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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: MagicMush123] 2
#27146004 - 01/13/21 01:52 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The absence of evidence does mean that no one has proven the election was stolen. Without evidence, your belief that it was stolen is purely a matter of faith. That's fine and all, but don't be pushing your faith on other people.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Posts: 31,615
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#27146006 - 01/13/21 01:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said: The Democrats exploited the corona virus to get mail in ballots through because they knew that was the best way to rig election because they knew they didn't stand a chance. They even dumped off thousands of Biden votes in the middle of the night in swing states where they were losing. They were good at covering their tracks and the absence of evidence doesn't mean they didn't steal the election
The absence of evidence means that anyone claiming the election definitely was stolen is full of shit though, right? They are claiming it's definitely true when at most they can prove that it might be true.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Kryptos] 2
#27146009 - 01/13/21 01:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Sure, but the geography of simultaneously living in Indonesia and the US doesn't really work. I guess I should have clarified that.
Nations are social constructs, too. Maybe he/she lived in the indonesian embassy in the U.S.
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Nonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 5
#27146053 - 01/13/21 02:26 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: I'm working right now, but off the top of my head one of the by far most damning pieces of evidence would be the video that got released of Ruby Freeman (and 3 others) pulling out an unmarked suitcase in the middle of the night after having told all the other poll workers to go home and scanning the same stacks of ballots multiple times.
I found the video with a simple google search, but I had to do some deeper digging to find out who Ruby Freeman was.
For anyone catching up on this thread, here's what I was able to piece together: Ruby Freeman isn't like a big name politician or anything like that, so don't blame yourself if you didn't know who she was before this thread. If you had never heard of her before, that means you're a normal person who isn't wrapped up in this conspiracy theory. Ruby Freeman is a woman who runs a kiosk at a mall where she sells beauty products or something like that. Since this whole conspiracy started, she's been doxxed by Trumpers, which is unfortunate for her. I'm sure she's been dealing with harassment for a while now.
So, why are all these QAnoner's focusing on ruby freeman? Well, it's mostly because of this video. They're calling this 'suitcasegate'. If you don't want to watch it, I totally understand, so here's a synopsis:
- The ballots are being counted
- There are two republican observers who are watching the ballot counts, along with the press
- A woman walks in the room and (allegedly) instructs everyone to stop counting for the day and pack up
- Almost everyone in the room packs up and covers their ballot counting stations with cloths, except for two women in yellow shirts in the back (one of these women, I assume, is Ruby Freeman)
- The observers and the press leave
- The only people remaining on camera are a woman in purple, who wasn't counting ballots, the woman who instructed everyone to leave, and the two women in yellow at ballot counting stations
- We see the women in yellow pull four unmarked briefcases filled with ballots from under a table that has allegedly been there since the morning
- They unpack the ballots and start counting them until 1 AM
The woman providing commentary for the video alleges that this footage is evidence that there were ballots being counted without any witnesses present. Therefore, fraud.
Perhaps Enlil could help answer whether this video would be considered evidence in a trial of fraud, considering his legal experience, but as a layman, I'm a little skeptical for a number of reasons: 1. The only sources of information arguing that this video is evidence of fraud are conspiracy theorists and far right media sources. 2. There's no audio, so the claim that the woman walked in the room and instructed everyone to stop counting for the day and pack up is hearsay. 3. Can we really confirm that the two women in the back wearing yellow shirts were even ballot counters? Their desks look nothing like the other desks in the room that were covered up. 4. Can we really confirm that these briefcases contained ballots? It's clear from the video that there are documents in the briefcases, but we can't tell that they are ballots from the video alone. 5. Assuming that the answer to the question in my previous point is "yes," can we really confirm that the ballots are being counted by the women in yellow after 11 PM? I can't tell what they are doing with them from the video alone. 6. And this is the most important point The woman in the video providing commentary claims that the ballots are being counted without any witnesses present (a clear reference to the two republican observers who exited the building along with the press). Do the cameras filming the entire event not count as witnesses? chopstick, you need to ask yourself the following question with an open mind: Can we really call this a ballot counting that happened without any witnesses when there were cameras rolling the entire time?
Idk, chopstick, is this really the most damning piece of evidence you have? I really don't think it's reasonable for us to conclude from this video that these briefcases even contained ballots in the first place, let alone conclude that they contained ballots that they were counted without witnesses. Furthermore, there's nothing covert or secretive going on here at all. The entire thing is on video, so I don't think it's fair to say that these people are trying to hide something in the first place.
