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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: filthyknees]
    #27150562 - 01/15/21 09:29 PM (3 years, 13 days ago)

Yes this is sure interesting to me too.

If a person has the lc already to go the rest Is very fast and easy to do.

Yesterday morning I decided to make up 12 bags and with a few hour they're all done.

I had no pc time no drying the grain out no waiting a few weeks for the spawn jars to fully colonize.

No bucket tek that takes over night to cool down and In nine days they should be a 100% colonize like my last four bags..

Here's a Pic. of lc. jars. Many of small batches Is the way to go for me..



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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27150615 - 01/15/21 09:57 PM (3 years, 12 days ago)

I've got clean LC just finding the time for this is the problem.
Really looking to see if I can work the same thing with bottles that you're doing even though it would be inefficient for the way that I grow.

More interested just to see if it works for bottles is all.


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Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.




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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27150638 - 01/15/21 10:11 PM (3 years, 12 days ago)

I never have done the bottle tek, but I can see It working with out much problem.. I hope you give It a try and keep your progress updated..


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27157041 - 01/19/21 09:00 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Grain soaked with lc added to coir/verm...

4 bags no spawn.

Day 16 first sign of pinning.




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Edited by micelio (01/19/21 09:46 AM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27163200 - 01/22/21 10:13 AM (3 years, 6 days ago)

No Spawn...

Day 19..



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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27167232 - 01/24/21 01:00 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

No spawn..

Day 21..



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Offlinejunk_f00d
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27167268 - 01/24/21 01:20 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

I've had success growing like this as well (though I prefer free-pouring, hate syringes), it's fun and probably the fastest way to test a culture or side step some contam issues you're actively debugging. I'm going to try it with the blenderless LI next, so I don't have to wait for LC to colonize. Then I should be going from an agar plate to a dehydrator pretty dang fast.. I get big fruits too and multiple flushes generally.

My process may be a little different, I just basically act like I'm prepping a mono and hydrate coir (maybe a little on the dry side so I can dump some liquid in there), but then put it in a bag with an appropriate amount of prepared grain on top (I don't mix until after inoculation). PC, remove, inoculate, mix (or wait until the grains are more colonized then mix), seal then wait. Once the grains are safe to experience filthy fresh air, cut top off bag and then I top layer with some coir for an even surface and wait for fruit.

Downside is that to get the same yields as a monotub, you have to PC a monotubs worth of sub. So it's not super bulk friendly unless you've got a fat autoclave or faith in an atmospheric sterilizer.


Edited by junk_f00d (01/24/21 01:28 PM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: junk_f00d]
    #27167843 - 01/24/21 07:12 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

Your right about syringes are a pain.

The last 12 grain jars I noc. up by pouring.

I weighed the loaded grain jars with the lid, on a gram scale. When I'm ready to pour I place the lid on the scale pour my 60 grams/ml. into the grain jar put the lid back on as fast as I can and do another grain jar the same way.

Now I should have 25 ml. left over In the lc. jar. Then I use a syringe to bring the lc jar back up to 145 ml. with fresh broth.

I have 35 jars going at the time and I'm finding it to be easy to locate a contaminated jar.

My lc jars are either very clear or turbid.

If the lc. jar Is turbid (possible bacteria) I don't use it and set to the side to see if It clears up In the future.

I'm always looking for mold that seems to always float to the surface and turn green In a few days.

I don't mess with testing my lc. on agar..

4% broth..

1000 ml. water.
20 grams malt extract.
20 grams dextrose.













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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27169018 - 01/25/21 12:16 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

No Spawn..

22 days from start to finish.

Minus I already had the liquid culture made.

Total wet weight on first flush: 1,192 grams. (4 bags)

Approximate dry wt. @ 90% moisture loss: 119 grams.  4.25 oz.










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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27169439 - 01/25/21 04:25 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Subbed so I can read later :thumbup:


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OfflineEagerNoob42
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27169631 - 01/25/21 06:07 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Everything about this seems completely fucked at first, yet lo and behold.....


Edited by EagerNoob42 (01/25/21 06:07 PM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: EagerNoob42]
    #27169673 - 01/25/21 06:24 PM (3 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

EagerNoob42 said:
Everything about this seems completely fucked at first, yet lo and behold.....





