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Invisible404
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Bags pop during cool down
    #27126940 - 01/04/21 07:30 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I have a 16qt and just pulled a 23qt shell out of storage and used that after retiring the 16 from buldging.

The bags are popping during cool down. Have been folding them accordion style, and they’re bursting.

How do i make this stop?

Do i fold a different way?

.2 micron spawn bags.

I havent opened the pc yet but i heard sounds tonight that i didn’t want to hear, so i’m sure i’m going to find what i’ve been finding.

Have had some bags make it out OK, but i have some burst almost every time i do grain runs.
I hear with american autoclaves this is less of an issue.


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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27126952 - 01/04/21 07:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I run mine folded with Tyvek in the accordion fold & a plate on top.
:shrug:

Are you presealing ?


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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking]
    #27126958 - 01/04/21 07:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

you really need to watch your heat and pressure changes, when its time to cool down do so very slowly dont just shut the heat off


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: cronicr]
    #27126982 - 01/04/21 07:49 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

No presealing. I have tyvek sleeves now, i will try again tomorrow with the sleeves - assuming i can fit a bag in there. They seem small.


Cron - i’m not sure what you mean. My gauge never goes above 15, it usually sits just below and the rocker stays steady, and it cools at a steady pace. I don’t know what i am missing




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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27126987 - 01/04/21 07:52 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I run 4 in my 23 qt 5 full quarts hydrated in each.
Try to eliminate dead space.. Stuff it full.


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking]
    #27126995 - 01/04/21 07:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Just curious, how long do you cook that for? And how do you personally eliminate dead space, or is that space pretty much taken up by the grain bags? Anything you can tell me about spacers or how you keep the bags from ballooning up and blocking valves?


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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404] * 1
    #27127017 - 01/04/21 08:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I use unicorn 3T bags. I use 4 jar lids to raise the turrett up some.
3 quarts water
4 bags with with 5 fully hydrated quarts grain each stuffs it to the brim. The heavy plate on top keeps bags from expanding & blocking vents.
I run 4 hrs with a quarter on my weight to bring me to 17-18 PSI as my elevation is a factor.
I simply turn off the P/C when done as the tyvek allows them to breath during cool down & I have never burst a bag using this method.
Pre sealing is different like Cron pointed out. Ya have to cool er down slow then


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Edited by Buddaking (01/04/21 08:07 PM)


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking]
    #27127024 - 01/04/21 08:10 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

OK. If i get one of these:



Will i still have an issue with bags ballooning up and popping during cooldown, if i don’t change any other factors? Or is the issue still going to be there





>> heavy plate

Like a dinner plate? I had two on top.
Or a bench press plate?


>> presealing

I did not preseal any of the bags, not sure where you read i did.


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking] * 1
    #27127037 - 01/04/21 08:22 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I use the 3T bags presealed (folded around the grain filter out) - In a presto, I used wadded up aluminum foil under the trivet to get about a 1" gap from the bottom with 3qts of water as well.  The bags can't pop if you don't give them enough room to expand that far, so just pack it mostly full.  I use an old dinner plate on top of them to keep the plastic from blocking the gauge or safety release. 

Unless your kitchen is really cold or you are cooling it/releasing pressure manually, you shouldn't have to worry about it cooling too fast.  Normally it takes 20-30 minutes.

This thread is specifically targetted at presealed users, but alot of the bag pop prevention stuff would apply:

Pre-sealing bags before PC'ing ~ whats the best practice?


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: cronicr]
    #27127040 - 01/04/21 08:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
you really need to watch your heat and pressure changes, when its time to cool down do so very slowly dont just shut the heat off




I have a dial and electric stove. For cooking jars, i set to 9 and once the pressure is at 15 drop it to 6. When ready to cool, i just turn it off.

For BAGS, i set to 7, then down to 6. And yep, this time i just turned it off. So, how would i slowly drop the temps then? Should i turn the dial down from 7-6-5-4-3-2-x in 30 minute intervals maybe? I don’t know how much psi i should be dropping at a rate of time.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27127041 - 01/04/21 08:24 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I never understand why people have such issues with popped bags. I run 6x 4qt bags in
my presto 23qt and never pop bags. I just did a run of over 50 bags and didnt lose a single one.

