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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #27135980 - 01/08/21 06:20 PM (3 years, 20 days ago)

Seems already good answers. Other piece of the puzzle is that the public is uneducated, and politicians, (who make the laws) only want to get reelected, and have little integrity, imagination, or any desire to change things for the better. They are mostly rather slimy examples, of the species.


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: InvisibleMind] * 2
    #27136139 - 01/08/21 07:32 PM (3 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

InvisibleMind said:
I know about the current movements I just don’t understand why it even requires a movement.




because to the political right and Regan/Nixon types the "blacks and hippies are bad" and the government realized they could totally squash an entire liberal generational movement by making psychedelics illegal and imposing very harsh restrictions, who gives a fuck who gets caught up in things they knew are harmless.  not only that, they knew how fucking awesome psychedelics are and they all took them!  everywhere you see that back in the day government officials tripping out.  by making weed and psychedelics illegal, the Republicans in the 70s/80s managed to squash an entire generational movement away from them that threatened there power.

so they make drugs illegal, while doing the drugs, also while profiting off of the drugs, while lying to us the whole time.  any more questions?


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Typerwritermonky] * 1
    #27136654 - 01/09/21 12:15 AM (3 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Typerwritermonky said:
so they make drugs illegal, while doing the drugs, also while profiting off of the drugs, while lying to us the whole time.  any more questions?



Don't forget that the CIA also spent American tax dollars on researching the usage of LSD as a chemical weapon. The CIA hired prostitutes to lure men from the streets in California into special apartment buildings during the sixties, who would then dose them with LSD while CIA researchers watched the whole thing from the other side of a two-way mirror. Today, we know those incidents as small pieces of a much larger operation known as MKULTRA.

The CIA's research with LSD was so reckless that it even killed a man. His name was Frank Olson. Olson was a doctor doing research for the CIA at the time, and he was invited to a "retreat" in a cabin in the woods by his superiors. This "retreat" was really a research project, though the invitees weren't informed of this. They were dosed with LSD during a meal in the cabin one night. Olson had a particularly difficult time integrating the experience, and he became severely depressed as a result. His family said that he basically became a different person. He was at risk of suicide and he needed help immediately. However, the CIA was more interested in covering their own asses and denying culpability than they were in helping him recover. One of their psychologists decided to send him to a mental institution (at the time, mental institutions were hellholes due to lack of funding and staff). Olson committed suicide the night before he was scheduled to be transferred to the institution.

This isn't just a conspiracy theory, either. Long after MKULTRA was canceled and much of the documentation was leaked to the public, the president made an official apology to Olson's surviving family, with a huge cash settlement to accompany it. The CIA admitted to drugging Olson against his will.

The history of LSD is pretty fucked up, honestly.


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Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Edited by Nonagon Infinity (01/09/21 12:19 AM)


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27136677 - 01/09/21 12:42 AM (3 years, 19 days ago)

History is crazy fucked up.  Even the "good guys" like the major hippie types who controlled things, I mean, they were nice, good, loving people - but they did some bad things back in the day to keep things quiet and going.  Even the people selling hundreds of grams of the best quality LSD in the world, have done some unspeakable things.  There's a massive underground huge level network of people who are a lot dirtier then we like to imagine.  But remarkably, unlike any other drug, LSD dealers tend to be the most honest, respectful, genuine, and nice people in general.  Now i've known scumbag as fuck big time LSD dealers and I've known really kind heroin dealers.. but still.


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Offlinemonsieurtrips
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: InvisibleMind]
    #27147520 - 01/14/21 11:13 AM (3 years, 14 days ago)

works for me.  tells you how strong they are, and potentially dangerous.  discourages the free flowing distribution of them by people who grow them for their own use. i most certainely would never sell them to anyone i knew. mushrooms are a personal endevour, they should not be thought of casually in any sense.  i’ve taken them 15> times now, and never find them predictable, and i’d never classify them as safe.  i’d hate it if you could legally buy them. i imagine they’d get a really bad rep pretty quick and shut a lot of people off from trying them.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: monsieurtrips]
    #27147706 - 01/14/21 12:56 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

:dafuq:


--------------------

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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: monsieurtrips]
    #27147808 - 01/14/21 01:42 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

monsieurtrips said:
i’d never classify them as safe.



