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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141644 - 01/11/21 09:56 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Okay so I'm gonna bite on this but not with using bags and by adhering to my belief that this works simply because you're outrunning any contamination.
I grow in PP5 quart containers.
My experiment on this one will be to reduce the volumes of substrate and oats to work in a 1qt vessel, I'll provide GE with a 1/4" GE hole with double layered micropore tape on it.
I will microwave the CVG inside the PP5 in the microwave, lid on. Then remove it to my flowhood. I will prep a small amount of oats, inoculate like you do. I'll add the oats to the CVG once everythings cool and then give it a gentle shake and let it colonize.
All things being equal this should be the same thing you're doing.
I'll work out all the weights today and go from there.
Edit: Fuck it I'll just do 1:1 since your substrate weight was only 750g and you're adding 450+ of oats +60ml of LC. This is more grain than I usually use and I don't think this saves me any time. One 2 hour PC run lets me make 30 bottles. Bags yeah, maybe. Will just be a proof of concept thing for me is all.
Let's gooooooooooooooo.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (01/11/21 10:12 AM)
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141738 - 01/11/21 10:37 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I’m still confused as to the purpose of microwaving the substrate? What is that accomplishing?
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141792 - 01/11/21 11:07 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Okay so I'm gonna bite on this but not with using bags and by adhering to my belief that this works simply because you're outrunning any contamination.
I grow in PP5 quart containers.
My experiment on this one will be to reduce the volumes of substrate and oats to work in a 1qt vessel, I'll provide GE with a 1/4" GE hole with double layered micropore tape on it.
I will microwave the CVG inside the PP5 in the microwave, lid on. Then remove it to my flowhood. I will prep a small amount of oats, inoculate like you do. I'll add the oats to the CVG once everythings cool and then give it a gentle shake and let it colonize.
All things being equal this should be the same thing you're doing.
I'll work out all the weights today and go from there.
Edit: Fuck it I'll just do 1:1 since your substrate weight was only 750g and you're adding 450+ of oats +60ml of LC. This is more grain than I usually use and I don't think this saves me any time. One 2 hour PC run lets me make 30 bottles. Bags yeah, maybe. Will just be a proof of concept thing for me is all.
Let's gooooooooooooooo.
Beautiful.. I like your way of thinking..
I'm looking forward to following your project. If your lc Is clean you'll have success.
Actually the more I think about It quart pp5 Is a very nice way of doing It.
What I like about bags Is I can cut the plastic bag down below the sub level. It gives me allot more area and I don't have to worry about side pin getting all screwed up.
I wonder If you can pull your colonize sub out of the pp5 container to add to the growing area ? Just thinking out loud..
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27141822 - 01/11/21 11:20 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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He says it's hitting sterilization temperatures which I guess is important since he's introducing lots of nutrition and vulnerable grains to the mix. I guess he's killing mold and bacteria.
My guess is that we're going back to what I was saying earlier. This is just a method for outrunning competitor microbes. Bacterial endospores are still present but bacteria and mold should both be dead in both the oats and the substrate. So when he introduces a full quart of oats dripping with 60ml of LC then the mycelium has a big head start on anything else.
And yeah, my LC is flawless.
Honestly I don't see why you're not just hydrating the oats then tossing those in with the substrate before you nuke them then putting your LC directly to the bag? Not sure what putting the LC on the oats and then putting the oats into the bag accomplishes.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (01/11/21 11:24 AM)
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: mind.at.large]
#27141882 - 01/11/21 11:46 AM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
mind.at.large said: I’m still confused as to the purpose of microwaving the substrate? What is that accomplishing?
If I was using colonize jar of grain (spawn) I would pasteurize the coir verm.
I'm adding non colonize grain to my coir verm. so I'm sterilize the the cv.
The microwave Is a nice fast way to sterilize the cv without the hassle of a pc.
I been sterilizing my lc. broth In the microwave and having success, but that's not part of my tek.
If you think about It, wouldn't It be nice to grow without messing with a pc.?
So far I been able to cut a few weeks off the time It takes to colonize a spawn jar.
I been able to do It without using a pc.
This Is still an experiment that I see promising.
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The Fresh Prints
Smell ya later



