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MycoBrainz
Mycotic



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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27133202 - 01/07/21 03:14 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Another 4 years of making the rich richer and keeping the poor, poor. Go make some more buddy buddy deals you politician scumbags.
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PFC x Creeper Lets Get Stoned
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27133209 - 01/07/21 03:17 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Exactly. That's why we can't start with M4A out of the gate. Obama did that with Obamacare, and it didn't go great.
Right now, democrats need to start small, and treat it as if it's a final boss. Play up the theatrics on stimulus checks before passing them (which is all but guaranteed due to GA runoff messaging). Then Covid response. Then vaccinations. Then foreign policy. After a series of small "final boss" wins, which we will know based on the 2022 elections, does M4A go on the table. Heck, even losing a chamber of congress wouldn't totally torpedo M4A. If anything, losing a chamber of congress allows democrats to essentially talk about M4A for free while being blocked by republicans, which will do what Bernie did even though he lost: make it more popular and rally support.
Then depending on 2024 and 2028, does M4A become feasible.
It does suck that a lot of people will die needlessly along the way, but that's politics.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: MycoBrainz]
#27133214 - 01/07/21 03:20 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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They aren't going to transform capitalism or anything, but Marty Walsh as Labor Secretary could lead to gains for working people.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Brian Jones]
#27133223 - 01/07/21 03:27 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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@kryptos
The Dems will be slightly better than their opponents, but if this strategy worked we’d have had a democratic supermajority since 1932.
Dems need to show people that they’re willing to take on the groups that are making Americans’ lives hell, and they refuse to do that. That’s why they’ll lose the House and Senate in two years.
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Lynnch
Strangerer



Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 7,855
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27133241 - 01/07/21 03:35 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Instead of being cynical and defeatist, could we maybe say "In two years we'll expand the Dem majority in both houses, entirely with left/progressives" Isn't that also possible?
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Kryptos
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27133260 - 01/07/21 03:42 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: @kryptos
The Dems will be slightly better than their opponents, but if this strategy worked we’d have had a democratic supermajority since 1932.
Dems need to show people that they’re willing to take on the groups that are making Americans’ lives hell, and they refuse to do that. That’s why they’ll lose the House and Senate in two years.
They did, for a long time. Then republicans adjusted by seizing control of the media, and therefore, messaging. Right now, republicans still have that advantage, though Trump has frayed it quite a bit.
Clinton showed that bipartisanship doesn't work. Obama showed that big ideas aren't enough to destroy that advantage with Obamacare. Democrats need to do some rebuilding.
Right now, democrats have a great opportunity to dismantle Fox News, especially since MAGAs are attacking Fox News as well. If the biggest right wing propaganda machine in the world goes down, then leftist policies have a much better shot. For this to occur, they need to make Fox news look foolish with consistent small successes, knowing that Carlson and Hannity will lose their shit regardless.
EDIT: To be more specific: the literal job description of talking faces like Hannity and Carlson is to say whatever democrats are doing is bad and will destroy America. This puts them into a precarious situation, because if democrats give everyone $2k and a free puppy, both Hannity and Carlson have to wake up the next day, go to work, and spend an hour or whatever each screaming about how that money is bad for their listeners and the puppies are, like, death puppies or whatever. Because that's what they're paid to do.
For something complex, like M4A, they can easily find some kind of soundbite. Like Obamacare death panels. If democrats start doing simple things that are immediately and obviously beneficial, Hannity and Carlson start looking more and more ridiculous. This is how you destroy the right wing propaganda machine. Once you've achieved that, accomplishing complex things becomes much easier.
Edited by Kryptos (01/07/21 04:04 PM)
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Lynnch]
#27133340 - 01/07/21 04:12 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lynnch said: Instead of being cynical and defeatist, could we maybe say "In two years we'll expand the Dem majority in both houses, entirely with left/progressives" Isn't that also possible? 
It is, but the moderates that the Democrats explicitly gear their agenda towards will flip back to the GOP when the Dems fail to accomplish anything meaningful. I’d love for them to do something meaningful, and be wrong, but not likely. Progressives are winning the argument but they don’t have enough power to take over the party. In fact they’re being deliberately undermined by the party. The bubble will burst from the trillions that Trump is pumping into the economy, we’ll enter a recession, the GOP will say Biden’s big government ideas wrecked the economy, and that’ll be that.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27133348 - 01/07/21 04:15 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: @kryptos
The Dems will be slightly better than their opponents, but if this strategy worked we’d have had a democratic supermajority since 1932.
Dems need to show people that they’re willing to take on the groups that are making Americans’ lives hell, and they refuse to do that. That’s why they’ll lose the House and Senate in two years.
They did, for a long time. Then republicans adjusted by seizing control of the media, and therefore, messaging. Right now, republicans still have that advantage, though Trump has frayed it quite a bit.
