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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Enlil]
    #27135201 - 01/08/21 12:37 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

@enlil-It's highly debatable as to whether or not the police did or didnt help these people in.

I dont think your argument that police action is justifiable if they werent put
into the situation willingly.

The cops who shot jacob blake were responding to a call, so they were unwillingly, by your metric, put
into the situation by a 3rd party and shot jacob blake after they deemed him a threat.

I seem to remember you speaking out against this event many times.

Any cop is doing a job willingly. That whole argument is bull shit


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods]
    #27135205 - 01/08/21 12:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder what chopstick thinks about the antifa guy who was executed in a hail of bullets by cops while he sat in his car.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineEzuma
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: MycoBrainz] * 1
    #27135209 - 01/08/21 12:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MycoBrainz said:
Calling American protesters terrorists is admitting you don't believe in the 1st amendment. If it's like that then forget the entire constitution and bill of rights.




the right to protest should be protected (though of course its trampled all the time) but when you physically attack and kill people, or when you attempt a coup, you are no longer a protest.

Think about it a second, what kind of democracy could survive if it didn't resist coup attempts.

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: psi]
    #27135211 - 01/08/21 12:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Who knows. But we're talking about the unarmed woman who is now dead and not
the guy playing dress up who didnt actually do anything despite a scary photo and is still alive.



You also spoke more generally in that comment about the intent of "These people", and that is what I was responding to.

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
These people were intent on taking good selfies and that alone it seems.






That comment was slightly satire but also based on evidence Ive seen. Like the 100s
of selfies taken and the 0 overthrown government


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27135212 - 01/08/21 12:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Solution: have a bipartisan bill designating “anti government extremists” as terrorists, so then the next Republican president can start throwing BLM organizers in Gitmo.




I know you are pouring it on, but there is a solution, and it's probably more a long the lines of "don't storm the Capitol building, because if you do we will consider it terrorism." It doesn't have to be overreaching.

That said, I wouldn't put it past them to make it overreaching. The Patriot Act is proof enough...


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] * 1
    #27135213 - 01/08/21 12:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The reality is that this entire event is being massively overblown because the media has decided they want to provoke outright hatred and fear towards anything conservative and anything considered Pro-Trump.

We are being divided by a hateful and sick media and their backers who want to keep the American people at eachother's throats while promoting blatant hypocrisy, hyperbole, and outright lies.

The media has been infected by out-right hatred for anything they see as being associated with Trump or his movement. So of course they would refuse to condemn the killing of a Trump supporter, because they see Trump and all his supporters as scum who literally deserve to be killed or sent to prison for the rest of their lives.

This hatred is out of control. It needs to stop. All I'm asking is that we hold everyone accountable for their actions and hold everyone to the same standard instead of promoting violence against one group of people while letting the other group off the hook just because their political views are considered more "appropriate."

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: natedawgnow] * 3
    #27135217 - 01/08/21 12:44 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

You're being intellectually dishonest here.  A cop who responds to a call is taking a job wherein he takes calculated risks of what may or may not happen on that call.  He chooses the methods and tactics used, and those methods should be designed to protect people.

These cops were inside a building doing security.  This doesn't place an expectation upon them that they should protect an angry mob coming through the door any more than they should protect a suicide bomber who comes through.  It's a wholly different situation, whether you want to admit that or not.

As to whether police assisted them, that's on those particular police.  I have no information about police inviting anyone in, but to the extent that this may have happened, I don't think anyone invited the mob to break the windows or this woman to crawl through the hole left thereafter....

Actions have consequences.  Crawl through a window at a person with an angry mob behind you, and you may get shot.:shrug:


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Ezuma] * 1
    #27135221 - 01/08/21 12:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ezuma said:


2.
This however, was an overt attempt at a coup. This wasn't a misunderstood exercise in protest, this was a violent -and illegal- attempt to storm the capital building, in order to capture and potentially murder officials to push an extremist agenda. I know you will never see it this way, as you are apparently one of these people, but the difference is obvious to anyone with half a brain.




How.. how in God's name can you possible say this was an attempted coup?

