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Tucky
Smart ass.


Registered: 12/13/20
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Ego death and anxiety
#27126167 - 01/04/21 01:19 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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As I read trip reports it seems that there is some anxiety associated with experiencing ego death. It could be from realizing that you no longer exist or letting go and allowing the trip to happen or whatever reason people may have to feel anxiety or fear. My question is should there be fear involved? I experienced ego death a few days ago and really the only difficulty I had was “coming back to my body”. I had no sense of me or any memory of anything to do with me. It was as if I was just out there and at the same time I experienced the trials and suffering of people all around the world. But there was nothing to resist or to fight against as I went through the death of my ego, the entire experience felt natural. It was not like I was given any choice, it just happened. Is this normal?
-------------------- Fuck the government...with a cactus
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feevers


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky]
#27126199 - 01/04/21 01:38 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Drunken Lullabies1 said: My question is should there be fear involved?
Trips are a unique experience for everyone, and usually even unique trip-to-trip for the individual. When it comes to subjective parts of the trips like this, there really aren't many 'should's'.
I've had experiences of what could be called ego dissolution where it felt like literally the end of existence, anxiety greater than I've ever felt in my life. I've also experienced similar states but felt pure love and euphoria instead, being ultimately at peace. Both involved a separate path to get there, and left me with different impressions of the experience and different lasting effects.
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skOsH
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: feevers] 2
#27126205 - 01/04/21 01:44 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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If you did a fast acting psychedelic then what you experienced is in the realm of the norm
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky]
#27126213 - 01/04/21 01:48 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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Sometimes the ego dissolves without you even knowing so, one of my first few trips I had an ego death experience but didn't learn what it was until later. There was no fear involved because I went in with an open mind set and zero expectations as I had no prior knowledge to the mushrooms. Once you know about it though, and your ego grows back in a new fashion, then it can be considered scary, as you pretty much know what you're up against next time you go deep. The hard part is then letting go of expectations
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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Tucky
Smart ass.


Registered: 12/13/20
Posts: 131
Loc: Near a tree by a lake
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: skOsH]
#27126219 - 01/04/21 01:50 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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Nothing fast just about 4 grams of Golden Teachers
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky]
#27126230 - 01/04/21 01:54 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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great!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky] 1
#27126374 - 01/04/21 03:04 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Drunken Lullabies1 said: As I read trip reports it seems that there is some anxiety associated with experiencing ego death.
Yeah, it tends to hit a lot of people hard - but not everybody. It kind of depends on how comfortable you are with shedding your skin.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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InnerWisdom


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: PrimalSoup] 1
#27126401 - 01/04/21 03:16 PM (3 years, 24 days ago) |
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Primal the Gandalf of mushroom consumers
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Rise against
Stranger



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My last trip I dosed 5g of Ecuadorian + as much as 20g of penis envy. I certainly had an ego death experience. I really didn't have any concept of myself for a good chunk of the trip. I don't know how to explain it, but I felt as if I was stuck between 2 galaxies/entities of color. All I could do was look at it and I really didn't have any thoughts or many memories at that time. I wouldn't describe it as frightening.
After a while I got really nauseous and made it to the bathroom to vomit. This reeled in my ego somewhat and this is when the trip got frightening. I was in another dimension full of entities and I didn't feel like I belonged there. Then the thought came over that I was going to be permanently insane and stuck in this realm for eternity, like I was being detained. I called my sister and told her that I had been abducted by aliens and but became a little more grounded and chilled out. It was quite the trip.
It seemed like the ego death itself wasn't frightening, but transitioning into it and out of it was in that particular trip.
Here is the trip report if curious... https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27049737
Edited by Rise against (01/04/21 09:16 PM)
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Shroomysamba


Registered: 11/23/20
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Rise against said: My last trip I dosed 5g of Ecuadorian + as much as 20g of penis envy. I certainly had an ego death experience. I really didn't have any concept of myself for a good chunk of the trip. I don't know how to explain it, but I felt as if I was stuck between 2 galaxies/entities of color. All I could do was look at it and I really didn't have any thoughts or many memories at that time. I wouldn't describe it as frightening.