Registered: 05/19/12
Posts: 1,377
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27141920 - 01/11/21 12:08 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Are you using a microwave to sterilize your agar and LC too?
--------------------

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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27141996 - 01/11/21 12:56 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: He says it's hitting sterilization temperatures which I guess is important since he's introducing lots of nutrition and vulnerable grains to the mix. I guess he's killing mold and bacteria.
My guess is that we're going back to what I was saying earlier. This is just a method for outrunning competitor microbes. Bacterial endospores are still present but bacteria and mold should both be dead in both the oats and the substrate. So when he introduces a full quart of oats dripping with 60ml of LC then the mycelium has a big head start on anything else.
And yeah, my LC is flawless.
Honestly I don't see why you're not just hydrating the oats then tossing those in with the substrate before you nuke them then putting your LC directly to the bag? Not sure what putting the LC on the oats and then putting the oats into the bag accomplishes.
I am hydrating the oats. go to the top and look at the first pic. The oats get a 36 minutes in the pot start to finish. I'm not nuking the oats, just a regular oat prep. I'm nuking the coir verm.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142005 - 01/11/21 01:01 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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You misunderstood me.
You're putting the LC in the jar with the hydrated oats. I'm asking why after the oats are done and the substrate is done why not just throw the oats in and then the LC.
Instead of LC->Oats->Bag It's Oats->Bag then cover it all in the LC.
Sorry for the confusion at all I was just wondering why not apply the LC to the oats and CVG at the same time?
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142009 - 01/11/21 01:04 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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These 4 no spawn bags are at 8 days..


These bags have oat spawn.
They aren't looking as good as the spawnless..

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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Quote:
Genghis Chron said: Are you using a microwave to sterilize your agar and LC too?
I'm just experimenting with microwave my broth.
first I spray down my microwave with:

Nuke jar without cap with ziploc sandwich bag.
On 3min. off 3min. on 1min. off 3min. on 1min. done
Meantime cap and magnetic stir bar is in boiling water. I use a pair of tweezers to place cap on jar. careful everything Is very hot. I start with 150ml. broth. After the nuking I loose 50ml. in evaporation. So take that in account and add 50ml. more when you start.
Remember this is just an experiment.


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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27142134 - 01/11/21 02:16 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: You misunderstood me.
You're putting the LC in the jar with the hydrated oats. I'm asking why after the oats are done and the substrate is done why not just throw the oats in and then the LC.
Instead of LC->Oats->Bag It's Oats->Bag then cover it all in the LC.
Sorry for the confusion at all I was just wondering why not apply the LC to the oats and CVG at the same time?
I did 3 bags pouring lc to the sub and I ended up with three bags of mold. PitcherCrab Did two bags and they went to mold.
My boiled oats jars are filled 3/4 full.(myco size jars) After the injection of lc. the oats swell up to where the jars are full. squirting lc on the substrate In my opinion Is a waist and would make the sub too wet.
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mind.at.large
Myconerd


