spawn also the time you save on waiting a few weeks for spawn to become 100% colonize..
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27210147 - 02/16/21 09:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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It seems to me this means that you could also modify this method and involve a PC if you do end up with issues with your oats.
I know I have heard people talk about oats being "dirty" compared to some other grains in regard to endospores. This is the first time I have heard someone mention that they have less endospores than others. I have no clue either way, but I don't see how a pc could *lower* success.
1. Prepare and PC 10 jars oats as usual 2. inoculate oats with 60ml LC 3. PC OR Microwave 10 bags cvg 4. Transfer Oats to bags perthis method once bags are cool
So, the normal way of growing in bags, but use heavy LC and only colonize for the hours it takes the bags to cool. Maintain sterile technique when inoculating the bag with grains.
You lose one advantage of this method(no pc) but it seems like you still gain several days in colonization time.
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Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (02/16/21 09:06 PM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#27210279 - 02/16/21 11:24 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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karri0n It's nice to hear your input.
I thought the reason that oats are so popular Is there less of a endospore problem.
Other types of grain they do a long soak to get the grain to germinate before the boil. Once the grain germinates The heat can penetrate there hard protective shell to kill the endospore. If It wasn't for this protective shield the grain/seeds wouldn't be able to spout after a forest fire or other harsh acts of nature.
I wish someone could or would chime In on this subject that has the knowledge..
I like your thinking. It would be great for someone to come In and try different methods. Maybe try doing 5 jars in the pc and 5 jars of my method of no pc. and compare the yields..
I have not had one bag turn green on me with the no spawn method. My yields are averaging 300 grams wet per bag first flush. (approximate)
I'm not waiting for a second flush I have limiting space.
At this time I can't imagine going back to making spawn. This no spawn method and no pc Is so fast and easy and I end up with the same wt. In yield.
I hope other growers give It a try and share the results.
I been working on improving my LC's method. That's the key to having success with the no spawn method.
6 jars @ 140ml. lc per jar. will make 12 bags. I pull out 120ml. per jar leaving 20ml. in the jar. I then inject back into the jars 120ml. of broth. and In 8 days each jar should be ready for another go round.. You should be able to go for months without any issues..
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karri0n
Mind Traveller



Registered: 08/29/20
Posts: 698
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27211049 - 02/17/21 11:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Once I get a stable LC running I might give this a shot. I've recently made up some whatman filter and SHIP lids, as my success pouring LC in a SAB hasn't been where I'd like. Plus this takes 6x the LC as usual, so you need to make up quite a bit.
Quote:
micelio said:

I lol'd. Reminds me of an inflated condom
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Panaeolus Bisporus
Edited by karri0n (02/17/21 11:47 AM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#27218542 - 02/21/21 02:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
karri0n said: Once I get a stable LC running I might give this a shot. I've recently made up some whatman filter and SHIP lids, as my success pouring LC in a SAB hasn't been where I'd like. Plus this takes 6x the LC as usual, so you need to make up quite a bit.
Quote:
micelio said:

I lol'd. Reminds me of an inflated condom
Yes.. bag gets very hot from the steam.
I give It three or four min. to cool down before I pull the bag out. That way It gives the microwave a cool down period.
Yes It takes a lot of Lc. I have more testing to do. I imagine I could cut that amount of Lc In half and still have excellent result..
Once you have a viable Lc. You could do your transfers In open air If your careful and use injection method only.
I store my syringes using vinegar: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27212980#27212980
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tedoro
ToadStool Tender



Registered: 02/06/15
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27232581 - 03/01/21 07:10 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Have you ever accidentally melt the coir bag in the microwave?
I too understand Oats to be more difficult with endospores than other grains, unless you talk to the oat faithful... they think the otherwise.
-------------------- -------------------- Deep pour soft agar plates-->bags of WBS-->Low Profile Monos Clean spawn thread | Put a thermometer on your PC
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: tedoro]
#27232732 - 03/01/21 08:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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No I have never melted a bag... Those bags can take a lot of heat.(Unicorn bags)
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zMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27232760 - 03/01/21 09:23 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Pretty neat. I might try this once I venture into LCs.
What strain are you running?
I wonder if PE or other slower growing shrooms would work. Also typically PE needs a casing layer so that would be interesting. Might dust everything off and shoot for an LC this weekend and see how it goes.
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: zMan]
#27232796 - 03/01/21 09:42 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm using B+...
I sure welcome others to try this method and give feed back..
It's hard for me to even believe this really does works.
Once you have a clean culture (LC) The rest Is down hill.
You can expand out and have many of jars In a short time without any contamination..
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Bakerboy
Captain

