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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #27137222 - 01/09/21 09:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Neither Obama nor bernie called for combat.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 2
    #27137230 - 01/09/21 09:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

But in spite of the lack of evidence as you acknowledge, he managed to convince huge numbers of people that the election had been stolen from him/them. And that is the biggest reason that they were willing to do what they did on Jan 6th. They were propagandized into radicalism by his lies.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #27137247 - 01/09/21 09:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:
But in spite of the lack of evidence as you acknowledge, he managed to convince huge numbers of people that the election had been stolen from him/them. And that is the biggest reason that they were willing to do what they did on Jan 6th. They were propagandized into radicalism by his lies.




Ok he lied. Im agreeing with you. He hasnt met the legal standard for incitement of violence and im not going to just start throwing away my principals and blaming someone for something they arent guilty of.

Can I say it was garbage to do and he shouldnt have lied? yes. Can I put the responsibility for the violence on him? no.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Neither Obama nor bernie called for combat.



Obama and Bernie both made theur respective issues out ti be a matter of life and death and arguably drove people to  violence.

TONS of politicians on both sides have used language like "fight", "fight for your lives", etc, etc, etc in political messages. get real. Democratic politicians have had nothing to do with chaz/chop or the numerous riots over the summer? you're just being intellectually dishonest.

The people who ignore all that and look at Trump as the one who has dragged the discourse to this level are being stupid.

The president elect said Mitt Romney wanted to put black people back in chains years ago. With NO EVIDENCE.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 3
    #27137266 - 01/09/21 09:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Calling the election invalid without proof as the acting head of government to undermine the legitimacy of the incoming head of government is insurrection whether or not people acted on it or not. People have been giving Trump slack saying he was speaking as a private individual for the lies he's put forth. He's not a private individual until he is no longer President. Anything he says in public are the words of the President.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #27137273 - 01/09/21 09:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

psi said:
But in spite of the lack of evidence as you acknowledge, he managed to convince huge numbers of people that the election had been stolen from him/them. And that is the biggest reason that they were willing to do what they did on Jan 6th. They were propagandized into radicalism by his lies.




Ok he lied. Im agreeing with you. He hasnt met the legal standard for incitement of violence and im not going to just start throwing away my principals and blaming someone for something they arent guilty of.

Can I say it was garbage to do and he shouldnt have lied? yes. Can I put the responsibility for the violence on him? no.





Obviously people are responsible for their own actions. But it was Trump's lies about the election that created this whole situation, whether or not the legal standard for incitement is met in the case of the riot. And there are still a large number of very angry people who believe those lies. This is a problem that probably won't go away any time soon.

Kudos for being willing to acknowledge that his claims are bullshit though.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: psi] * 1
    #27137301 - 01/09/21 10:06 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

responding to banana man is worse than being banana man


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: cannabinated] * 4
    #27137332 - 01/09/21 10:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Great contribution cannabinated. :stonedjerk:


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: psi] * 1
    #27137829 - 01/09/21 02:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe all the division in this country and the political violence was created in part by the lies of everyone in this thread and outside of it who told the bold faced lie that Trump refused to denounce white supremecy.

Claiming something publicly with insufficient evidence when you are the sitting president of the United States is irresponsible and bad for the country.

Saying something verifiable false with evidence to the contrary is straight up defamation.

Do I need to compile a list of all the politicians who have said voters need to "fight for their lives" or "vote or die" or "fight the power" or something similar?

Do I need to list all the significant lies of democratic politicians?

I really dont want to do either of those things because I have no interest in whataboutism or defending Trump's claims about the election. I just want everyone to be held to the same standard.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 2
    #27137902 - 01/09/21 03:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn’t matter if you don’t think his words inspired their violence. The people who actually rioted were inspired to do so by his words. We know this because they said so, in posts where they discussed the violence that might be necessary.

Twitter finally banned him permanent because after he tweeted that he would not be going to the inaugural, some of his supporters were saying this was meant to communicate that it would be safe to attack the event.

It’s just easier to get rid of him and the hassle he creates


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: koods]
    #27137908 - 01/09/21 03:38 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
It doesn’t matter if you don’t think his words inspired their violence. The people who actually rioted were inspired to do so by his words. We know this because they said so, in posts where they discussed the violence that might be necessary.

Twitter finally banned him permanent because after he tweeted that he would not be going to the inaugural, some of his supporters were saying this was meant to communicate that it would be safe to attack the event.

It’s just easier to get rid of him and the hassle he creates




I don't think he wants to go anywhere.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: koods] * 1
    #27137919 - 01/09/21 03:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just to be clear, he called some of the people who attended a white supremacist rally “good people”


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: koods]
    #27137943 - 01/09/21 03:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

You must be the most interesting poster on this forum to constantly reply to yourself so much.

"What do you think of that Koods?"

"Very good opinion. Very well said Koods."

"Also, I just want to add to that. Just be clear etc. Etc."

"Thanks for clarifying that Koods."



