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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 3
#27153945 - 01/17/21 05:37 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: It's all downhill from here, unless the masses manage to break free from the mainstream media programmed brainwashing. I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Okay, dude. Have fun hunkering down in your little hidey hole while you wait for the left to destroy America or whatever. We'll all be out here living our lives whenever you're ready to accept reality.
Oh yeah, and by the way, the election wasn't stolen. That has been thoroughly debunked multiple times in this thread. Even when we demanded evidence of a stolen election, you provided a piece of media that wasn't evidence, so we dismissed it. Then again, you take all of our debunking as evidence that we've all just been "brainwashed".
Can you not see how your worldview is isolating yourself from other people? You are pushing yourself further and further away from rational discourse, and it's making it a lot harder for people to communicate with you. There's still time for you to get off the QAnon train and, when you do, we'll be here for you.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,942
Last seen: 4 hours, 48 minutes
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
chopstick said: It's all downhill from here, unless the masses manage to break free from the mainstream media programmed brainwashing. I'm not holding my breath on that one.
Okay, dude. Have fun hunkering down in your little hidey hole while you wait for the left to destroy America or whatever. We'll all be out here living our lives whenever you're ready to accept reality.
Oh yeah, and by the way, the election wasn't stolen. That has been thoroughly debunked multiple times in this thread. Even when we demanded evidence of a stolen election, you provided a piece of media that wasn't evidence, so we dismissed it. Then again, you take all of our debunking as evidence that we've all just been "brainwashed".
Can you not see how your worldview is isolating yourself from other people? You are pushing yourself further and further away from rational discourse, and it's making it a lot harder for people to communicate with you. There's still time for you to get off the QAnon train and, when you do, we'll be here for you.
Hes got terribly fallacious reasoning. And super typical of paranoia.
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,079
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Oh, I certainly have no plans to "hunker down" and not live my life. I'll be out there living it up with the best of them. In-fact, you could even happen to bump into me.. and to you, I would be just a normal person, no different from anyone else.
That said, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with calling out the direction America is now taking. The left is totally sold on this idea that anybody who is opposed to them is a literal Nazi who deserves a bullet between the eyes, which couldn't be further from the truth, but the truth apparently no longer matters since the country has gone completely insane. And that is an extremely dangerous position to take because it can only lead to violence and civil unrest when such insane beliefs become commonly held, as they are now. And we have the mainstream media and their backers, who have deliberately provoked these divisions & false truths in a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, to thank for this.
There are plenty of things wrong with the right, with Trump, and the movement he created. I have been very critical of all of them. However, at-least they haven't devolved to the point of calling the other half of the country as being "fascists" who deserve nothing less than to be "cleansed" from the country, as the left is now doing.
Also, it's very telling that you immediately refer to me as being a Qanon follower.. which is also not true at all, and would be evident to you if you actually listened to my posts from a place of rationality, just as you would understand that the amount of election irregularities that took place this election are far and away beyond anything that has ever taken place in any election before this one. But rationality has gone out the window, so now it is unfortunately impossible to have those discussions.
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes


Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,942
Last seen: 4 hours, 48 minutes
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 3
#27154002 - 01/17/21 06:23 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: Oh, I certainly have no plans to "hunker down" and not live my life. I'll be out there living it up with the best of them. In-fact, you could even happen to bump into me.. and to you, I would be just a normal person, no different from anyone else.
That said, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with calling out the direction America is now taking. The left is totally sold on this idea that anybody who is opposed to them is a literal Nazi who deserves a bullet between the eyes, which couldn't be further from the truth, but the truth apparently no longer matters since the country has gone completely insane. And that is an extremely dangerous position to take because it can only lead to violence and civil unrest when such insane beliefs become commonly held, as they are now. And we have the mainstream media and their backers, who have deliberately provoked these divisions & false truths in a desperate attempt to get rid of Trump, to thank for this.
There are plenty of things wrong with the right, with Trump, and the movement he created. I have been very critical of all of them. However, at-least they haven't devolved to the point of calling the other half of the country as being "fascists" who deserve nothing less than to be "cleansed" from the country, as the left is now doing.