Registered: 03/10/20
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27259870 - 03/19/21 03:27 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Followed the tek and it works fine! Did 6 bags. In 3 of the bags colonisation was perfect but 3 did not colonise all the way through. It could be that I did not mix the grain through the coir properly.
Was wondering if I should give the bags a shake after a week to distribute mycillium again for better colonisation?
-------------------- There is only now. Everything else is assumed.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: Bakerboy]
#27262138 - 03/20/21 03:28 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure It's not the mixing of grain.
I would lean towards bacteria.
I have found my best bags are when the liquid culture are young and aggressive.
After 35 days their growth seems to level off and then It's down hill.
The culture weakens and and any bacteria takes advantage of the situation. 35 days Is just my rough guess at 4% lc.
Also a factor to the weakening of the culture could be the liquid builds up with a toxin cause from the waste material from the digestion of the sugar the mycelium consumes.
It's a good idea to always stir the lc. to release the surface tension so the lc doesn't starve for oxygen.
Blue Helix has some interesting info... I enjoy reading his write-ups
Liquid culture to bulk notes - tips to avoid failure
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27080531
Also: Some notes about LCs https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26977498/fpart/1/vc/1
Thanks for your feedback on your success doing the spawnless.
I myself really enjoy this method of growing' I have not experience any mold, just slight bacteria problems that I'm working on.
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spicandspawn
Stranger
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27265893 - 03/23/21 11:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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appreciate you sharing your experience. ill give it a go and report back if i notice anything interesting between spawn/no spawn method.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: spicandspawn]
#27265993 - 03/23/21 12:22 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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The method does work but It's only good If you have a clean liquid culture.
I suggest to make sure your lc. Is stirred well before going to the grain. It's a good idea also If you can do a sniff test right before you use It. There's no mistaking the smell of bacteria In your lc. (It's a good habit to get into using the nose.)
If you have any questions, leave a comment or pm. me.
It's nice of you to take interest in the method. I'll be looking forward to your success..
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TonyMushrana
is that a Trich again?



Registered: 03/12/19
Posts: 323
Loc: Mountainly Place
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27271897 - 03/27/21 01:56 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Amazing! 
Funny now that I just got 100qt PC haha
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zMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: TonyMushrana]
#27274833 - 03/29/21 06:10 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
TonyMushrana said: Amazing! 
Funny now that I just got 100qt PC haha
I'm fairly certain if you tried spawning these bags to bulk they wouldn't make it but you can bag fruit even sketchy bags sometimes and get fruits.
3 out of 4 of these bags flushed and like 1 out of the other like 7 tubs flushed, the rest went green (I didn't pc the grain long enough)
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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Floret
Unmodify everything


Registered: 01/02/23
Posts: 260
Loc: underneath the water
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#28133151 - 01/10/23 04:51 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
micelio said: 100% colonize In 9 days Without spawn..(4 bags)
9 days ago the coir was In a 10 lb. block the vermiculite was still In the bag and the oats was In boiling water...
I have 6 bags I started 9 days ago that I used colonize jars of oat spawn and they are lagging by 3-4 days.
I've read that there is a positive correlation between potency and the amount of time it takes for the fruit to grow (i.e., slower growing fruits are more potent). Have you noticed a difference in fruit potency from your spawnless bag experiment vs a slower grow?
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SandwichMan
Student



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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: Floret]
#28133231 - 01/10/23 06:43 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: karri0n]
#28133389 - 01/10/23 09:45 AM (1 year, 18 days ago) |
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This is an interesting post
In An adaption of this method that uses a PC you could ditch the jars and cook the grain straight in the pc, use a huge batch of LC to noc the whole thing once it cools, and then use a big sterilized ladle in front of a flow hood to trasfer grain to cvg or manure bags processed in a pasteurizer or atmosteamer
This is really similar to how cordyceps growers do bulk grows. Usually brown rice cooked in instapot with nutrient broth, cooled in front of hood the knocked with hella lc and ladled into sanitized air filtered totes.
This change avoids the possible pitfalls of your method IMO, although i do recognize your success, and I love the speed of this idea and how many steps it skips but Iād still want to PC or at least instapot for the grains
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