Clinton showed that bipartisanship doesn't work. Obama showed that big ideas aren't enough to destroy that advantage with Obamacare. Democrats need to do some rebuilding.
Right now, democrats have a great opportunity to dismantle Fox News, especially since MAGAs are attacking Fox News as well. If the biggest right wing propaganda machine in the world goes down, then leftist policies have a much better shot. For this to occur, they need to make Fox news look foolish with consistent small successes, knowing that Carlson and Hannity will lose their shit regardless.
EDIT: To be more specific: the literal job description of talking faces like Hannity and Carlson is to say whatever democrats are doing is bad and will destroy America. This puts them into a precarious situation, because if democrats give everyone $2k and a free puppy, both Hannity and Carlson have to wake up the next day, go to work, and spend an hour or whatever each screaming about how that money is bad for their listeners and the puppies are, like, death puppies or whatever. Because that's what they're paid to do.
For something complex, like M4A, they can easily find some kind of soundbite. Like Obamacare death panels. If democrats start doing simple things that are immediately and obviously beneficial, Hannity and Carlson start looking more and more ridiculous. This is how you destroy the right wing propaganda machine. Once you've achieved that, accomplishing complex things becomes much easier.
I agree that the Dems need to attack the right where it counts, specifically in the media sphere. Unfortunately, they’ve spent 4 years giving the GOP a pass and instead placing all the blame on Trump (who’s gonna be gone in two weeks).
Things like PR/DC statehood would be a tremendous boon to securing Democratic Party power for decades to come, but they simply won’t do it. Why? Because the people who control the Democratic Party don’t want progress, they want gridlock, because the status quo benefits them.
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Kryptos
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27133361 - 01/07/21 04:25 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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PR and DC statehood would be a good idea, and I do, unfortunately, think you're right.
Democrats as a whole need to get better at soundbites. "Wealth tax" doesn't fly, because everyone thinks they're average. The dude with $100 total assets thinks his "wealth" will be taxed.
On the other hand, "Millionaire tax" would play better. People who are millionaires know they are millionaires, and people that are not millionaires know they are not millionaires. $400k tax has too many syllables and too many moving parts.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Kryptos] 1
#27133382 - 01/07/21 04:36 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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One of the things progressives could do better is illustrate just how enormous the wealth disparity is. It’s nice that Bernie can rattle off numbers and percentages but that doesn’t really reach people like it should.
But yeah messaging all around can be improved. Even thought I think he’s a little corporate weasel, Jon Ossof did a good job with his messaging during the senate run. Dems too often get sucked into the GOP narrative and shoot themselves in the foot by constantly playing defense and backpedaling.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27133415 - 01/07/21 04:49 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah, numbers don't work. For most americans, considering the state of US education, as soon as they hear a number their eyes glaze over and they're back sleeping through high school algebra.
It's kind of hard to demonstrate wealth disparity, though there have been good graphical representations coming out of various internet holes. Sadly, those also don't work as soundbites.
That's why nebulous terms like "wealth tax" need to be avoided at all costs. That's also why big things like M4A can't be the first out of the gate. It almost immediately puts democrats on the defensive from right wing media.
Though, I gotta say, "Medicare for all" is a pretty great soundbite in and of itself, considering that Medicare is the most popular government program in the US.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Kryptos]
#27133507 - 01/07/21 05:33 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah it was smart of Bernie to switch to that terminology and ditch “single payer.” Medicare is something that already exists and people like, therefore it’s not a huge change (even though it is). Single payer makes it sound like MY taxes are going up to benefit someone else.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27133514 - 01/07/21 05:37 PM (3 years, 21 days ago) |
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It also took the wind out of the GOP attack line of "democrats are coming for your medicare".
I don;t know if M4A was focus tested or luck, but we need more of that.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: Kryptos]
#27134110 - 01/07/21 09:15 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (01/07/21 09:18 PM)
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27134242 - 01/07/21 11:08 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
One of the things progressives could do better is illustrate just how enormous the wealth disparity is.
Why don't people have the fucking balls to be honest and admit they oppose capitalism?
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#27134274 - 01/07/21 11:47 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
One of the things progressives could do better is illustrate just how enormous the wealth disparity is.
Why don't people have the fucking balls to be honest and admit they oppose capitalism?
I vehemently oppose capitalism, but you better keep my testicles out of this!
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
Edited by Nonagon Infinity (01/07/21 11:47 PM)
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Where are the posts about TDS now?
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#27134625 - 01/08/21 07:21 AM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
One of the things progressives could do better is illustrate just how enormous the wealth disparity is.
Why don't people have the fucking balls to be honest and admit they oppose capitalism?
The CIA will kill them
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27134944 - 01/08/21 11:07 AM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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You admit you oppose capitalism though, right?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Democrats win control of US Senate [Re: psi]
#27135150 - 01/08/21 12:17 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
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Thought that was obvious by now, my previous comment clearly made in jest
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