Also, it's very telling that you immediately refer to me as being a Qanon follower.. which is also not true at all, and would be evident to you if you actually listened to my posts from a place of rationality, just as you would understand that the amount of election irregularities that took place this election are far and away beyond anything that has ever taken place in any election before this one. But rationality has gone out the window, so now it is unfortunately impossible to have those discussions.
Youve been very critical of trump? About what?
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   Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!
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Psicomb


Registered: 01/13/18
Posts: 4,635
Loc: the womb
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 2
#27154022 - 01/17/21 06:39 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Dude no one I know, even my extremely active anarchist/communist friends, are wishing Trump supporters or Republicans death. At worst, people are like disowning their family members for the time being. Big difference. I dunno who you are hearing say this death talk. I guarantee no one in your personal life or who has any real influence in the world.
You should get off twitter for a while or something man, I really am worried about you.
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When we constantly pull things apart trying to see how it works, we may end up with only an understanding of how to destroy something - nick sand
Edited by Psicomb (01/17/21 06:40 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 1
#27154031 - 01/17/21 06:46 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Dude, there was just an attack/riot in the capital. Yes, some of the rhetoric is pretty intense right now; but can you see why? If the situation was reversed, I can almost guaranfuckingT you the response would be tenfold to definitely include some serious bloodshed.
Moreover, we have had to endure the most bombastic executive in modern political times, can you see why the other side is just a little pissed?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 2
#27154191 - 01/17/21 08:23 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Also, it's very telling that you immediately refer to me as being a Qanon follower.. which is also not true at all, and would be evident to you if you actually listened to my posts from a place of rationality, just as you would understand that the amount of election irregularities that took place this election are far and away beyond anything that has ever taken place in any election before this one. But rationality has gone out the window, so now it is unfortunately impossible to have those discussions.
Confirmation bias. Trump convinced his followers he could only lose by fraud before the election had even happened. So many of those people interpreted mundane shit as what they expected to see, fraud. And a shit ton of low quality "evidence" that did not actually prove fraud (to people like judges, appointed by Trump or not) was generated. Leading some people to conclude "Well, there's just so much of this evidence that it must be true that the election was stolen".
If it could be proven that the election was stolen, there would no need for anyone to concern themselves with "possibly illegal ballots" at this point in the game, because there would be enough "definitely illegal ballots" to have altered the outcome. Hypothesizing that some group of ballots might contain some illegal ballots, (though we don't know what proportion and it might even be none) does not help us add even a single vote to the "definitely illegal ballots" category. It's just speculation, not the proof needed.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: psi] 1
#27154251 - 01/17/21 08:54 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Pretty sure the only time the left has called for violence is in response to violent crimes committed by MAGA hats on behalf of Trump.
Otherwise, I'm guessing that's just projection.
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TheStallionMang
Do U know who yur fuckin with?


Registered: 10/18/17
Posts: 4,531
Loc:
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27154267 - 01/17/21 08:58 PM (3 years, 11 days ago) |
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Or maybe in response to cops killing people without any actual threat that would make killing someone reasonable
One group attacked elected officials doing their job according to the constitution because they bought into a lie with ZERO proof offered... and the other group attacked buildings and property out of anger for black people being killed for no reason...
Koods, the idea you're talking about it is psychological priming. Basically, it's when someone gets your mind ready to receive something and it's a lot easier to accept some bullshit after your primed for it
Edited by TheStallionMang (01/17/21 09:02 PM)
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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While the US legal system generally disagrees, I'd argue that if plainclothes cops bust down your door without identifying themselves as police, you have a legitimate castle doctrine argument to shoot first. After all, how are you supposed to know they're cops and not random armed robbers?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
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Must read article relating to this thread:
https://news.yahoo.com/attack-on-us-capitol-was-the-beginning-of-an-american-insurgency-counterterrorism-experts-warn-100000381.html
Counterterrorism officials and experts who have closely examined how violent extremist movements arise out of unstable societies abroad have detected recurring patterns. The movements typically begin with small groups operating independently. Over time, they form connections with other like-minded groups through secret communications. This is a hallmark in the genesis of most terrorist organizations.