Maybe I've just had different experiences with them, but I've actually found mushrooms to be far safer than most other drugs I've tried. In particular, it's a lot safer than alcohol.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineVibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #27147822 - 01/14/21 01:48 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

Politics over humanity :/

Though, we have been stuck in that stigma since the 60's - things are slowly making a change, in some BIG ways. I think within another 20 years or so things will be a lot different in regards to psychedelics.


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:greyalien:




Edited by Vibe_Enthusiast (01/14/21 01:50 PM)


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Vibe_Enthusiast]
    #27147867 - 01/14/21 02:16 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

It's because of the enormous socio-cultural changes that resulted from the widespread use of hallucinogens in the 60's. It was associated with revolutuion and the dissolution of morality as they saw it. It was associated with anti-government movements, hippies n yippees. In all fairness, it was the recreational use and irresponsible (I hate to say it) behavior of people like Timothy Leary and Ram Dass (Whom I do admire) who, while encouraging everyone to turn on, tune in and drop out, was actually turning responsible researchers who were looking at benefits scientifically off.


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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: monsieurtrips]
    #27147874 - 01/14/21 02:19 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

monsieurtrips said:
works for me.  tells you how strong they are, and potentially dangerous.  discourages the free flowing distribution of them by people who grow them for their own use. i most certainely would never sell them to anyone i knew. mushrooms are a personal endevour, they should not be thought of casually in any sense.  i’ve taken them 15> times now, and never find them predictable, and i’d never classify them as safe.  i’d hate it if you could legally buy them. i imagine they’d get a really bad rep pretty quick and shut a lot of people off from trying them.




Agreed. The idea that our reality is not the whole picture scares the crap out of most people. I think most use these days is more responsible than it ws in the 60's and 70's. More reflective and thoughtful Thing is, the counter-culture (Hippies) made it political. They were saying things like "Don't trust anyone over 30" and burning draft cards and bras. And it WAS actually associated with LSD use.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27148101 - 01/14/21 04:33 PM (3 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

monsieurtrips said:
i’d never classify them as safe.



Maybe I've just had different experiences with them, but I've actually found mushrooms to be far safer than most other drugs I've tried. In particular, it's a lot safer than alcohol.




True that.  Legalization (it's happening now in Oregon) would help immensely as there is no valid reason for them to be scheduled - never was.  It was an international paranoid movement way back in the days of ignorance that led to that. 

Psychedelics are almost uniformly self-limiting and very hard to develop any sort of addiction to.  Can't say that about legal drugs. :hereyougo:


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: InvisibleMind]
    #27149057 - 01/15/21 04:01 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

Because generally speaking "medical value" has been defined as a large and well-controlled study suitable for FDA approval.  That doesn't exist.  It's a similar situation for marijuana.  "Medical value" isn't people on the internet professing a substance has medical value, its a more established term.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: InvisibleMind] * 2
    #27150433 - 01/15/21 08:06 PM (3 years, 13 days ago)

Because they want brainwashed slaves

Not free thinkers who go against the statua quo

Duh


--------------------
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:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflineThe OCB
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Enkidu]
    #27154423 - 01/17/21 11:08 PM (3 years, 10 days ago)

I have had this same conversation with friends tripping like 20+ and the emotion and passion with which you respond reminds me of myself when I was younger and I find that incredibly endearing.

Everyone that has responded has lumped the myriad of reasons together. You could blame the young progressives or the older conservatives, but in the end it’s just people being people. Control...


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: InvisibleMind]
    #27156436 - 01/18/21 10:37 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Schedule 1 was just simply what they decided back in the late 60s when it became illegal. A lot of people were really overdoing it with high doses and having freak-outs. Timothy Loery and his brainwashing (I like some of things he said but he went about getting the masses to take lsd in the wrong way) It was really only accepted as medicine in the realm of psychology. Psychology was looked at a lot differently back then. They thought that lsd could help people experience the perspective of a person with schizophrenia. They thought it mimiced schizophrenia and that's why they thought it was so dangerous but people were taking crazy high doses. People NOW pretty much know not to take "too much." You do hear about these freak-outs at festivals but not a lot like in the 60s.

