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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27156239 - 01/18/21 10:09 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I agree that to even suggest, even if it were by accident, any degree of illegitimacy regarding the holocaust, is not a good look.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27156240 - 01/18/21 10:11 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Omg that’s such a good question.


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Edited by koods (01/18/21 10:12 PM)


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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods] * 1
    #27156245 - 01/18/21 10:14 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

Falcon if you ever come to dc I’ll take you to the holocaust museum and you can ask these questions.


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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: The Ecstatic] * 1
    #27156281 - 01/18/21 10:49 PM (1 month, 7 days ago)

I think he's more so defending someone he likes, who happened to deny the holocaust... He clearly said the holocaust happened...


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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #27156288 - 01/18/21 10:57 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27156297 - 01/18/21 11:09 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

That telegram shows the number of Jews that were sent to the various concentration camps.  The fact that Germans were sending people to concentration camps wasn't a secret.  America sent well over 100,000 Japanese to concentration camps during WWII.

Do we know the number sent is the number that were killed?  We can make that assumption.

Again (and I have to keep saying this), I'm not arguing against the holocaust.  I'm just saying that people didn't find written evidence.  Obviously it got destroyed as the Germans were losing the war.  But there was WAY more than enough eyewitness testimony to know it was real.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
    #27156300 - 01/18/21 11:11 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

DontFearThePeepr said:
Probably because they made an effort to destroy as many documents and other damning proof when it became evident they would lose the war. What is your point supposed to be here?



Exactly.  My point is that I was wrongly accused of being a holocaust denier because I pointed out they couldn't find the documents.  But again, there was PLENTY of eyewitness testimony.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: koods] * 1
    #27156302 - 01/18/21 11:12 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Questioning the culpability of Hitler for the holocaust is holocaust denial



I'm not questioning his culpability.  STOP LYING.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: The Ecstatic] * 2
    #27156308 - 01/18/21 11:16 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
He’s not defending Hitler, he just hates when people make believe about Hitler



Exactly.  Can you link to the holocaust plans (since Krytos hasn't)?



lol why do you do this



Because I'm not afraid of being honest.  I understand that I shouldn't say anything about it because the retards will come out and call me a holocaust denier, but I'm not afraid.

Look how much shit I took for saying there was no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion among other things.  I'm simply not afraid of honesty I guess.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #27156312 - 01/18/21 11:18 PM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
I think he's more so defending someone he likes, who happened to deny the holocaust... He clearly said the holocaust happened...



Some people get it.  :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineOutsideOfMyMind
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #27156492 - 01/19/21 01:29 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)



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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27156554 - 01/19/21 02:44 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Look how much shit I took for saying there was no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion among other things.  I'm simply not afraid of honesty I guess.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Of course there was a lot of evidence of the holocaust - I'm not denying it as koods and Kryptos are make believing.

I'm saying they never found any written plans, that's all.




I wonder who else has a habit of destroying evidence...


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 4
    #27156556 - 01/19/21 02:45 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
If you wanted to be honest, you could say QAnon believes some of the same things, just like you could say Putin is against American empire.  But don't call him a QAnon follower if he's not.  And don't call me a Putin lover just because I don't believe in American empire.



If I ran into a guy on the street and he started telling me about how Jesus saves, about how I need to ask for forgiveness so I can get into heaven and about how God sacrificed his only son so that I could get into heaven, would you blame me for thinking that this guy is a Christian? I think that's the most reasonable conclusion to draw, given that interaction.

chopstick repeats QAnon talking points with nearly religious veracity. Do you really blame me for thinking chopstick follows QAnon?

Falcon, the battles you choose to fight on the forums here speak volumes of your own position, by the way. You quickly stand up to defend Trump supporters (saying "but not all of them are white supremacists") when I claim that the Trump presidency was a large victory for white supremacists. You quickly stand up to defend chopstick when I call him a QAnon follower.

However, when chopstick calls "the left" a bunch of Nazis? Silence from Falcon.
When chopstick calls "the left" completely and utterly insane? Silence from Falcon.