As they develop a coherent narrative and unifying ideology, extremist movements and leaders increasingly come out of the shadows and communicate over open forums in an effort to recruit and radicalize a wider following. A prime example is Anwar al-Awlaki, the American-born cleric and leader of al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula, who indoctrinated a whole generation of English-speaking jihadis, and whose sermons still attract tens of thousands of hits on YouTube a decade after his death in a U.S. drone strike in 2011.
Extremist movements also aggressively recruit from law enforcement and military communities to develop their hard power, a common tactic perfected by the Islamic State, whose close alliance with disaffected Baathist military officers enabled it to launch a military-style juggernaut in 2014 that captured a third of Iraq and Syria for its Islamist “caliphate.”
The participation of former military members in the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol was revealed in the past week with the arrest of retired Air Force Lt. Col. Larry Rendall Brock Jr., who was photographed wearing military-style tactical gear and brandishing zip-tie handcuffs inside the Capitol, and by the death of military veteran Ashli Babbitt, who was shot by police during the melee. The U.S. Army is reportedly investigating 25 people who participated in the attempted putsch, some of whom may be active-duty military. Meanwhile, two off-duty Virginia police officers, Jacob Fracker and Thomas Robertson of the Rocky Mount Police Department, were also arrested on charges of illegally storming the Capitol.
Extremist movements commonly reach out to like-minded terrorist groups in other countries, forming loose networks for the sharing of strategies and lessons-learned in a continuous feedback loop. That network building was the hallmark of al-Qaida and its many global affiliates and franchises.
Similarly, counterterrorism experts say a number of the white supremacist groups who took part in the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol have reached out and formed linkages with white nationalist counterparts in Germany, Canada, Norway and Russia. “I worked with the State Department to designate as terrorists an extreme white supremacist group in Russia that has many ties to U.S.-based groups,” said Ali Soufan, a former FBI supervisory special agent and counterterrorism expert who led some of the highest-profile investigations of al-Qaida attacks, speaking on Thursday to reporters. He noted that a National Security Council strategy document identified the Nordic Front, a neo-Nazi group spreading throughout Nordic countries, as a threat to the United States. “If the Nordic Front is a threat to the U.S., that means they have some connection to activities here. There are also [right-wing] extremist groups in Canada designated as terrorist organizations by our ‘Five Eyes’ allies, but they still operate with impunity here in the United States. That has to stop.”
History also shows that when extremist movements coalesce around a charismatic leader who focuses their anger and amplifies their narrative, a tipping point is reached where extreme rhetoric is often turned into violent action. Beyond that tipping point, the violence tends to escalate unless the extremist movement and its leadership are convincingly defeated and their narrative and ideology widely rejected.
Even in the aftermath of Trump’s incitement of a violent insurrection, however, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll showed that a majority of Republicans believe that he bears no responsibility for the ransacking of the Capitol (56 percent); that there is solid evidence of fraud in the November election (66 percent); and that he acted responsibly after the election (65 percent). To this day Trump has refused to concede the election to Joe Biden, and he continues to promote the poisonous falsehood that he won in a “landslide” and that the election was stolen.
What most worries counterterrorism experts is that the collective that mobilized the violent mob responsible for sacking the Capitol last week has checked all those boxes, and fits the pattern that created other enduring violent extremist movements.
“Osama bin Laden’s major contribution to the terrorist pantheon was to create a mythology around the narrative that a band of Arab fighters defeated the Soviet superpower in Afghanistan in the 1980s, and he used that mythology to bring together a lot of disparate terrorist groups from all over the world under the single banner of al-Qaida, giving them cohesion and an organizational structure,” said Brian Michael Jenkins, a senior adviser to the president of the RAND Corporation and author of numerous books, reports and articles on terrorism. “Similarly, the people behind Jan. 6, 2021, mobilized right-wing extremists of every stripe — white supremacists, neo-Nazis, QAnon, anti-Semites, antigovernment militias, xenophobes, anti-feminists — and brought them together as a movement in what amounted to a Woodstock festival for extremists. And now the ‘Battle of Capitol Hill’ has become symbolically important and central to right-wing mythology, and it will lead to more organizing and escalating threats from this movement, which we’re already seeing.”