Yes...!

I know what you me mean Ha.. :lol:


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27174107 - 01/28/21 06:57 AM (3 years, 14 hours ago)

Has the jar you put the oats in been sterilized at all? I mean the physical jar itself or are you counting on the heat of the oats to nuke as much bacteria and mold spore/myc as possible?

Trying something a little different at the moment but in a similar vein


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Offline0ptiquest
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27174229 - 01/28/21 08:50 AM (3 years, 12 hours ago)

Really nice results. Dont like the tek a lot but the fact you do you all this without a PC is impressive for me.

I will keep doing LC to grains to tubs anyways,
with the LC ready, you can have the spawn full colonized in 5-6 days with shaking and then 15-16 days to harvest so i get similar times from start to harvest.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
    #27175005 - 01/28/21 05:47 PM (3 years, 3 hours ago)

Quote:

starbones said:
Has the jar you put the oats in been sterilized at all? I mean the physical jar itself or are you counting on the heat of the oats to nuke as much bacteria and mold spore/myc as possible?

Trying something a little different at the moment but in a similar vein




I wash the jars with soap and water.

I also have 2 spray bottles one with H2O2 (peroxide) and one bottle with vinegar That I spray the lids jars and anything else that need to be sanitize.

DISINFECTANT

*Vinegar and Hydrogen Peroxide as Disinfectants
By Judy Stouffer, B.S., M.S., SFO
You can make your kitchen a cleaner, safer place and fight bacteria, without exposing yourself and your family to toxic chemicals that also damage the environment. You can use a simple safe disinfecting spray that is more effective than any of the commercial cleaners in killing bacteria. As a bonus, it is inexpensive!
Susan Sumner, a food scientist at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, worked out the recipe for just such a sanitizing combo. All you need is three percent hydrogen peroxide, the same strength available at the drug store for gargling or disinfecting wounds, and plain white or apple cider vinegar, and a pair of brand new clean sprayers, like the kind you use to dampen laundry before ironing.
If you're cleaning vegetables or fruit, just sprits them well first with both the vinegar and the hydrogen peroxide, and then rinse them off under running water.
It doesn't matter which you use first - you can spray with the vinegar then the hydrogen peroxide, or with the hydrogen peroxide followed by the vinegar. You won't get any lingering taste of vinegar or hydrogen peroxide, and neither is toxic to you if a small amount remains on the produce.
As a bonus: The paired sprays work exceptionally well in sanitizing counters and other food preparation surfaces -- including wood cutting boards.
In tests run at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, pairing the two mists killed virtually all Salmonella, Shigella, or E. coli bacteria on heavily contaminated food and surfaces when used in this fashion, making this spray combination more effective at killing these potentially lethal bacteria than chlorine bleach or any commercially available kitchen cleaner.
The best results came from using one mist right after the other - it is 10 times more effective than using either spray by itself and more effective than mixing the vinegar and hydrogen peroxide in one sprayer.
Science News August 8, 1998; Vol. 154, Issue. 6; pg. 83-85 DISINFECTANT SCIENCE

*Best cheapest sanitizing agent I have found is one mist bottle full of white vinegar, another mist bottle full of H202.
Spray one on, wait a minute, spray other on, wait a minute, wipe down with clean paper towels (doesn’t matter which is sprayed on - first).
That combo will KILL...E-Coli, Salmonella, Aids & host of almost all other nasty stuff, including mold spores.
Just prior to using any tray, or container -- alc swab with 70% alc & allow to evap. 70% alc is MORE EFFECTIVE, as evap time is longer than higher % alc. SANITIZING STERILIZER

*Sanitize means to reduce the number of contaminants to a safe or relatively safe level as may be judged by public health requirements.
Disinfect means elimination of all recognized pathogenic microorganism but not necessarily all microbial forms.
Sterilize means the destruction of all microbial life by use of chemical or physical procedures.  DISINFECTANTS

*White vinegar in one spray bottle. 3% peroxide in another spray bottle. Spray one on, give it a moment, spray the other on, give it a few moments.... then wipe down with clean cloth. Cheap & effective to disinfect anything. DISINFECTANT CHEAP

*ALSO Buying in bulk bottles, then filling a spray mist bottle, is a LOT cheaper than buying Lysol in spray cans. Agar is FRUGAL. SANITIZING STERILIZER

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6601628#6601628


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Edited by micelio (01/28/21 05:53 PM)


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: 0ptiquest]
    #27175032 - 01/28/21 05:57 PM (3 years, 3 hours ago)

Nice to hear your comment.. I appreciate your feed back...