First of all, it's not like Trump ordered his people to storm the Capitol building. He *wanted* them to stay peaceful, and asked for them to stay peaceful multiple times. True, he is partially to blame due to his poor organization skills and lack of planning but at the end of the day, he didn't tell them to storm the Capitol, they did it of their own free will.

Secondly, we all know that storming the Capitol building would accomplish nothing other than temporarily scaring some lawmakers shitless. How is that a coup? It's not. It is merely an expression of anger that the people hold against a government which they feel does not represent them.

At *no point* was this an attempted coup.

If it were, Trump would have ordered his followers to storm the building *with a large armed force* and then hold it for weeks so that the vote could not be certified.

Did that happen? Of course not.

It's not a fucking coup attempt. Stop calling it that. It's a bold faced lie.

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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] * 3
    #27135222 - 01/08/21 12:46 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The president encouraged a violent mob to take over the seat of the us government, and they did.  It was a historic moment of insurrection. Five people were killed. Nothing overblown about it.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #27135224 - 01/08/21 12:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You're being intellectually dishonest here. 





Says the king of intellectual dishonesty himself.

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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Enlil]
    #27135227 - 01/08/21 12:47 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

@enlil-It's been heated for weeks those cops should have been mentally prepared for anything.

I understand your argument. And I disagree with it


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Invisiblechopstick
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods] * 1
    #27135228 - 01/08/21 12:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The president encouraged a violent mob to take over the seat of the us government, and they did.  It was a historic moment of insurrection. Five people were killed. Nothing overblown about it.




Koods, please stop lying to yourself. I know you want to make this into something far bigger than it actually is, but at some point you have to admit the truth.

Trump encouraged people to gather and march down Pennsylvania Ave. At no point did he encourage violence or tell them to storm the building. He didn't want for things to get out of hand like this.

Unfortunately he underestimated the amount of anger in the crowd, and then the crowd, of its own free will let their anger get the best of them.

It's an unfortunate situation, but to say Trump wanted this to happen, is simply not true.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] * 3
    #27135229 - 01/08/21 12:49 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

It was a coup attempt.  Trump's lawyer lost in court then demanded a "trial by combat."  Minutes later, Trump told his crowd to march to the capitol. 

What do you think he meant by "trial by combat" if not "go kick ass and win this thing for me?"


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick]
    #27135231 - 01/08/21 12:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Just to be clear, my argument is about 1 womans death, not a message of condoned behavior.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Enlil]
    #27135232 - 01/08/21 12:51 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Does Guiliani have any liability for those words?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods]
    #27135233 - 01/08/21 12:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

The word “peaceful” never left trumps mouth until after people had been killed


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: natedawgnow]
    #27135234 - 01/08/21 12:53 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
@enlil-It's been heated for weeks those cops should have been mentally prepared for anything.

I understand your argument. And I disagree with it



More than mentally...they should have been tactically prepared.  They should have been there in force.  There were a lot of things that should have happened.  At the moment that the woman crawled through that window with a mob behind her, none of that mattered anymore.  That particular officer had only one choice. 

It's sad that she died, but that is of her doing.  No blame should fall on the individual who shot her.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods]
    #27135236 - 01/08/21 12:54 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Does Guiliani have any liability for those words?



I predict that he will be disbarred.  He'll probably be pardoned, though, so i doubt he'll be charged with anything.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: psi] * 1
    #27135238 - 01/08/21 12:55 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
She shouldnt have been there but she didnt need to die. These people were intent on taking good selfies and that alone it seems. A barrage of rubber bullets would
stop her in her tracks.




And if the National Guard had been there in advance, nobody would have made it into the building in the first place. The most powerful country in the world is fully capable of keeping its legislature secured against angry mobs. It was 100% avoidable that anyone made it this far, and that is mostly on the guy who could have called in the National Guard sooner and didn't.

Which is not to say the cop who shot her couldn't have made a better call that potentially would have prevented this outcome. How about a "Stop or I'll shoot?"




As a matter of fact, the cop clearly told her to stop at least once before shooting. It's audible in some of the videos.

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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Kryptos]
    #27135239 - 01/08/21 12:57 PM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Probably these mega lawsuits against trumps lawyers will be their true punishment. I hope gofundme doesn’t allow fundraising for their legal defense


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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