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chopstick said: Anyway, it's 100% verifiable that officials deliberately lied about a water main break that never actually happened in order to get everyone to leave.
Really? 100% verifiable? The best source I could find on the issue was this article. This looks like a conspiracy blog rather than real journalism. The article claims that officials lied about the water main break, but they provide no evidence whatsoever. I think we can all dismiss this one pretty easily.
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chopstick said: And that's not even getting into the hundreds of thousands of ballots that were adjudicated and could have been switched to either candidate with absolutely zero paper trail of who the original vote was supposed to go to in Georgia.
Again, making claims without providing a shred of evidence.
chopstick, I highly recommend taking a break from reading these conspiracy theories and just thinking for yourself. You're alienating yourself from everyone else with your toxic worldview. I'm concerned for you.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Again, An employee of the SOS explained what happened in that video. The people were going to go home for the night. They packed up the uncounted ballots in those boxes and sealed them to be counted the next day. The SOS called and told them to continue counting. They then opened those boxes and continued counting.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Enlil] 3
#27146061 - 01/13/21 02:34 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Enlil said: Again, An employee of the SOS explained what happened in that video. The people were going to go home for the night. They packed up the uncounted ballots in those boxes and sealed them to be counted the next day. The SOS called and told them to continue counting. They then opened those boxes and continued counting.
I thought it looked pretty benign just from the footage itself.
The sad thing is, I don't think these facts are going to help convince chopstick (or people like chopstick) that this isn't evidence of fraud. chopstick already believes it is evidence, and any claims that it isn't evidence are just the result of propaganda or MSM lies from their perspective.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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They made it sound like those boxes were hidden under the table, but the video shows when those boxes were put there. It shows them loading the boxes with uncounted ballots, closing them, and sealing them. That was like an hour before they pulled them out.
Chopstick and people like him are going to believe that everyone is in on it. Even when the Republican SOS tells him that the video shows nothing illegal, he won't believe it because everyone who doesn't support his narrative is in on it.
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Psicomb
shroom or die



Registered: 01/13/18
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Loc: the womb
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Thanks a ton for breaking it down as best you can. These narratives conspiracy folks come up with are wild. These debates have literally been debates about fairy tales, and have been for quite some time. Even before Trump, though, I remember a lot of folks shitting their pants about "Jade Helm" which never happened.. those same folks just moved on to the "election scandal of 2020" and used social media to bring all these new folks who lack critical thinking skills
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Psicomb] 2
#27146140 - 01/13/21 03:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psicomvb said: those same folks just moved on to the "election scandal of 2020" and used social media to bring all these new folks who lack critical thinking skills
That's the part that bothers me the most - the spread of it. I had lots of friends I watched make the transformation from rational thinker to conspiracy theorist over social media.
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Psicomb] 1
#27146141 - 01/13/21 03:38 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The election was stolen.
You guys are jumping through hoops to "prove" in your minds that it wasn't. Because as soon as you have to admit that fact, your entire construct of reality falls apart.
It literally doesn't matter what evidence I provide. You will always find a way to "disprove" it somehow, someway, no matter how damning it may be.
But it was stolen, and no amount of mental rearrangement will change this fact.
Many years in the future, after this is all over, this will be a commonly accepted fact virtually undisputed by historians.
edit: Oh, and by the way, you didn't "debunk" the video of them illegally counting fraudulent ballots at 1 AM in the morning at all. You just labeled it as being a "Qanon conspiracy theory", and that's about it.
And for those of you who are curious, the Georgia SoS absolutely was in on the fraud. He did everything in his power to deliberately stonewall Trump's investigations into the fraud that took place in Georgia. Which makes sense, they never could have gotten away with the election fraud without the co-operation of the top local State government officials. These people are scum.
Edited by chopstick (01/13/21 03:43 PM)
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Psilynut2
Stranger

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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 4
#27146148 - 01/13/21 03:43 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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You haven't provided any evidence at all . You say stupid shit like " the judges were afraid " .
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 4
#27146159 - 01/13/21 03:50 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: The election was stolen.
I seriously doubt that it was.
Quote:
chopstick said: You guys are jumping through hoops to "prove" in your minds that it wasn't.