Indeed, the FBI-led investigation into the sacking of the Capitol has already revealed just how far the extremist movement behind it has evolved. Earlier this week the FBI warned in a memo to law enforcement agencies and departments that armed, far-right extremist groups were planning to march on all 50 state capitols in the coming days. Credible threats to Biden’s inauguration ceremony on Jan. 20 have prompted the National Guard to deploy more soldiers to protect the U.S. Capitol building than are currently deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq combined. Even before the riot last week, the FBI reported having more than 1,000 active domestic terrorism investigations underway in all 50 states, the preponderance of them involving racially motivated, white supremacist terror.
“What the nation witnessed last week was a surgical strike at the heart of our democracy, and it was meant to empower a movement that will lead to the melting of the foundation of our republic,” said Soufan. In congressional testimony nearly two years ago, Soufan warned that the right-wing movement in America was already roughly where jihadi terrorists were in the 1980s and 1990s in terms of its development and increasing sophistication. “The right-wing movement is also taking advantage and feeding off the partisan political divisions in this country. So the first thing we need is a united approach to recognize the threat, and summon the political will needed for law enforcement to dismantle these networks.”
After last week's Capitol Riot the FBI has warned of additional threats against the US Capitol and in all 50 states.
In trying to reduce the social media accelerant to the extremism on display last week, Twitter has taken down no fewer than 70,000 accounts associated with just the QAnon conspiracy mongers, one node in the extremist movement’s growing network. The social media company has also permanently suspended Trump’s account, depriving the president of his favored communication channel with more than 88 million followers.
“Whether you believe President Trump intended to or not, the message that he has consistently communicated to these extremist groups has been a ‘green light,’” said Bruce Hoffman, a senior fellow for counterterrorism and homeland security at the Council on Foreign Relations. That’s how torch-bearing neo-Nazis and white supremacists interpreted Trump’s comment that there were “very fine people on both sides” of their 2017 protest in Charlottesville, Va., he noted, and how the Proud Boys white nationalist militia heard his call to “stand back and stand by” during a presidential debate.
“The entire movement read Trump’s tweet — ‘Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!’ — as another green light, which Trump flashed again on the Ellipse when he told the crowd of supporters that ‘if you don’t fight like hell you’re not going to have a country anymore,’” said Hoffman. “With these constant green lights, Trump has unleashed very powerful forces that he nor anyone else can control. In that sense, what happened in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6 was a beginning, not an end. In the minds of Trump’s hard-core supporters it was the beginning of a revolution.”
McChrystal has thought long and hard about what happens to this extremist movement when its leader exits center stage, and for the near and middle term he sees the potential for great peril to the country. “As this extremist movement comes under increasing pressure from law enforcement in the coming days and weeks, its members will likely retreat into tighter and tighter cells for security, and that will make them more professional, and those cells will become echo chambers that incubate even more radical thinking along the lines of armed insurrection,” he said. “So even if Trump exits the scene, the radical movement he helped create has its own momentum and cohesion now, and they may find they don’t need Trump anymore. They can just wait for another charismatic leader to appear. So the fabric of something very dangerous has been woven, and it’s further along than most Americans care to admit.”
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/17/21 09:18 PM)
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: chopstick] 5
#27154395 - 01/17/21 10:38 PM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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chopstick said: Oh, I certainly have no plans to "hunker down" and not live my life. I'll be out there living it up with the best of them. In-fact, you could even happen to bump into me.. and to you, I would be just a normal person, no different from anyone else.
I mean, that's definitely how I see it. We're all in this together and all that. You're the one shoving everyone who disagrees with your worldview into this vague box you call "the left".