All accordion folded, no tyvek sleeve, unsealed, .2 micron filters

Maybe I'll do a thread on how I do bags in a presto cause I always see people talkin about popped bags and other issues.


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InvisibleBuddaking
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404] * 1
    #27127043 - 01/04/21 08:25 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Yes a dinner plate or 3 or however many needed to fill the void to the top.

I can run 2 or 3 in this little guy using the same theory.




The same principles would apply & that beautiful investment would not solve your problem unless you change how ya approach the root problem.

I got some grain soaking & will be running tomorrow. I will post up a couple pics as I go for ya man :super:


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Edited by Buddaking (01/04/21 08:26 PM)


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking]
    #27127067 - 01/04/21 08:37 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Okay, so my bags i guess aren’t actually popped open like they had been in the past? Not sure what i heard.
Maybe the dinner plates, as they had slumped to the side with the top two bags ballooning up. (See above, minus dinner plates)

These are my bags. When they popped before, grain spilled out. I have also had bags get ‘hernias’ where they buldge in areas of weakened plastic. Usually i hear really funny sounds when the cooker is building heat, and has happened when i was still cranking it to 9 like i did the jars because i didn’t know better.


These are the bags. The first two in the flowhood space are the too two. The second two by the stove are the bottom ones, and to me, look the best. They had most of the weight so did not expand much. I will try to fill more space in next time.




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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: Buddaking]
    #27127098 - 01/04/21 08:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Buddaking said:
Yes a dinner plate or 3 or however many needed to fill the void to the top.

I can run 2 or 3 in this little guy using the same theory.




The same principles would apply & that beautiful investment would not solve your problem unless you change how ya approach the root problem.

I got some grain soaking & will be running tomorrow. I will post up a couple pics as I go for ya man :super:




Thanks man, i appreciate that and will look for the post tomorrow.


In the mean time, how does look? I have 7 quart jars for my intended masters, with two double quart filled bags at the top, plates on top of that. Will be filling the sides down with the mini towelettes.



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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27129089 - 01/05/21 07:06 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Update: i added more cloth the the sides and stuffed it in the negative space, as suggested. This has eliminated any popping of bags. No more spilled grain in the cooker, no more herniated bags / weakened plastic. Thanks all.


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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27639047 - 01/30/22 09:34 PM (2 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Update: i added more cloth the the sides and stuffed it in the negative space, as suggested. This has eliminated any popping of bags. No more spilled grain in the cooker, no more herniated bags / weakened plastic. Thanks all.




Could you please elaborate??


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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: CHARLYRSA] * 1
    #27639274 - 01/31/22 06:34 AM (2 years, 16 days ago)

404s last post was from a year ago, so you probably won't get a response from them.

His problems were from leaving too much space in the PC so the bags could expand enough to pop.  If you pack them in, there's no room to expand so they don't.  Depending on your PC, if you heat it too quickly, the bottom or outer edges can get much hotter than the liquid or contents inside.  The cloth gave him a little buffer from the PC walls being so hot.


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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: PBJ710]
    #27642693 - 02/02/22 04:31 PM (2 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
404s last post was from a year ago, so you probably won't get a response from them.

His problems were from leaving too much space in the PC so the bags could expand enough to pop.  If you pack them in, there's no room to expand so they don't.  Depending on your PC, if you heat it too quickly, the bottom or outer edges can get much hotter than the liquid or contents inside.  The cloth gave him a little buffer from the PC walls being so hot.



Thank you.


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Invisible404
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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: CHARLYRSA]
    #27669909 - 02/22/22 11:16 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I ended up putting all the bags carefully in a pillowcase and tying a knot to prevent unwanted expansion. This was the last final thing that helped me cook the grain and not pop any bags.


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Re: Bags pop during cool down [Re: 404]
    #27669914 - 02/22/22 11:34 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

I pre seal and they don't pop. It's the gas inside of that bag that expands, as the PC cools down (higher heat inside bag, than outside, so it expands). It depends on how fast the PC cools down. I run inside an AA 925 there isn't any trouble, probably because all that aluminum needs some time to cool down.


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