Registered: 12/13/16
Posts: 1,218
Loc: Floating in liquid gardens
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142141 - 01/11/21 02:21 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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You’re making some bold claims with some pretty small sample sizes. “5 bags went moldy so therefore this technique is a waste of time! But my 5 bags using my technique have worked so therefore my method is superior”
You gotta use this method with success way more than 5 times to claim it’s better than a method that many great mushroom cultivators use. Putting LC to a sterilized substrate in a bag is a tried and true technique that extends beyond cube growers.
-------------------- Mind's Easy Bag 2 Bag Grain Transfers Endless Sub Tek ...the doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me...
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27142150 - 01/11/21 02:26 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Well alright, I'll stick to the formula for this test.
If I can make it work in one of my pp5 unbottles and it produces faster, if at all then I'll order some bags and give that a shot. If it works it works. I need to see weights being pulled from these bags though and how many flushes per bag. I'll give the pp5 a shot but for pp5s a PC is quicker. So let's roll.
I'm willing to give this a shot on a small scale with the understanding that literally everything we do is simply outrunning contamination so on paper this sort of makes sense but I guess we'll see.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27142165 - 01/11/21 02:36 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I pulled 298 grams wet last night from the spawnless bag. Normally My second flush out performs my first flush.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27143401 - 01/12/21 09:21 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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The reason I started growing In spawn bags a couple of years ago Is I got tired to loosing mono tubs to trich.
Since I started using bags I just don't see the green as much. Maybe It's possible that my substrate doesn't get as hot in bags.
If I do get trich In a bag, no big deal. I just isolate that bag. I don't loose a full tub.
It's easy to see the result of each of my clones since I only use one spawn jar to each bag.
After I get a good pin set going I cut the bag down below the substrate level so side pins has room to grow without getting all screwed up. Sometimes I don't cut the bags down until I get my first flush, that works also. But after the first flush I cut the bag down. When I do cut the bag down I gain allot more growing area.
It's very easy to harvest when you can set a bag on the table and chop away.
Cleanup Is easy. What I do Is get a large trash bag and toss my grow bags in it. I rag down my tubs that the bags where in. There always some spores that needs to be cleanup.
All In all It cost me less for growing In bags compared to loosing all the material and time and labor loss to trich in mono tubs.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27144318 - 01/12/21 06:08 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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100% colonize In 9 days Without spawn..(4 bags)
9 days ago the coir was In a 10 lb. block the vermiculite was still In the bag and the oats was In boiling water...
I have 6 bags I started 9 days ago that I used colonize jars of oat spawn and they are lagging by 3-4 days.
These 4 bags are the no spawn. Amazing eh!
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27145390 - 01/13/21 08:59 AM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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I spray down all my grain jars with peroxide and vinegar before I load them.
*Best cheapest sanitizing agent I have found is one mist bottle full of white vinegar, another mist bottle full of H202. Spray one on, wait a minute, spray other on, wait a minute, wipe down with clean paper towels (doesn’t matter which is sprayed on - first). That combo will KILL...E-Coli, Salmonella, Aids & host of almost all other nasty stuff, including mold spores.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16473915#16473915
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: starbones]
#27148014 - 01/14/21 03:42 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Keep it rollin' if the contamination rate is low you're doing great. It'll be interesting to see how those other bags turn out for sure. What size filter patch is on your bags? .2, .5 or 5 micron? Edit: I see 0.5 there yeah
Your LC recipe seems insanely nute heavy, I've seen that before. For the life of me I can't remember where but I tried it and got so much sediment I never went back. Perhaps I should try it again as I've got ELME and Dextrose here.
Friend of mine told me about using the 20/20 malt/dex recipe. He knows his shit that's for sure.
Everything we do is about outrunning contamination and competitors so I mean I guess I understand the theory behind this. Gonna be awful hard for competitor molds and bacteria to outrun 60ml of LC for 1 quart of spawn. Coirs naturally contamination resistant so would be hard for anything to grab a foothold there.. I dunno, maybe I'll buy up some more bags and give it a try.
I'm sorry I glance over your question. I'm using the .5 filter patch on my bags.
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micelio
Song of Silence


Registered: 04/22/14
Posts: 1,547
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27149741 - 01/15/21 01:01 PM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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I made up 12 bags. one of the bags I'll use a jar of spawn for comparison.
Here's a pic. of the grain jars soaking with lc. before It gets dumped into the coir verm. bags...
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Micelio's Spawnless, Growing In Bags [Re: micelio]
#27149767 - 01/15/21 01:25 PM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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This is interesting.
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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