Quote:
chopstick said: The left is totally sold on this idea that anybody who is opposed to them is a literal Nazi who deserves a bullet between the eyes
That's all in your imagination.
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chopstick said: but the truth apparently no longer matters since the country has gone completely insane.
Take a serious look at this sentence and consider the implications. You are committing yourself to the idea that just about everyone who disagrees with you is "completely insane," thus alienating yourself from others. This whole "everyone is crazy except for me and all the people who believe in the same things that I do" mentality you've adopted? It's not a good look. This is the type of language used by people who are in cults. Wake up, chopstick. Can't you see we're trying to help you come back to reality?
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chopstick said: However, at-least they haven't devolved to the point of calling the other half of the country as being "fascists" who deserve nothing less than to be "cleansed" from the country, as the left is now doing.
Yeah, at least you guys haven't devolved to the point of calling half of the country fascists. I don't think that half of the country is fascist, either, so you and I are actually on the same page about that. I do, however, think that there are fascists in America and that, even though they make up a minority of the population, they are still a threat to our collective well-being that needs to be addressed. Would you agree with that?
Quote:
chopstick said: Also, it's very telling that you immediately refer to me as being a Qanon follower..
If you don't want to be called a QAnon follower, I would advise that you stop repeating the same talking points that other QAnon followers repeat (like that the election was stolen, for example).
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Psicomb] 1
#27154396 - 01/17/21 10:40 PM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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Psicomvb said: At worst, people are like disowning their family members for the time being.
The more I get exposed to Trumpism, the more it starts to look like a cult.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Cyans
mfmulcher



Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Pacific North West
Last seen: 2 years, 20 days
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: ballsalsa]
#27154397 - 01/17/21 10:42 PM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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If biden brings back better the guano islands act I would go buy a 100k sailboat right now and he would win me over in a heartbeat lol
-------------------- reporting and trading from the PNW.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: SirTripAlot]
#27154420 - 01/17/21 11:06 PM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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Damn, SirTrips, thanks for writing all of that out.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: If you don't want to be called a QAnon follower, I would advise that you stop repeating the same talking points that other QAnon followers repeat (like that the election was stolen, for example).
This is a really bad argument. It's like saying since Putin is against American empire, if you're against American empire, then you must be a Putin lover. Koods used to do this to me all the time.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Cyans
mfmulcher



Registered: 02/17/12
Posts: 92
Loc: Pacific North West
Last seen: 2 years, 20 days
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hey.. checking back in...soo they are calling the area around the capitol the green zone now...? thats a thing? just like in iraq. despite the media it sure looked like some people that got riled up and probably wish they never went in there. these are not just insurgents.. these people prepare your food, grow your vegetables , and even pump the shit from your septic tank and i hope they dont mix all that up. I propose we work on a reconciliation processes. it starts this spring.. are you ready?
-------------------- reporting and trading from the PNW.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 28 minutes
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Cyans] 5
#27154525 - 01/18/21 01:06 AM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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Reconciliation begins with a complete concession, and admission that the fraudulent election claims were lies. The people who incited and participated in the attack are punished. Donald Trump is convicted and cannot hold public office again. Until then, no forgiveness and no mercy. Time to put an end to this bullshit.
Democrats need to bend every rule and take every advatage to make sure the Republican Party never holds power again.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (01/18/21 01:09 AM)
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,767
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Quote:
I think a LOT of the people who stormed the capital were on drugs and/or drug addicts.

Only if you class Budweiser as a drug.
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OutsideOfMyMind
LSD Self Administrative Director



Registered: 10/05/20
Posts: 5,383
Last seen: 2 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Trump acolytes storm the Capitol [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27154576 - 01/18/21 02:08 AM (3 years, 10 days ago) |
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Honestly the whole Capitol "coup" would have been way better if it wasn't all just Trump supporters and if it had nothing to do with the elections. Like if the masses ACTUALLY OVERTHREW our government, that would actually be really cool. Now the government is scared. Good. They needed to suffer a little bit. And a couple cops are dead. That ought to show em! If it happens again it better not be a pussy ass half ass coup.
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