After a while I got really nauseous and made it to the bathroom to vomit. This reeled in my ego somewhat and this is when the trip got frightening. I was in another dimension full of entities and I didn't feel like I belonged there. Then the thought came over that I was going to be permanently insane and stuck in this realm for eternity, like I was being detained. I called my sister and told her that I had been abducted by aliens and but became a little more grounded and chilled out. It was quite the trip.
It seemed like the ego death itself wasn't frightening, but transitioning into it and out of it was in that particular trip.
Here is the trip report if curious... https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27049737
for me once on like 6 hits of tested lsd this all was happening and more but my problem is as im away my body still does stuff i still say things my trip sitters go through hell while im in my own world ive only gone that far once or twice and woke up with terrible stories of what i did it was like a ego death psychosis where i felt possessed entities i encountered were deceptive and tried to fool me some were real and genuine but a lot of bad stuff there too i would come to for brief moments of my sitters trying to hold me down fighting me and all i could get out were just the words don't beat me to death lol also wouldn't have any function of my body as i tried to stand up succeeded and immediately fell to the floor and couldn't move like i was paralyzed it was scary but 2 seconds after back to the other universe haha long story short i woke up with some pissed off tripsitters after dealing with that for 10 hours a swollen head bruises thrashed room and dried up bloody nose ego death just isn't my thing
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DJ Ed
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky]
#27127602 - 01/05/21 06:21 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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I have had an ego dissolution on fresh Mazatapec, and it felt like I was being cuddled with love throughout. Nothing anxious. However I have had many trips from dry, and one or two full on “ego deaths”. The points leading up to the letting go have actually been the most terrifying moments of my life. But when you eventually realise that “resistance is futile” and you consciously let go and just go with the flow, for me that is when the real transcendence and magic happens.
The anxiety is enough to put me off for months sometimes years. It would be awesome to have a stock of fresh mushrooms; I’ve tried Primal Soup’s tea and citric acid method but I must have got the citric acid ratio bang on 1:50....the come up from this frozen fresh tea is so fast it is really hard not to freak the f... out!!!
Had 5g liquid psilocybin last week which didn’t work, or so I thought. So I thawed out 2 ice cubes to give me n extra 3.6g: had to ring the ex to be talked down, because for the first time in years, I have to admit..... I panicked 
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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LRK
Zn+1=Zn^2+C


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27129666 - 01/06/21 04:25 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Was there before as well DJ Ed, where all I felt was the love of God over and around me.
Last week I took some 1.5g of APE and the come-up was so hard I started to get into a negative space in my head and wish I could break free from it. At that point I could barely move my limbs let alone even walk.
I opened my eyes and through my kaleidoscopic view I could see my wife lying next to me looking into my eyes and smiling at me. I just felt so much more comfortable and knew everything will be fine.
Had an amazing trip after that!
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Neurotech
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27130018 - 01/06/21 10:28 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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I don't think that was ego death. It sounds more like the ego holding on and not letting go. That is the way many bad trips start. Its important, I believe, to trust and let go. When I see or think mysterious and fightening things, I think to myself, "Show me", inviting the insight.
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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Neurotech]
#27130131 - 01/06/21 11:16 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Your experience does not sound like ego death to me. But everyone has a unique experience.
Of course most people will be fearful. We are human. We don't like to die. So this is natural for most people.
If you experience true ego death it is usually quite terrifying especially your first time.
You do not mention the body aspects. I'm not sure how calm you would feel if you felt the lifeforce being ripped from your body in a violent and uncontrollable manner. No one ever talks about the body aspects of this.
When you die it certainly is a wild ride for most. Unless you are used to dying. And I can speak for myself: I'm not.