Your priorities are so obvious.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27156581 - 01/19/21 03:19 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
If I ran into a guy on the street and he started telling me about how Jesus saves, about how I need to ask for forgiveness so I can get into heaven and about how God sacrificed his only son so that I could get into heaven, would you blame me for thinking that this guy is a Christian? I think that's the most reasonable conclusion to draw, given that interaction.



I absolutely agree in that case.

But I'm talking about conclusions that anyone can infer.  Trump said he believed the elections were rigged.  Is it not possible for someone who heard Trump say that believe Trump without knowing anything about QAnon?

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Falcon, the battles you choose to fight on the forums here speak volumes of your own position, by the way. You quickly stand up to defend Trump supporters (saying "but not all of them are white supremacists") when I claim that the Trump presidency was a large victory for white supremacists.



No, that wasn't the battle I fought.  In fact, I agreed with you on this very point

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
You quickly stand up to defend chopstick when I call him a QAnon follower.



See my first point above.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
However, when chopstick calls "the left" a bunch of Nazis? Silence from Falcon.
When chopstick calls "the left" completely and utterly insane? Silence from Falcon.

Your priorities are so obvious.



I tend not to jump in when others do, especially when others gang up on someone.  I agree he shouldn't have made those generalizations, as I consider myself the left.


--------------------
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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Kryptos]
    #27156584 - 01/19/21 03:20 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Look how much shit I took for saying there was no evidence of Trump-Russia collusion among other things.  I'm simply not afraid of honesty I guess.




Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Of course there was a lot of evidence of the holocaust - I'm not denying it as koods and Kryptos are make believing.

I'm saying they never found any written plans, that's all.




I wonder who else has a habit of destroying evidence...



I'm not denying that.


--------------------
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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27156585 - 01/19/21 03:21 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Even Nonagon admitted this was correct.




If you really think this comment you've quoted is in support of the idea that you're not a Holocaust denier, then you are sorrily mistaken.

Look, the most important point for me here is to discern whether or not you are a Holocaust denier. I think that Holocaust denial is a hateful ideology, and it is a great threat to humanity. I think that holocaust deniers ought to be exposed for what they are, because exposure is the only way to prevent the ideology from spreading. Hateful ideologies (like Holocaust denial) spread through covert means, through symbolism and codes. That's why exposure and education is so important. Any attempt that you make to shift the focus of the conversation from "is Falcon a Holocaust denier?" to "but did we ever really find any signed plans for the final solution from Hitler?" is shifting the goalposts, and it's not a good look for you in this situation. It makes you look like a Holocaust denier.

All of that said, Falcon, I've believed that you were a Holocaust denier ever since that discussion you pulled the quote from, and I still believe that you are. Admittedly, tou're not the worst kind of Holocaust denier out there, but you are highly sympathetic to that point of view. You're not super blatant about it, you don't believe that it didn't happen or anything like that. However, it's quite clear that you wanted to cast a certain doubt over the degree to which Hitler was responsible (which was a very high degree indeed), and that itself is a form of Holocaust denial. If you want all of us to stop calling you a Holocaust denier (because I'm not the only one), you need to stop focusing so much on whether Hitler had any "signed plans" for the final solution. It really doesn't matter whether or not there were "signed plans" when it comes to Hitler's culpability. It's so obvious that Hitler played a huge role in the Holocaust, so the question of whether or not he had any "signed plans" shouldn't even be relevant. The fact that you insist on focusing on this specific little detail is what tips me off to the idea that you are probably sympathetic to Holocaust denial as a worldview.

If I could summarize your brand of Holocaust denial it would be as follows: Falcon has no problem with criticizing Hitler, but he's sick and tired of all the make believe about Hitler. It's not a good look, Falcon.