There's a YouTube video, "Hofmann's Potion" and "Inside LSD" that goes into the history of it and why exactly it became illegal and how they scheduled it #1.


--------------------



Edited by OutsideOfMyMind (01/18/21 11:08 PM)


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27156720 - 01/19/21 04:16 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Well at the same time right before it became illegal they were doing testing for its use with things like substance abuse, alcoholism, it had a much better success rate than the alternative at the time.

There was data at that time suggesting its use for beneficial means

That was ignored, testing was illegal soon as the substance was.


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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Invisiblecoversall
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: Enkidu]
    #27157298 - 01/19/21 11:41 AM (3 years, 9 days ago)

I'll throw some of my thought on this into the ring.

I'm not a huge fan of legalisation. I remember being at a big music festival that was mostly focused on reggae and other reggae based musics. As you could probably guess there was a fair bit of ganja there and a lot of talk about ganja, it's uses, the laws, and so on. One thing that struck me was that there were a lot of big, established companies pushing hard for legalisation. Chomping at the bit to unleash a tsunami of material goods onto a new market. That give me the chills. I don't not trust companies operating in our current economic system to behave in a way that has the public's best interest at heart. They would squeeze every last bit of money out of their customers while riding on any band wagon that touted the vaguest claims about weed being good for you and I believe actively try and suppress information about it's potential harms.

I can only imagine the same happening with psychedelics. I'm not saying that it's what would definitely happen, just that it isn't outside the realms of possibility. And whose to say that without sensible policy it couldn't be managed? I don't live in the states and the time I have speant there has been in the wilderness not the cities, so I haven't had any real exposure to how legalisation is working there. I'd love to hear if any of the my first paragraphy can be seen?

What's the alternative? Well treating drug use as a criminal issue has obviously lead to a huge can of worms being dumped on some of the most vulnerable people within our societies. And black market drug dealers and producers aren't saints. Could we trust state regulation? Maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I think making drugs 'boring' would actually be hugely beneficial. I think being able to buy shrooms, weed, whatever in some drab cardboard box from an un-decorated government outlet would be preferential to some highly coloured, mango flavoured, dope(c) sponsored by Nike(tm). However, the chance of that leading to some list of who is and isn't using these outlets is too high. I know there were people in South America (I forget the country that legalised weed not too long ago) who were going to continue to grow their own illegally as they distrusted their government so much and feared having their names entered into a big database of known pot smokers.

The one thing I am sure of is that drug use needs to become a health issue and be dealt with away from the criminal justice system. Education needs to be objective and based on science. I am equally worried about the pro-drug propagandists as I am the anti.

Beyond that how you handle the production and distribution sides of the whole affair is beyond me.

At the end of the day it's a bummer that I have to hide my dozen jars of dried mushrooms.

PFfftttt.. semi-rant over.

:typingdog:


--------------------

..:: E V E R Y  ::..

..:: New? Start here. ::..
..:: How I Panaeolus. From Agar to Tea ::..


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Why are psychedelics schedule 1? What am i missing here? [Re: coversall]
    #27157353 - 01/19/21 12:06 PM (3 years, 9 days ago)

Quote:

coversall said:
I'll throw some of my thought on this into the ring.

I'm not a huge fan of legalisation. I remember being at a big music festival that was mostly focused on reggae and other reggae based musics. As you could probably guess there was a fair bit of ganja there and a lot of talk about ganja, it's uses, the laws, and so on. One thing that struck me was that there were a lot of big, established companies pushing hard for legalisation. Chomping at the bit to unleash a tsunami of material goods onto a new market. That give me the chills. I don't not trust companies operating in our current economic system to behave in a way that has the public's best interest at heart. They would squeeze every last bit of money out of their customers while riding on any band wagon that touted the vaguest claims about weed being good for you and I believe actively try and suppress information about it's potential harms.