I've had ego death. While I could see myself doing it again (in a few years) there is no doubt that this was as close to real death as I will feel in my life other than my actual death. If that doesn't blow your mind then you are already enlightened, or you did not have true ego death.
You have to ask for it. And yes, it's always intentional even if you don't know it. They do. Because they know you better than you know yourself.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/06/21 12:02 PM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Neurotech]
#27130845 - 01/06/21 03:49 PM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Neurotech said: I don't think that was ego death. It sounds more like the ego holding on and not letting go. That is the way many bad trips start. Its important, I believe, to trust and let go. When I see or think mysterious and fightening things, I think to myself, "Show me", inviting the insight.
I can still clearly remember my first ego death, must be 33 years ago now. When I first started dying, god and the devil’s faces were at opposite ends of a blood red cloudy windy sky, looking down on me like gamesmasters. I pleaded with them to let me live, on my knees in the gutter, with rain torrents gushing over me. I remember saying “I’ve only done 800 (liberty caps), if you let me live I’ll never take them again.”
But I knew in that instant they were not going to let me live. The feeling was like teetering on the edge of a bridge then you lean to far and realise it’s too late.....
I then got visions of my friends, my family; the emotions of guilt, sorrow, self pity, regret.
And then finally....acceptance. I’m dying. I’m dead.
I don’t remember what happened next, I must have blacked out and woke a few hours later about a quarter of a mile away, lying in a gutter, rainwater gushing over me, with loads of Asian men stood round me asking if I was alright. But while I was v]blacked out, I was fully lucid and tripping. I remember existing simply as a pure spark of energy. I was in a vast black infinite cosmos, that was cold, that was lonely. And it was eternal. It felt like this went on for thousands of years. Then I think I blacked out again.
This has existentially affected me my entire life. The fear of dying has started to wane in recent years with regular (lower dose) mushroom trips. But it’s still there. I ended up in a psych ward of the local hospital.
No brother, ego death was no healing spiritual journey of meeting god. I went beyond god, beyond the universe, to the abyss.
Mush love DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed] 1
#27142140 - 01/11/21 02:20 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Thank you for this. I believe ego death necessitates that you be separated from your body, your ego which is part of the body.
The body without soul or spirit lays there somewhat lifeless perhaps on auto-pilot for some. But I believe once you have had ego death your soul has crossed over into another plane of existence.
I did see the light and the tunnel and my grandparents talking to me from the other side but they did not beckon me. They simply reassured me of my experience and I felt their loving presence. Showing me they would be there when I truly passed.
I also saw a Cherubim (angel with many eyes) which was watching me curiously? Certainly watching. But as if keeping an eye. Very hard for the mind to explain God. That's what that was to me. It was all God.
I made the primordial sound several times. They taught me how. It came from deep in my stomach. I felt that this was the sound of God. The sound made in the beginning of time. That ushered in existence. It was the voice of God piercing every fiber of my being. I was shown the psilocybin in my brain lining up and vibrating to this sound. That's when I felt it. Pure bliss. Pure light. I've only felt this feeling once before when meditating every day for 2 years consecutively. But no entities in that one. Entities only appeared in my mushroom trip.
I found it strange that the feeling of pure bliss was the same from the mushrooms as it was from the meditation. It felt the same to me.
I will never forget it. The feeling of pure bliss.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/11/21 02:26 PM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27142230 - 01/11/21 03:12 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I had another most definite ego death a couple of years back, but this time from a much lower dose. I mean 3.9g dry B+ cubensis!
It wasn’t the same fear, but I was sat lotus position with my two labradors, otherwise alone. Fire on. Tripping fleece hoodie on. Blanket wrapped round shoulders. Just about holding it together. Beings of a shadowy description walking behind me, and making me jump. Weird scary horror type beings coming in from the front in slow, rotating, writhing motions. Warm, suffocating,,enveloping. Maybe the fire added to my overheating but I think that had something to do with it. I started to feel unwell and the classic I’ve poisoned myself feelings came to the fore. But that’s the catch, when you’re in the thick of it, no amount of years of experience means jack; you really feel like this time, for real, you’re actually dying!