I don't know if you know this about me (can't remember if I told you before), but I am Jewish. I'm not a religious man, but Judaism runs in my family, and I was raised that way. I even have ancestors that were killed in the Holocaust. It's a part of who I am, and the fact that I am an atheist hasn't spared me from some of the hatred I've experienced firsthand. I've had people call me a k*ke, I've had people draw swastikas on my personal belongings, I've had food thrown at me while people shouted slurs at me, I've had people make jokes about how I'm greedy and just hoard money, I've had people call me a "dirty jew," I've seen antisemitic propaganda floating around in online discussion forums, I've seen angry mobs of Americans chanting "gas the k*kes" and "Jews will not replace us". Even after seeing all of that, I still find Holocaust denial to be one of the most dangerous ideologies out there - not just for Jews like me, but for all of mankind. To deny the facts of the Holocaust is to deny the consequences of white supremacy, to deny history, and to deny that this sort of thing can happen again. Indeed, something as horrific as the Holocaust could happen again, and that's what scares me the most about the current political climate.

If you're really not a Holocaust denier, you should have no problem admitting that whether or not we ever discovered any "signed plans" or whatever from Hitler is completely irrelevant to Hitler's culpability. There is so much evidence of his culpability outside of that factor that it shouldn't even be a question whether or not Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27156587 - 01/19/21 03:24 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But I'm talking about conclusions that anyone can infer.  Trump said he believed the elections were rigged.  Is it not possible for someone who heard Trump say that believe Trump without knowing anything about QAnon?




chopstick repeats many more QAnon talking points, not just the one about the election being stolen. The claims of election fraud was one example I gave, but there are others as well (like the JFK assassination being staged by the CIA, the unshakable defense of Ross Ulbricht, and more). It really is a lot like the hypothetical case I gave about running into a Christian on the streets.

If it were just the claims of election fraud, you would have a point, but that's clearly not the case with chopstick.


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Edited by Nonagon Infinity (01/19/21 03:35 AM)


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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 3
    #27156595 - 01/19/21 03:31 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Your reply would be worked just by saying really throwing the Nazi and Hitler card around there pretty loose and get back on topic. On the topic on the 6th I felt some of the feelings I felt on 9/11. I felt that this was an attack on OUR country and its very foundations of it's democratic process like they do in jackboot Asian/European shitholes we berate that elect someone and then month laterhear about a civil war decimating their country. Which is one of the big ironies because all the while of warnings that biden will bring communistic authoritarian rule to America while people in our current presidents circle are calling for martial law to just overturn a free democratic election effectively destroying America.

Yet. There are still people either trying to justify what they did, minimize how important an attack on our Capital during the count of an electoral Democratic processes is vs an attack on a JCP by random looters. Trying to justify by deflecting and saying it must have been antifa even though none of them had face coverings and we're all pretty much so far identified to be all right wing radicals in thisthis stop the steal campaign. They are all Trump supporters Die Hard, qanon supporters and other radicalized right-wingers but certainly not antifa which is a disgusting lie to try and minimize what happened. There doesn't seem to be a universal pain that we all feel about this entire Democratic heart of our nation, the lack of which disturbing beyond all belief to me as a very patriotic American


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27156607 - 01/19/21 03:49 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Look, the most important point for me here is to discern whether or not you are a Holocaust denier. I think that Holocaust denial is a hateful ideology, and it is a great threat to humanity. I think that holocaust deniers ought to be exposed for what they are, because exposure is the only way to prevent the ideology from spreading. Hateful ideologies (like Holocaust denial) spread through covert means, through symbolism and codes. That's why exposure and education is so important.



So far, I'm with you.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Any attempt that you make to shift the focus of the conversation from "is Falcon a Holocaust denier?" to "but did we ever really find any signed plans for the final solution from Hitler?" is shifting the goalposts, and it's not a good look for you in this situation. It makes you look like a Holocaust denier.



Maybe to you, but as I told The Ecstatic, I'm not afraid of honesty.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
All of that said, Falcon, I've believed that you were a Holocaust denier ever since that discussion you pulled the quote from, and I still believe that you are. Admittedly, tou're not the worst kind of Holocaust denier out there



So someone who wants only the truth is a holocaust denier?

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
...but you are highly sympathetic to that point of view. You're not super blatant about it, you don't believe that it didn't happen or anything like that. However, it's quite clear that you wanted to cast a certain doubt over the degree to which Hitler was responsible (which was a very high degree indeed), and that itself is a form of Holocaust denial.



