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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27132157 - 01/07/21 03:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

but before that well, what came before 20 years ago, what a statement!


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27132189 - 01/07/21 04:45 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Can one call the OP either intelligent or interesting if he has had nothing new to say for about a week &/or 4 pages?

And if one did, would anyone believe it, let alone care?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27132194 - 01/07/21 04:56 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

maybe it's a rigged thread, like the election.
hold onto your lecterns.



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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27132427 - 01/07/21 08:36 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

let's turn this into a discussion about art and creativity more generally, such as the opinion Outsideofmymind stated.

Personally I am not very familiar with modern art if we are talking about visual arts. I do recall a very boring abstract art installation with paintings being up to 5000euros and being just a big painting of nothing interesting. Something to hang in a hall or waiting room in some fancy place I suppose.
In that same place was my cousin's much more creative art in which he used various techniques to make collages and each piece had a theme of its own that was clear immediately or took some time to familiarize in the work. A lot of it was based on modern internet culture such as memes. There were also fragments of his own life in there. That I would call art compared to the uninspiring albeit inoffensive to the eyes abstract art works.

Therefore I initially somewhat agree with Outsideofmymind's statement, althogh I am sure lots of good visual art has been made in the last two decades.

Obviously a banana taped to a wall is not art, but a way to avoid paying taxes and what not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27132565 - 01/07/21 10:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

you may fail to realize that the gallery in which you saw the large abstract painting is also a creative art even though it was built by tradesmen, and the wall was construed as a place for a large painting, and the thought was that people would be able to experience something when they encounter the large painting in the well lit halls that are impeccably cleaned.
all of those sensibilities are part of the overall umbrella of art culture.
in japan they have wabi sabi,
this may be more accessible to you before engaging in abstract art directly.
a consideration of the impermanence and imperfection in life.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27133372 - 01/07/21 04:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

This
Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
let's turn this into a discussion about art and creativity more generally, ...




Whether one likes a particular piece of art or not, has nothing to do with the experience of the person who made it, while they were making it.

.  That this has been ignored here shows that most if not all, of the posters here aren't artists, painters, or writers, although some may like to dabble a little.

.  People who go to a rave don't judge each other's dancing, they're having too much fun. Yet compared to the everyday behavior most people engage in with their bodies, something that feels creative seems to be happening.

In the case of "Burning Man" every thing that is created also gets destroyed, so if we grant that some of the constructions that occur there are amazing, that the people there are having great fun, making friends, and take home with themselves feelings of more energy and empowerment--then again we see the experience of making and modifying an object (aka creating) is separate from the object, separate from the price of the object, separate from any opinions about the object, and separate from any influence it may have on others' ideas and future creations.

.  Notice that the OP's silly statement lies purely within the field of opinion, after the process of manufacturing, modifying, and creating has entirely ended.
.  And that it is assumed some sort of random sampling of opinion by those who know nothing of the creation process of the item in question, has some sort of validity, and furthermore the statement shows the OP to be unaware of all these factors, as well as, of course as predicted, to be totally incapable of defining his terms.
.  In particular, as regards definitions, the importance of knowing what of the OP refers to as "art", and the motivations of the creator, of course effect the answer as well.
.  To ignore all this reduces the question to trolling, or purely low level journalism. As all of the operative words are undefined, a paper with this question, submitted in a philosophy class, as posted here, would simply be flunked - pure and simple.


https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Burning+man&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Burning+man&t=h_&ia=web


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27134295 - 01/08/21 12:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'll get back to this when I don't have a headache.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: laughingdog]
    #27134604 - 01/08/21 07:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Excellent post. You described the creative process and joy very well as the basis of art. That is to me what constitutes art, regardless of how many other opinions there are. It is enough that one person, usually the creator had that joy of constructing (using this instead of creating) - bringing into existence - something of significance to them.

Art incorporates beauty, aesthetics into the work of art. I would consider a valid definition of any work as art that someone holds the opinion that it is a work of art, because how it makes them feel: appreciative, touched, and so on.


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OfflineSirshovel
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: skOsH]
    #27137905 - 01/09/21 03:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I think art mostly speaks to people, or it won't. Most people relate better with the art if they connect to it emotionally. Some art just doesn't cut it if it's just duplicates, but if it is slightly different, it might depict something that sparks insight to create even more art

I don't think there is such a thing as bad art, just some people like different art,




I think it only speaks to people because we are raised to believe that. Without any conception of what art "IS" I highly doubt it would speak to as many people as it normally would.

I'm not a denier, merely unable to go back to seeing art as the masses have been told to (IE, that it even exists to begin with or that it's creative).


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Sirshovel]
    #27137935 - 01/09/21 03:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Why do you think art doesn't exist? We went through the creative part, but what about that which is referred to as art, is it not real?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27138903 - 01/10/21 02:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The "creative part" as in a stage in Jungian psychology?


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27138907 - 01/10/21 02:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

no, as in this thread :laugh: my wording is problematic sometimes it seems


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27140638 - 01/10/21 08:13 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

But maybe what is revealed has never been revealed in that way before..

There should be an option to see change.. between choice and adaptation/reaction.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27143250 - 01/12/21 06:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Art should be something that expresses something within yourself. It shouldn't need a story or explanation in order to explain what it expresses, otherwise it's not art, but just a commodity. A lot of contemporary art is bullshit and is not real art. A lot of it is commercialized and has been turned into a commodity. I'm talking about more of the fine arts, painting, sculpture, things of that sort. The problem with contemporary art is that it can be any medium with any idea.  Before contemporary art, each style incorporated the basic principles and elements of art in a very composing way, a great composition, if you may. In order to create a good composition, it should use the principles and elements of art in a way that is composing to the eye.

The kids these days who create their shitty digital art don't know anything about the basic principles and elements of art or how to make a good composition. They don't know anything about portraiture. Nothing about color theory or how to mix paint. Most people who do actually paint only use acrylic. It's very rare to meet anyone these days who likes painting with oils or watercolor or pastel. In my eyes, you're not a REAL fine artist unless you know how to paint with oil paints. Although acrylic has its uses, it's mostly for pussies who don't know how to blend paint and who are too impatient to use oils.

There is not really any such thing as real photographers anymore. Most photographers or should I say people who call themselves photographers just have some cheap digital camera and know how to use at least the basic functions of photoshop.

So now what makes a good artist? I think having a wide breadth of knowledge in the mediums and the principles and elements of art are important. Do you not only know how to make harmonious compositions, but can you also work with pencil, charcoal, graphite, watercolors, gaouche, oil and dry pastel, oil paint, acrylic, tempera, et al???? Are you familiar with the tools and methods to create basic and advanced art? Do you not only know how to make abstract pieces, but can you also draw and/or paint a photorealistic copy of what you see? How about perspective? When I think about the greatest artists, my favorite is Canaletto. Perfect perspective and colors and very photorealistic. That's a guy who knows oil paint!

So here now, each era of art also has its criticisms. A lot of art gets censored. There was the "degenerate art" that was made during the war. That was before contemporary art when there were a lot of "isms" such as cubism, surrealism, etc. Before that, each period had its own style of art as you see with baroque, rococo, impressionism, etc.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27143281 - 01/12/21 07:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

you might be at the beginning of a long journey into Art.

what is missing in your summary is the direct communication of feelings that are not explicit, and how that works with the overall composition, which is greater than any individual part of an artwork.

no one rule dominates all.


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OfflineCyonic
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27147789 - 01/14/21 01:35 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If nothing new on is made the in process is still the creative process.

The work created however would not be original.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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