So before I went insane with the fear, I gave in to it. I breathed out a long deep breath and decided to just “die” and accept what came next.
Then I died. It was the most peaceful, loving death I could ever hope for. I felt wrapped in love.
My ego died, or got switched off for a while, and I then existed just as consciousness. I had no aspirations, no desires, no regrets, no intentions; I just was. I was existing and observing.
Then an Amazon delivery driver turned up with some parcels and all hell broke lose with the dogs. That’s another story......
Mush love DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27142465 - 01/11/21 05:38 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I loved that description. Thank you for sharing. Yes absolutely. I have heard it described as poison. I like to think of it as some kind of snake venom but I suppose it's all the same. It certainly feels unpleasant on the way up or down as it were.
Yes I existed as pure consciousness. No body. No form. No hunger. No pain. No desire. No body. Not even numbness. Just nothing. It was the most freeing feeling I've ever felt. To be free of the body.
I asked to be healed. I had suffered some mild covid with residual pain in my lungs from the infection. When I came out of my experience the pain in my lungs from covid was completely gone. It had healed me. I saw the elephant god. Perhaps it was him who granted my wish.
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27143118 - 01/12/21 03:12 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Wow that’s amazing. I have never thought to ask to be healed but read in so many places the healing power of the mind and psychedelics. Most references allude to ayahuasca when they talk of the mind healing the body, but all the same it’s really intriguing.
There is something eternally blissful about simply existing as consciousness. Thank you for sharing. DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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wolfman42
Truth Lover

Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27143367 - 01/12/21 08:47 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Thanks man. I don't know had it been something more serious like cancer would it have worked? Did it work? The mind and the heart don't always agree on what I saw and felt. I take the heart over the mind in these matters. But it's confusing to say the least.
I did see the elephant. He is the granter of wishes and the doer of good deeds. None of my other (lighter) trips did the trick for me. I have read when you see Ganesha he has granted a wish or removed some obstacle in your life.
I think there is some healing power in the mushrooms naturally. The psilocybin certainly feels like a medicine/numbing agent when imbibing. It numbs almost all pain in my body for the duration of the trip. But usually that pain comes back after the trip. Except this last trip the pain did not come back.
This is the third time I'm hearing of this. Two of my friends had similar experiences.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/12/21 08:48 AM)
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27143743 - 01/12/21 12:16 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Dang, 4g GTs gave ego death? Woah.
If I get ego death on any psych, i meditate and pretend to be...like a boulder or something and my anxiety lessens. I just entrance myself with closed eye visuals and going with it.
Anxiety manifests itself on psychedelics if you try to resist it, so something might have tried to resist the ego death in your mind? I mean, as you do psychs more often I feel like ego death is more easy to navigate.
Oddly enough I "know" when I am going to have ego death on a psych. If I start to get absolutely blasted and the visuals get insane I just meditate or lie down, or both. If i lie down I pretend I am a log in a magical forest. It's pretty fun. I mean, you have no ego, and it's only temporary, and you won't actually die. I'd say just go with it. If you hear rain outside pretend to be...something outside. I would try to focus on any kind of distraction to ease anxiety
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: skOsH]
#27143902 - 01/12/21 01:39 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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I guess the part I had a hard time with was that I could not breathe. It felt like something was physically choking me until I passed out unconscious.
I did not resist towards the end. Yes this made it easier but it did not make it comfortable by a long shot.
I was unconscious for several minutes. That's when I experienced it.
When I came to I could not move my body for a full 2 hours. I was completely paralyzed from the neck down. I could feel nothing. Not my toes, not my hunger, not my pain, not my body.
I think the physical aspect on my body is what gave me anxiety. The other parts of the experience were amazing and filled with wonder.
Yes I can get there in less than 3 Grams with tea. The tolerance thing with mushrooms is bullshit.
