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OfflineJosborne
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Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this?
    #27137364 - 01/09/21 10:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm doing a no soak no boil tek for WBS (2400ml WBS, 700-800ml water). Sometimes the WBS comes out with parts of it with this red-ish tint and all mushy. I've noticed that the mush parts are usually the areas that had the most contact with the PC. I put rings to seperate the bags from the walls of the PC and use the metal tray that comes with All American PCs on the top and bottom. Also, while one half of the bag comes out like this redish mush, the other either looks fine or looks untouched and dry.



What's going on?


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Offlinebw86
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27137386 - 01/09/21 10:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Josborne said:Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this?




My guess would be this.
Quote:

Josborne said:
I'm doing a no soak no boil tek for WBS




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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: bw86]
    #27137392 - 01/09/21 10:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Is it bad other than aesthetics? I asked around here about no soak/no boils for WBS and millet and the consensus seemed to be that it was fine.


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Offlinebw86
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27137397 - 01/09/21 10:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Im sure its fine if you know what your doing. But you should get a feel for a proper grain prep tek before making large grain bags.
It could potentially be ok. if you mix them up well enough and you dump like a quart of colonized grain in to colonize it.
I doubut you will have much luck sticking that with an lc? There is only one way to find out.


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: bw86]
    #27137407 - 01/09/21 10:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bw86 said:
I doubut you will have much luck sticking that with an lc? There is only one way to find out.




Even worse. I used a MS syringe. I'll downsize the bags.


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: bw86]
    #27137411 - 01/09/21 10:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just for my own education: is the main problem that when the bags come out looking like this it means that its not a viable environment for mycelial growth?


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Offlinebw86
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27137427 - 01/09/21 10:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It could be viable but far from ideal. Not only do you have pasty chunky stuff but you have no idea if the rest of the grain is even hydrated.
I would suggest soaking your wbs for 12-24 hours.Then letting it air dry until you can feel that its perfect.
At least until you know what perfect grain looks like and feels like. Then you can experiment with teks that cut corners.


Edited by bw86 (01/09/21 10:59 AM)


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: bw86]
    #27137485 - 01/09/21 11:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bw86 said:
It could be viable but far from ideal. Not only do you have pasty chunky stuff but you have no idea if the rest of the grain is even hydrated.
I would suggest soaking your wbs for 12-24 hours.Then letting it air dry until you can feel that its perfect.
At least until you know what perfect grain looks like and feels like. Then you can experiment with teks that cut corners.




Will do. Thanks for the help.


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Offlinebw86
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27137496 - 01/09/21 11:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

You can bite into a grain to see the middle is hydrated. You want them to basically appear dry on the outside when you load bags. You dont want them to stick to your hand.


And of course nobody would recommend MS from a syringe.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: bw86]
    #27137592 - 01/09/21 12:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

So I have to assume the no soak no boil means your dumping a predetermined amount of water into a bag and then PCing right away... AM I correct?

Gravity is fucking you up my man. Water pools at the bottom and boils inside the bag at the point closest to the heat concentrations (walls or bottom) and your getting mush from overcooking grains in some spots and others not getting enough moisture.

Before reading my first thought was that those grains are to wet.


Edited by Sockadin (01/09/21 12:36 PM)


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Sockadin]
    #27139868 - 01/10/21 01:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
So I have to assume the no soak no boil means your dumping a predetermined amount of water into a bag and then PCing right away... AM I correct?

Gravity is fucking you up my man. Water pools at the bottom and boils inside the bag at the point closest to the heat concentrations (walls or bottom) and your getting mush from overcooking grains in some spots and others not getting enough moisture.

Before reading my first thought was that those grains are to wet.




I figured. That makes a lot of sense. But then how have others been able to do these teks and get great even looking spawn? The issue of gravity and uneven cooking should be a common denominator regardless of water ratios, PSI, etc.


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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27140012 - 01/10/21 03:02 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I had more failure than I would like to admit not having proper grain hydration for large bags. I can honestly say i have a recently aquired PHD in the :failboat:
The sweet spot for me with my grain in my sterilizer in large bags sits at about 40% moisture content + - 2 % using 2 oats, 1 milo
Recently I have been incorporating wheat & was using millet but decided to save remaining for grain masters.
I dont run wbs so cant chime in their.


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Buddaking]
    #27144365 - 01/12/21 06:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Buddaking said:
I had more failure than I would like to admit not having proper grain hydration for large bags. I can honestly say i have a recently aquired PHD in the :failboat:
The sweet spot for me with my grain in my sterilizer in large bags sits at about 40% moisture content + - 2 % using 2 oats, 1 milo
Recently I have been incorporating wheat & was using millet but decided to save remaining for grain masters.
I dont run wbs so cant chime in their.




Do the grains evenly hydrate? What the poster above said about gravity and water in the PC makes a lot of sense, so I'm wondering how people still get good looking grain spawn.


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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27144447 - 01/12/21 06:56 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

My grain is pretty evenly hydrated prior to sterilization. I do a no boil 24 hr soak for heavy LC inoculation.

2 parts oats 1 part milo. Hot water for initial soak 24 hrs about 70 degrees.

If going g2g i warm em back up over 100 with hot water Last 4 hrs.

I dump them out to drain about 5 to 10 min then bag wet.

I fold down bags & let rest in place overnight.

Shake em up with the morning coffee & steem 24 hrs or pc 4 hrs.

Remove when cool & shake to distribute any moisture that might have settled to the bottom & to be sure any clumps are distributed

Let them sit 12 to 24 hrs at room temp, shake again then inoculate.

The overnight wet rest really allows the moisture to stabilize within the bag to a aprox perfect 40% -+ 2% with no pooling on the bottom of bag.

If doing jars this way i find them really on the dry side but for big ass bags ya really want them on the dry side to avoid pooling on the bottom & bacterial blooms.

This is in no way my idea I just had a problem, used the search function last summer & followed the directions of those that trugged before me..

I give props to another AMU guy Gr0wer AKA Myers Mushrooms. He has posted this method here & videos on youtube describing this in detail.

Once again i cant chime in on WBS the cracked corn content turned me off to it long ago although it works amazing for many great growers.

:sorry: for the novel hope it helps :cheers:


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OfflineMLPismyOPSEC
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: Josborne]
    #27144489 - 01/12/21 07:11 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24764677

This should give you an idea for hydration % to work with.


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OfflineJosborne
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Re: Why are some of WBS spawn bags coming out like this? [Re: MLPismyOPSEC]
    #27146678 - 01/13/21 09:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

thanks everyone  :takingnotes:


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