That's make believe.  Hitler was totally responsible, whether they found signed plans or not.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
If you want all of us to stop calling you a Holocaust denier (because I'm not the only one), you need to stop focusing so much on whether Hitler had any "signed plans" for the final solution. It really doesn't matter whether or not there were "signed plans" when it comes to Hitler's culpability. It's so obvious that Hitler played a huge role in the Holocaust, so the question of whether or not he had any "signed plans" shouldn't even be relevant.



I agree!

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
The fact that you insist on focusing on this specific little detail is what tips me off to the idea that you are probably sympathetic to Holocaust denial as a worldview.



I actually didn't want to focus on this at all.  I brought up something completely unrelated by Paul Craig Roberts and Krytos dismissed him because he defended a holocaust denier.  I looked it up on Wikipedia which stated he defended David Irving for saying ""No German plans, or orders from Hitler, or from Himmler or anyone else have ever been found for an organized holocaust by gas and cremation of Jews".  That appeared to be a correct statement, and that's how the focus shifted away from the original argument.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
If I could summarize your brand of Holocaust denial it would be as follows: Falcon has no problem with criticizing Hitler, but he's sick and tired of all the make believe about Hitler. It's not a good look, Falcon.



You're absolutely right.  I'm anti-make believe.  I apologize if you find that offensive.

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
I don't know if you know this about me (can't remember if I told you before), but I am Jewish. I'm not a religious man, but Judaism runs in my family, and I was raised that way. I even have ancestors that were killed in the Holocaust. It's a part of who I am, and the fact that I am an atheist hasn't spared me from some of the hatred I've experienced firsthand. I've had people call me a k*ke, I've had people draw swastikas on my personal belongings, I've had food thrown at me while people shouted slurs at me, I've had people make jokes about how I'm greedy and just hoard money, I've had people call me a "dirty jew," I've seen antisemitic propaganda floating around in online discussion forums, I've seen angry mobs of Americans chanting "gas the k*kes" and "Jews will not replace us". Even after seeing all of that, I still find Holocaust denial to be one of the most dangerous ideologies out there - not just for Jews like me, but for all of mankind.



I'm truly sorry to hear there are so many people like that out there.  Really I am.  :heart:

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
To deny the facts of the Holocaust is to deny the consequences of white supremacy, to deny history, and to deny that this sort of thing can happen again. Indeed, something as horrific as the Holocaust could happen again, and that's what scares me the most about the current political climate.

If you're really not a Holocaust denier, you should have no problem admitting that whether or not we ever discovered any "signed plans" or whatever from Hitler is completely irrelevant to Hitler's culpability. There is so much evidence of his culpability outside of that factor that it shouldn't even be a question whether or not Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust.



Yes, I'm willing to admit it's irrelevant, and I already have many times.  :mushroom2:  :peace:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


Edited by Falcon91Wolvrn03 (01/19/21 03:58 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #27156612 - 01/19/21 03:55 AM (1 month, 6 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
chopstick repeats many more QAnon talking points, not just the one about the election being stolen. The claims of election fraud was one example I gave, but there are others as well (like the JFK assassination being staged by the CIA, the unshakable defense of Ross Ulbricht, and more). It really is a lot like the hypothetical case I gave about running into a Christian on the streets.

If it were just the claims of election fraud, you would have a point, but that's clearly not the case with chopstick.



I've seen those other arguments LONG before I've ever heard of QAnon.  :shrug:


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by christopera
* Capitol & White House evacuated...because of a stray plane exclusive58 627 5 05/13/05 10:27 PM
by Catalysis
* TRUMP 2024
( 1 2 3 4 ... 812 813 )
XUL 159,421 16,246 02/25/21 10:13 AM
by vinsue
* THE PERFECT STORM RonoS 1,050 9 03/26/03 01:23 PM
by Evolving
* Gunman (and woman?) loose in Capitol Building PsiloKitten 303 3 10/30/03 04:32 PM
by wingnutx
* British forces storm Iraqi jail to rescue fellow servicemen. psilomonkey 535 4 09/21/05 04:18 AM
by Lazlow

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