My tolerance is less not more since I started taking them. It takes me less to get there now. Much less. So I have to be very careful unless I want to go on the roller coaster again.
Perhaps with practice and time I could become used to it and pass more easily into it. I don't know.
The intensity of it makes me question whether I should go there again and if I do I think I could easily wait a year or more before Id consider it. I may not have a choice if I get near psychedelics again. They seem like tricksters to me.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/12/21 08:10 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27144530 - 01/12/21 07:28 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJ Ed said: Wow that’s amazing. I have never thought to ask to be healed but read in so many places the healing power of the mind and psychedelics. Most references allude to ayahuasca when they talk of the mind healing the body, but all the same it’s really intriguing.
There is something eternally blissful about simply existing as consciousness. Thank you for sharing. DJ Ed
Maybe it's not commonly known enough. I know I've asked for healing(s) and received them, almost more than I could easily count. It's the spiritual connection that entheogens produce, and it's a reliable side-effect too. But you do have to ask for it.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27144537 - 01/12/21 07:32 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
wolfman42 said: Thanks man. I don't know had it been something more serious like cancer would it have worked? Did it work? The mind and the heart don't always agree on what I saw and felt. I take the heart over the mind in these matters. But it's confusing to say the least.
I did see the elephant. He is the granter of wishes and the doer of good deeds. None of my other (lighter) trips did the trick for me. I have read when you see Ganesha he has granted a wish or removed some obstacle in your life.
I think there is some healing power in the mushrooms naturally. The psilocybin certainly feels like a medicine/numbing agent when imbibing. It numbs almost all pain in my body for the duration of the trip. But usually that pain comes back after the trip. Except this last trip the pain did not come back.
This is the third time I'm hearing of this. Two of my friends had similar experiences.
It'd be good to start a thread just about this sort of healing effect. I've seen it reported many times now.
I know it's perfectly plausible because I've experienced it myself.
But you know you have to be totally committed to tripping to get there and it's not easy to arrange the right conditions for that to happen (also from experience).
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27144785 - 01/12/21 10:14 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27144841 - 01/12/21 11:30 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Agree. I'd like to. I don't think my account has that privilege to start new threads.
I still think it wants me to do the work to facilitate the healing or earn it somehow. But I can't be sure.
I do feel as if the psilocybin itself is medicine. It's the only thing that made me feel like myself again when I had covid. When I took some lighter trips during covid infection I was basically my old self again for the duration of the trip. I went out and did pushups and hiked and it was as if I had no covid at all. Then the trip would wear off and covid would come back. Maybe mildly better but I can't be sure.
Then the last trip I had ego death. That is where I saw Ganesh shrouded in bright pink color why do I remember this part of the trip so clearly and not others so much. Also a Cherubim angel by the bed also clearly seen and remembered throughout the trip. Cherubim angel had no shape. Eyes all over it. What a sight! What a fucking sight! God is real. I am convinced. I saw one of his first creations.
Then came the primordial sound from deep within the body. This is when I felt pure bliss. Better than anything Ive ever felt in my life. Ever.
I made sure to get my girlfriend on Facetime before I peaked to make sure I was gonna be ok. She was my tether to the world. I could always sense her love nearby during my trip. Ganesh gave me a message for her as well. He said she has some sickness in her stomach. Not in words. But I felt it. I gave the message to my girlfriend. She had some recent issues with stomach pain.
I woke up from this trip with no pain left in my lungs. It was gone. Covid was gone. I mean I can still feel a little something if I really try but it's a 0/10 or a 1/10 now and before this trip it was a 5/10 or 6/10 in terms of pain level and discomfort.
The following week my girlfriend had ego death or ego dissolution. We asked Ganesh for healing again. Again the wish was granted. My girlfriend's stomach issues were resolved after her trip.
I really believe in the healing power of these entheogens. These mushrooms. I don't know if this is what really happened or not. In my heart I know it's truth. At least I think I do.
