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InvisiblePenroc3
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relapse and recovery
    #27127538 - 01/05/21 05:08 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

recently i meet a bar contact and wheil my DOC isnt benzos per say but benzos are in my top 3 drgus the other two being coke and dope.

I have been clean for years from the coke and dope and am im a methadone clinic

all that being said what is your out look on relapse and recovery?

I deleted all their contact info and blocked them and what not, I hate to ghost people but they were to easy to get and way to cheep.

i personally am looking at it as a bump in the road, no one told me to stop or pulled me aside so it didn't get bad THIS time.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27127541 - 01/05/21 05:17 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Do what you have to do to not take that shit..


--------------------
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OfflineLeeHarvOz
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #27127579 - 01/05/21 06:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

shit goes down hill for me fast as soon as i get a bunch of bars.


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Invisiblemetalfaith
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #27127618 - 01/05/21 06:39 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LeeHarvOz said:
shit goes down hill for me fast as soon as i get a bunch of bars.



I was going to say this, but I guess if he doesn't have anyone contact info that's a pretty big speed bump.. but we all know how to score drugs.

OP, this is how overdoses happen. Literally exactly like this.

Please flush that shit. You know you need to, that's why you made this thread.


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Offlineanatomality
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: metalfaith] * 1
    #27127627 - 01/05/21 06:45 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Well, why do you want to do these drugs? Do you honestly want to do them?
Why did you stop? Do you want to stay clean? What will you get out of it?
Do you deserve this? All good questions man, only you know the reasons and whys.

What are you trying to accomplish? This is your life, and you are free to lead it however way you choose.
I mean, freedom is terrifying.
Don't hurt yourself is a good place to start, but like I said, it's totally up to you, never forget that.


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“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: anatomality]
    #27127663 - 01/05/21 07:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Flush em dude. Once you have had a couple all bets are off

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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: morrowasted]
    #27127698 - 01/05/21 08:10 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

those are long gone.

i like benzos because everyday now seems like someone just hits re-start

Im kind of high strung as it is

its nice having zero fucks given.

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27127715 - 01/05/21 08:21 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Long gone as in you ate them all or as in you flushed them? That looks like 52mg of xanax. Your post makes it seem like you took them. Please tell me you did not take 52mg of xanax

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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: morrowasted]
    #27127726 - 01/05/21 08:30 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

lol no

thats about a weeks worth.

and that was 2 weeks ago.

i feel like for me a real relapse would be using a needle or doing dope/coke

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27127732 - 01/05/21 08:35 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Oh i assumed you had just gotten them right before you made the thread for some reason. I am frankly impressed you were able to avoid doing so

Taking that much xanax on a binge just seems like a recipe for jail and or serious panic attacks on the rebound


But you do you bro

Hope you got some people in your life that care

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InvisiblePenroc3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: morrowasted]
    #27127756 - 01/05/21 08:50 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

yeah i have a good program and a good family

i was just curious about what peoples thought about what is a slip and what is a full on relapse of if there is a difference


i had a wicked dope habit and never stole anything from anyone or did and really sketchy shit and have very few ghosts from that life dont linger anymore.

most of my friends died way to young.

abstinence is just another word for failure to correctly comprehend a situation

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27127779 - 01/05/21 09:05 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Within the context of using language to describe psychology, each person is entitled to use whatever semantics work best for them.

As a former addict I found the fact that they made a big deal out of it when you use again to be counterproductive. Its like you lose all your social credit and take a major blow to your confidence.


The way i think about it is just if I used, I used. I know I shouldnt, so when I do acknowledge that I shouldnt keep on doing it. I dont ruminate over whether my use constituted a relapse or a slip. I just think of it like a mistake and learn from it as much as possible. This has been way more effective for me. I spent a long time being totally sober and doing jack shit with my life about being miserable as fuck. I "make mistakes" sometimes these days but my life is infinitely better than it was when I was in a mode of feeling shame everytime I did so

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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27128071 - 01/05/21 11:58 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

You shouldn’t need to be on methadone still if you’ve been off the dope for years as you state.

I think you need to be honest with yourself about why you’re still on the methadone.
Either you’re looking to get “high” with a more socially acceptable and medically supervised drug or you think you’ll relapse if you quit.
In either scenario you and I both know getting on the bars will lead you back to dope, quickly.

Methadone shouldn’t be needed any longer than 3-6 months if you’re actually truly trying to get clean.
Methadone just holds you in a state of suspended junkiedom, you’re not using but you’re still an addict.
You aren’t clean until you’re off the Methadone.

Now add Xanax into that mix and not only are you playing with 2 CNS depressants and increasing your chance of concerning or fatal respiratory suppression but you’re also leading yourself back down the road of addiction.