I can only imagine the same happening with psychedelics. I'm not saying that it's what would definitely happen, just that it isn't outside the realms of possibility. And whose to say that without sensible policy it couldn't be managed? I don't live in the states and the time I have speant there has been in the wilderness not the cities, so I haven't had any real exposure to how legalisation is working there. I'd love to hear if any of the my first paragraphy can be seen?

What's the alternative? Well treating drug use as a criminal issue has obviously lead to a huge can of worms being dumped on some of the most vulnerable people within our societies. And black market drug dealers and producers aren't saints. Could we trust state regulation? Maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I think making drugs 'boring' would actually be hugely beneficial. I think being able to buy shrooms, weed, whatever in some drab cardboard box from an un-decorated government outlet would be preferential to some highly coloured, mango flavoured, dope(c) sponsored by Nike(tm). However, the chance of that leading to some list of who is and isn't using these outlets is too high. I know there were people in South America (I forget the country that legalised weed not too long ago) who were going to continue to grow their own illegally as they distrusted their government so much and feared having their names entered into a big database of known pot smokers.

The one thing I am sure of is that drug use needs to become a health issue and be dealt with away from the criminal justice system. Education needs to be objective and based on science. I am equally worried about the pro-drug propagandists as I am the anti.

Beyond that how you handle the production and distribution sides of the whole affair is beyond me.

At the end of the day it's a bummer that I have to hide my dozen jars of dried mushrooms.

PFfftttt.. semi-rant over.

:typingdog:



Thanks for sharing those thoughts, coversall. Your thoughts echo a lot of my own.

On the one hand, I'm hesitant to legalize psychedelics because I know there are capitalists who are looking to take advantage of such a situation, and I feel that, to a certain extent, the potential risks are even greater than that of legalizing cannabis was (though, I still believe legal psychedelics would probably be less dangerous than alcohol currently is).

On the other hand, I'd love to see psychedelics legalized because of my hobbies. I'm not a degenerate or a criminal. I'm not harming anyone else. I contribute to society with my work, my creativity, and my passion. I'm a very loving, compassionate person, and the idea that I could potentially spend years in a cage for privately pursuing a hobby I enjoy is a great failing of our "justice" system.

I live in an American city where cannabis is legal, so I can describe some of the effects: yes, it's a business above all else. There are aggressive ad campaigns for dispensaries, head shops, and similar businesses everywhere.  However, they don't employ the strategy you're describing, where they push the medicinal benefits of weed (some do, but it's not super common). Ultimately, I think cannabis is just a product that sells itself. The marketing campaigns are more focused on who is offering the best deals. "Our dispo does 30% off when you buy an eighth on Mondays - you won't find a better deal in town" and shit like that. It's a little slimy, and there are definitely dispos out there that have the intention of crushing competition from other dispos, which sucks. It's also increased tourism quite a lot, which some people argued would be great for my state's economy. However, now that the laws have actually been in place for several years, we're starting to see that it's really just increased the cost of living here, which is pretty shitty. However, those specific issues have to do with the fact that it's only legal state-by-state while still being federally illegal, which is a whole different topic altogether. So yeah, there are some problems with legal cannabis for sure. Nevertheless, I don't think it's as bad as you're fearing.

There have been some great positives to it as well. One of my close friends has always been really into growing cannabis, not just as a cannabis user, but just as a botanist. He can now pursue his hobby in the privacy of his own home without any fear of legal consequences. He's not a drug dealer, not trying to run a business or anything like that. Just a guy doing what he loves doing and not harming anyone else in the process.

I think capitalism is largely responsible for the nasty, marketing side of legalized drugs. However, I don't think any of that's going to change without some kind of revolution. It's a much bigger issue that affects many more aspects of our lives aside from just drugs. That said, I think an effort to legalize would correct some of the injustices that we currently deal with. There are so many people sitting in cages (or dealing with the social consequences of having lived in a cage for several years), who pose no legitimate threat to themselves or others, because of drug law violations, and I think any steps we could take towards correcting that injustice would be a victory for humanity.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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