:thumbup:


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #27138176 - 01/09/21 06:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Maybe all the division in this country and the political violence was created in part by the lies of everyone in this thread and outside of it who told the bold faced lie that Trump refused to denounce white supremecy.

Claiming something publicly with insufficient evidence when you are the sitting president of the United States is irresponsible and bad for the country.

Saying something verifiable false with evidence to the contrary is straight up defamation.

Do I need to compile a list of all the politicians who have said voters need to "fight for their lives" or "vote or die" or "fight the power" or something similar?

Do I need to list all the significant lies of democratic politicians?

I really dont want to do either of those things because I have no interest in whataboutism or defending Trump's claims about the election. I just want everyone to be held to the same standard.




He told the people who stormed the Capital and rioted in there, "We love you."


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: koods]
    #27138178 - 01/09/21 06:16 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
It doesn’t matter if you don’t think his words inspired their violence. The people who actually rioted were inspired to do so by his words. We know this because they said so, in posts where they discussed the violence that might be necessary.

Twitter finally banned him permanent because after he tweeted that he would not be going to the inaugural, some of his supporters were saying this was meant to communicate that it would be safe to attack the event.

It’s just easier to get rid of him and the hassle he creates



So if someone says "I killed that guy because of koods" you are responsible for murder. got it.

I geuss JD Salinger should be locked up for the murder of John Lennon.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #27138181 - 01/09/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
I agreed wih damn near everything bananaman said up until those last 2 sentences.

Trump, as far as I've seen, has not publically denounced white supremacists.

He's said there are good peope on both sides and told the proud boys to "stand back and stand by"
which is the furthest thing from condemnation.



the good people on both sides was also misunderstood. he thought the Charlottesville rally was just a rally about whether or not the statue should come down. He specifically said he wasn't talking about the white supremacists or Antifa. just the people on both sides of the statue debate who disagreed with each other.

the media calls everyone white supremacists who disagrees with them including orthodox jews so Trump can't trust the media when they ask him about white supremacists. But as it turns out, in this case the label was correct and the rally was organized by white supremacists. but Trump said he wasn't talking about them. he was talking about the people in Charlottesville who had different opinions about what to do with the statue.




Koods lied about Trump again.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27138183 - 01/09/21 06:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Maybe all the division in this country and the political violence was created in part by the lies of everyone in this thread and outside of it who told the bold faced lie that Trump refused to denounce white supremecy.

Claiming something publicly with insufficient evidence when you are the sitting president of the United States is irresponsible and bad for the country.

Saying something verifiable false with evidence to the contrary is straight up defamation.

Do I need to compile a list of all the politicians who have said voters need to "fight for their lives" or "vote or die" or "fight the power" or something similar?

Do I need to list all the significant lies of democratic politicians?

I really dont want to do either of those things because I have no interest in whataboutism or defending Trump's claims about the election. I just want everyone to be held to the same standard.




He told the people who stormed the Capital and rioted in there, "We love you."



Are you refering to the video where he called for people to be peaceful?

because I agree that was a garbage video. He also did call for peace. so if you guys are going to claim that he's responsible for how people take the things he say then certainly what he ac tally said has to count for something, no?


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 2
    #27138214 - 01/09/21 06:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
...
He has been radicalizing people for months with lies about a stolen election (years even if you consider the lies about the 2016 election.)
He spoke to the crowd, said he would be with them- tacitly endorsing whatever was planned.
That crowd marched to the capitol.
A woman in that crowd -wrapped in a flag with his name on it- died trying to break in to a secure area  For. Him.

Pretending to not see how these things are connected is just dishonest.




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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: Lynnch]
    #27138233 - 01/09/21 06:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Quote:

Lynnch said:
...
He has been radicalizing people for months with lies about a stolen election (years even if you consider the lies about the 2016 election.)
He spoke to the crowd, said he would be with them- tacitly endorsing whatever was planned.
That crowd marched to the capitol.
A woman in that crowd -wrapped in a flag with his name on it- died trying to break in to a secure area  For. Him.

Pretending to not see how these things are connected is just dishonest.






The democrats were the ones claiming the 2016 election was stolen.

How many democrats said they would stand with the protestors over the summer who ended up committing numerous crimes and occupying a Seattle neighborhood for like a month where numerous people were shot and emergency services were obstructed. were the democratic politicians supporting what they did?

Ok so you would say that JD Salinger is responsible for John Lennon's murder, got it. I have to disagree.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 4
    #27138246 - 01/09/21 06:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Trump claimed he won the popular vote.

Prominent Democrats denounced all of the violence over the summer. Protesters and Rioters/Looters are not the same thing.

I have said nothing about JD Salinger or John Lennon. We are talking about Trump.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Trump Again Disavows White Supremacists while Biden Wont Disavow Antifa [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 4
    #27138248 - 01/09/21 06:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

IIRC liberals claimed that foreign actors influenced the election by influencing public opinion, not that the election results did not reflect what voters intended. Trump did claim in 2016 that there was a massive discrepancy between legally cast votes and the results though, and that he had actually won the 2016 popular vote.


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