Stay away from the Xanax and taper off the methadone OP.

Unless youre looking forward to relapsing that is..


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Zombi3]
    #27128099 - 01/05/21 12:12 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Methadone just holds you in a state of suspended junkiedom,
Methadone shouldn’t be needed any longer than 3-6 months if you’re actually truly trying to get clean.




No offense dude but you're in a state of nonsuspended junkiedom from what I can tell, with no apparent interest in "getting clean" either


I used to have your attitude, that users who get on sub or methadone maintenance just wanna keep getting high without all of the rigamarole of obtaining black market drugs.

Now my attitude is, so what if they do? If they tell me that's how they choose to live, whatever. I wouldn't want to be dependent on subs forever, but I'm not going to sit and judge anyone who decides to make that decision for themselves.

I know multiple people with long term suboxone dependencies that a) don't ever seem to be high to anywhere near the extent that heroin addicts get high and b) have basically normal lives. wives, children, decent jobs, a reasonable level of interest in doing the kind of stuff "normal" people do like socializing, exercising, and playing sports, and stuff in their apartments rather than at the pawn shop, etc. I don't know anyone with a heroin dependency that has an even remotely normal life. There may be some rare folks out there in early heroin addiction, or some celebrities with a whole team of enablers and an endless cash supply for whom things seem to be going alright, but choosing to keep using heroin rather than getting on suboxone is, in my mind, choosing to give up on participating in life at all- it's choosing to kill your SELF and behind a body that is operated exclusively by the midbrain like a parasitic demon sitting in the cockpit of mech warrior. Sub users may be "suspended junkies", but junkies inevitably become "suspended lives".

I'm starting to really really understand the extent to which addiction is a brain disease. It could be that, as with schizophrenia, there are some people in whom the disease pathology is so severe that the best way to optimize functionality and reduce harm is for those people to be on lifelong drug therapy. I don't like the idea of people NEEDING to be dependent on pills to function in this society, but I think some people do, and it's time we throw away the set of assumptions we have about which kinds of lifelong drug dependencies used to treat brain diseases are worthy of judgment and which are not.

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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: morrowasted]
    #27128105 - 01/05/21 12:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Ok doctor thank you. I stand by what I said.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Zombi3]
    #27128149 - 01/05/21 12:33 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

The guy already stated he used all the xanax and didn't cop any dope.

I, like you, suspect that if he keeps it up, he'll inevitably go back to it.

But mostly I find it baffling that someone who seems extremely unabashed discussing his heroin addiction, seems to be putting down those who choose a methadone or suboxone dependency.

"You're not clean if you're doing XYZ". It's the same pompous, holier than thou exclusivity you hear in 12 step meetings- if you smoke weed you're not sober, if you take subs you're not clean, etc.

Ironically, a big principle you hear being discussed is, "Take your own inventory". That means you focusing on your own problems and finding solutions to them. Just because you find a solution to your problem doesn't license you to judge anyone who claims they resolved a similar problem in a way that satisfied them using a different method.

It's like the people who lose weight on a fad diet, say carnivore, and their holier than thou attitude over other diets: "How dare other people lose weight and get healthy without totally giving up 90% of the food that tastes good in this world? I'm better than stronger than they are for never never ever eating bread so my weight loss counts for more than their weight loss even though they seem to be just as happy with their results as I am with mine." I personally lost weight and kept it off for 6 years while eating fuckloads of carbs, and I know people who have gotten onto suboxone and stayed away from heroin for years. I know a shroomerite actually whose life I helped save when at his 21st birthday party following a heroin overdose who has now been on methadone for 9 years and, as I described, leads a reasonably productive, normal, and happy life.  because you personally used methadone as a temporary crutch between your bouts of heroin use doesn't mean everyone does.

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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #27128359 - 01/05/21 01:55 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I meant what I said as advice coming from someone who’s been in the same scenario.
I wasn’t in any way trying to put OP down for his choices.

Methadone still elicits many side effects that over a long period of time are hard on the body.
Due to prolonged QT intervals it can cause heart murmurs among other potentially serious side effects when taken for prolonged periods.

You can get clean off dope and detox using Methadone in as little as a month. Every Methadone clinic I’ve ever been too have maintained that it’s not beneficial to take methadone longer than 6 months. It has all the same damaging effects on the body as other opioids.

I completely hear what you’re saying morrow; but I don’t personally believe it’s safe to be on Methadone for 9 fucking years. What kind of help is that? Keeping someone addicted for that long. While I agree that Methadone addiction is far easier to assimilate into a normal productive lifestyle than heroin is, I still don’t feel that’s the best course of action.

How can you possibly not address the root of your addiction over a course of up to 9 years?