No, that's not what we're doing at all because we don't have the burden of proof. You are the one making allegations of fraud. You are the one who must prove the election was stolen. We have asked you for evidence multiple times, and the evidence you provided isn't conclusive.
It's not about "proving" that the election was legally sound. There just isn't any evidence to suggest otherwise.
The idea that the election was stolen is an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The only piece of evidence you have provided was not extraordinary. In fact, it wasn't evidence at all. It was a video documenting completely legal election behavior.
Quote:
chopstick said: Because as soon as you have to admit that fact, your entire construct of reality falls apart.
Look in the mirror, chopstick.
- If it turns out the election wasn't really fraudulent, then it means Trump's claims that it was fraudulent were false
- If it turns out that Trump made a false claim, then Trump is capable of lying
- If Trump is capable of lying, then the claim that any media critical of him is "fake news" must also be false
- If the MSM isn't really "fake news," then the average citizens who are critical of Trump aren't really suffering from "TDS" induced by MSM brainwashing
- If average citizens aren't really brainwashed by the MSM into having TDS, then we're not all just brainwashed fools.
I already accept the possibility that the election might have been stolen. There have been fraudulent elections in our world throughout history, so I think it's something we all need to be aware of. If I discovered any evidence that this election was actually fraudulent, it wouldn't shatter my worldview at all. My worldview already accounts for the possibility of election fraud. The thing is, there just isn't any convincing evidence of election fraud.
Who's worldview is really at stake here? Mine, or yours?
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chopstick said: It literally doesn't matter what evidence I provide. You will always find a way to "disprove" it somehow, someway, no matter how damning it may be.
I always keep an open mind. If you provide us with more evidence, I will happily look into it.
Quote:
chopstick said: Many years in the future, after this is all over, this will be a commonly accepted fact virtually undisputed by historians.
I guess we'll see.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,615
Loc: 613
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#27146169 - 01/13/21 03:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: You haven't provided any evidence at all . You say stupid shit like " the judges were afraid " .
Not because there is any evidence they were, but because they would need to be in order for the "election was stolen" narrative to sort of make sense. Otherwise, judges appointed by Trump would have thrown him a bone if the suits had merit.
Meanwhile, talk of violence against Pence for not overturning the election is well known. If anything these Trump appointed judges probably have more to fear from their own side.
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OutsideOfMyMind
LSD Self Administrative Director



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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 1
#27146186 - 01/13/21 04:06 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: The election was stolen.
You guys are jumping through hoops to "prove" in your minds that it wasn't. Because as soon as you have to admit that fact, your entire construct of reality falls apart.
It literally doesn't matter what evidence I provide. You will always find a way to "disprove" it somehow, someway, no matter how damning it may be.
But it was stolen, and no amount of mental rearrangement will change this fact.
Many years in the future, after this is all over, this will be a commonly accepted fact virtually undisputed by historians.
edit: Oh, and by the way, you didn't "debunk" the video of them illegally counting fraudulent ballots at 1 AM in the morning at all. You just labeled it as being a "Qanon conspiracy theory", and that's about it.
And for those of you who are curious, the Georgia SoS absolutely was in on the fraud. He did everything in his power to deliberately stonewall Trump's investigations into the fraud that took place in Georgia. Which makes sense, they never could have gotten away with the election fraud without the co-operation of the top local State government officials. These people are scum.
Well Trump just got impeached so even if it was "stolen" he won't be able to be president ever again.
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick]
#27146197 - 01/13/21 04:10 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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--------------------
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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It doesnt work like that.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: SirTripAlot] 1
#27146202 - 01/13/21 04:11 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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It does if the senate convicts
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27146210 - 01/13/21 04:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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2/3rds under the turtle?Is it constitutionally sound to proceed after a president has left office? Meaning impeachment and removal is a politcal process; once Dump leaves office, he is no longer the president.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/13/21 04:16 PM)
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27146212 - 01/13/21 04:14 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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But not just based on him being impeached. He was already impeached once before this.
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


Registered: 03/30/18
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I get the impression chopstick would be happier if we lived in a country were suitcases had lids like monotubs and folks could just be locked up just on a hunch.
How about this evidence: Could it be that the only reason the insurgents didn't find the ballot boxes at the capitol is because they were looking for suitcases?
Talk about a blunder from bad intel!!
Oh wait that's just speculation, my bad,,,,
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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