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Offlinegt40
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27175525 - 01/29/21 03:22 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

sorry, but I missing something. If you add colonized grain to substrate why it's spawnless?:rolleyes:


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Offlinetombosley8
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: gt40]
    #27175659 - 01/29/21 06:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

this is uncolonized grain (and unsterilized as well) being soaked in lc for hours and then dumped into bags of coir. Not colonized spawn.

I find this very interesting that you don't have to sterilize the grain. Kind of revolutionary IMO. Great work! and good yield too considering there must be a good amount of bacteria in the grain. I like it. It's like bosley bags but unsterilized and way better written plus less steps.

the only thing I have an issue with is the grain and how you load it and all and I'm mind boggled it doesn't turn to shit from not being sterilized. would be nice to see a video of the loading process... so I'm imagining pulling enough grain for a jar out of the boiling pot into the strainer and then immedialy scooping it up and into the jar and capping it?

then let cool in front of flow hood? and do these have filters on the lids?

Sorry just wanted to sub for reference but I"m getting all sucked in.


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: tombosley8]
    #27176146 - 01/29/21 12:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

gt40 said:
sorry, but I missing something. If you add colonized grain to substrate why it's spawnless?:rolleyes:



Quote:

tombosley8 said:
this is uncolonized grain (and unsterilized as well) being soaked in lc for hours and then dumped into bags of coir. Not colonized spawn.

I find this very interesting that you don't have to sterilize the grain. Kind of revolutionary IMO. Great work! and good yield too considering there must be a good amount of bacteria in the grain. I like it. It's like bosley bags but unsterilized and way better written plus less steps.

the only thing I have an issue with is the grain and how you load it and all and I'm mind boggled it doesn't turn to shit from not being sterilized. would be nice to see a video of the loading process... so I'm imagining pulling enough grain for a jar out of the boiling pot into the strainer and then immedialy scooping it up and into the jar and capping it?

then let cool in front of flow hood? and do these have filters on the lids?

Sorry just wanted to sub for reference but I"m getting all sucked in.





The oats are In boiling water for approximately 20 min. and transferred to the jars as quick as possible since this is done In open air. (all done In temperatures above 180 degrees)

Yes there's filters on the lids, but since the grain Is in the jars for only a few hours, filters on the lid are not necessary.

With using oats I imagine endospores wouldn't be that much of a problem compared to other grains.

The funnel is cut down so it just fits inside the jar rim for fast loading.

What I like about this system Is:

If I decided I wanted to make up 12 bags today, In approximately 4 to five hours I'm done. That's if I have the LC ready to go.

45 min. 12 bottles filled with prep. oats.

30 minutes  to hydrate coir and verm. (I used boiling water last time. it makes mixing faster. also I use a big Ice chest to mix In. I find It to be better than a bucket.)

10 min. to load and nuke each bag with a couple of minutes to let the microwave to cool down between bags.
Total of 2 hours. In the mean time grain jars are cooling down.

30 min. to load LC. into grain jars.

30 min. to load grain/LC. into bags of coir/verm..

It's not that complicated after you do It a couple of times and find what works best for you.

I been finding that the spawnless method outperforms bags with spawn made at the same time by a couple of days. I have to do more testing to know for sure.

I hope that people try this method and give their feedback.
No telling what direction this method can go with all the creative minds of the Shroomery...:lol:


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Invisiblemicelio
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
    #27189538 - 02/06/21 11:18 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I just harvested 4 bags of the No spawn.

4 bags 962 grams. 22 days total from start to finish..

I have 12 more bags that should be ready for harvest In 10 to 12 days.

I'm having 100% success with the spawnless method so far.

I have 30 jars of colonized spawn that I need to get to. Then I'll put full time to the no spawn growing.

I'll be doing a write up on going spores to LC. broth soon. I have a method I'm working on that's showing real promising results..



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