Perhaps it’s just my body chemistry but hey man I’m infinitely happier and feeling so much healthier since tapering off methadone. I couldn’t even imagine the toll a 9 year addiction to methadone would have on your body and psyche.

Opioids are something you need to remove from your life entirely. Methadone is a godsend it will help you get clean. But you need to be honest with yourself when it’s time to get off it it’s time to get off.

If you’re so hopelessly addicted to opiates and have such low self control then I agree remaining on methadone for the rest of your life is preferable to using heroin or whatever. But it’s not without its consequences.

And for the record the experiences I’ve been discussing are past experiences. I was a heroin addict.
I took methadone for over a year, and then I relapsed for a few weeks cuz I was terrified about the surgery I had in December. But I’ve cleaned up completely now and removed myself from the scene.

Of course you won’t see an insignificant single month of sobriety as a victory but you can’t just start at a year clean can you? It’s a day by day process and it needs to start eventually. Such is the exact purpose of methadone therapy. To get you clean not to replace another addiction.

The only reason I ended up relapsing is because the methadone kept me in the culture. I saw other addicts when I would go urine test, I saw other addicts when I filled my script.. Every week I would run into a dealer or at very least I would know where they were hanging out because the patients at the methadone clinic talked. Even tho I had deleted my dealers numbers I knew i was never more than a short convo away from some dope if I wanted it. If I had been honest with myself and tapered off the methadone after 6 months when I felt like I was in control then I could have spent the next 6 months enjoying sobriety and I honestly don’t think I would have relapsed. But I kept on taking the methadone because I enjoy depressants, that mind set right there is why I relapsed, I was enjoying my methadone intake. This in turn leads to the thought that “hey if I can enjoy one daily dose of methadone without relapsing I can prolly get away with one hit of heroin right?”
As long as you’re on methadone you end up self identifying as a recovering addict, just recover and call yourself an ex addict. Or you know, celebrate being clean! It’s the best feeling you can make.

I was ready to give up the methadone within 6 months but didn’t because I wasn’t ready to give up being an opioid user because I had lost all my self worth and didn’t know who I was anymore. Methadone was my identity. I was a Methadone user. My doctor kept on telling me to taper because Methadone addiction can end up consuming your identity more than heroin since it’s socially accepted and you need not hide it, everyone praises you for “getting clean” but you know deep down this addiction is no better than the last.

I hear what you’re saying and I was just trying to offer OP what I still think is sound advice. Sorry you took it as judgmental.

Between the two of us and our posts I think OP can choose his own course of action.
Stay addicted to the methadone, or taper off and see how much better your biological processes function and get your identity back. It makes no difference to me how long one chooses to remain on methadone, but I know from my personal experiences and those of many friends around me that it’s almost never more beneficial to remain on methadone longer than a 6-10 months than it is to be blatantly honest with yourself and get off of it and back to a normal functioning level, not just a relatively functional level.

Such is my experience.

I don’t have any personal experience with Suboxone to say anything about that.


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OnlinetheRealrollforever
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Zombi3]
    #27128389 - 01/05/21 02:08 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

:notyou:


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The order has to be secret and no one is sure.

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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Zombi3] * 2
    #27128406 - 01/05/21 02:15 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:



Opioids are something you need to remove from your life entirely. Methadone is a godsend it will help you get clean. But you need to be honest with yourself when it’s time to get off it it’s time to get off.

If you’re so hopelessly addicted to opiates and have such low self control then I agree remaining on methadone for the rest of your life is preferable to using heroin or whatever. But it’s not without its consequences



opioids are something that nearly every addict SHOULD remove from their life entirely.

People who are 200lbs overweight SHOULD lose 200lbs. But when they lose 50lbs I still congratulate them for making strides.

I know that chronic methadone and sub use has negative effects. And i agree that for those who can pull it off, tapering is better than chronic maintenance. If you cant pull it off after repeated attempts I would say chronic maintensnce is better than active heroin addiction.

I think we are pretty much on the same page. Sorry i assumed you were still using.

All I am really trying to say is at the end of the day OP needs to learn to listen to his gut and just be honest with himself. Sooner or later we all find ourselves in a situation with nobody but ourselves to rely on, and if we have habituated ourselves to depending on others to hear the truth about our behavior, we are in trouble

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Re: relapse and recovery [Re: Penroc3]
    #27128577 - 01/05/21 03:39 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Penroc3 said:

i was just curious about what peoples thought about what is a slip and what is a full on relapse of if there is a difference




Special language like "slip" or "relapse" obsures the fact you always make a choice to use. Instead of saying, for example, "I relapsed last week" just state what happened, "I decided to use last week." The moment we label a decision as a "slip" or "relapse" we surrender our power.

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