Coming from a position of skepticism over the years it's very hard for my mind to wrap itself around what happened. It's almost too much to process. Nor do I necessarily trust my interpretation. I know what I saw with my eyes. I know what I felt in my heart. And I see the pain is gone. I also know or feel this couldn't have come from me. I have never seen these things before. My mind had no concept of them prior to my trip.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/12/21 11:47 PM)
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27144894 - 01/13/21 12:25 AM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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They are a wonder. Healing is possible. I know from experience.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



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The paralysis has to also come from an anxiety attack, I don't think GTs are wood lovers so that throws wood-loving paralysis out the window.
Did your throat close up or something? That sounds like a side effect of a seizure, but then you would also likely be moving around.
Might be side effects from covid, I hear it can cause some nerve damage but psilocybin + lions mane might repair all of that. Doesn't work for everyone though.
I guess you could try taking cbd next time and see if it smooths things over, its supposed to have an anti anxiety effect.
Or do threshold doses and try activities you enjoy and it could make you feel like yourself again. I remember I microdosed for a month and I really felt amazing for a few months. Actually felt like myself again
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wolfman42
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Would love to hear about some of your experiences man.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27145441 - 01/13/21 09:23 AM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Try not to be defensive about your experiences. There is nothing to protect, nothing is threatened.
Having experiences without egoic interference is most likely to be healing. (I could not summarize and feel truthful about it).
For the most part this (ego, ego-death, mental states) is not well understood, it is almost impossible to understand or define ego-death with universality, but we try and that is the most human part about it.
Trying to share the feeling, or come up with a way to access it reliably.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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wolfman42
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I've deleted the post. It did come off as defensive.
Everyone has a unique experience. I will say I think true ego death is terrifying for all but a very small percentage of people. You cannot control the experience when you've been shoved off of that cliff and neither should you try. That's the point. You give up all control.
But this too is hubris. I digress.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/13/21 12:51 PM)
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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: skOsH]
#27145934 - 01/13/21 01:14 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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My original reply to this was defensive. I removed it. My humble apologies.
I would just say this. The experience was terrifying and thrilling all at once. And in hindsight it was the most awesome and intense experience of my life which probably rivals only my birth and then again will be rivaled by my real death. I am content with everything I experienced. If this is my path than so be it. If this is how I must die each time then so be it. How wonderful and mysterious it all is.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/14/21 10:54 AM)
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Vibe_Enthusiast
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky]
#27146063 - 01/13/21 02:35 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Drunken Lullabies1 said: Nothing fast just about 4 grams of Golden Teachers
With the right set and setting, that will more certainly take you for a journey. There has been a few times where I've lost sense of self - but as soon as I realized it I became aware of myself again. I've never completely dived into a full blown realm.. but I have definitely flirted with it.
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wolfman42
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Couldn't agree more. Which is why I tell people to be careful with dosing. It is not as straightforward as it appears.
I think it can be influenced up to a point for a certain window of time. But if you miss that window or have taken too much you're going to be shoved off of that proverbial cliff whether you like it or not. The decision will be made for you.
I did not mean to go there. It was 'forced' on me with a relatively low dose. Less than 3-4 grams in some tea.
In my mind I wanted to. I flirted with it too. I think it knew that and so it tricked me. Or at least I tricked myself. Every single sip you take of that tea counts so much more than I knew at the time. Every single sip matters more than I could have possibly imagined.
Set and setting too. Willingness and intention too. So much goes into it.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/13/21 04:13 PM)
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DJ Ed
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27146231 - 01/13/21 04:26 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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Hey wolf man,
Love the avatar by the way; treated myself to the first three Hellraiser films on my birthday 
Not sure I agree about the “not having a choice if you take too high a dose, but you do have a choice if you take lower doses”.
It gets very complicated; psychedelics, dose, and age or experience. I’ve taken mushrooms for decades and have got to the stage where I can get to “ego death” on relatively low doses, around 3.8g dry these days.
But I have to let the ego death happen!!! Let me explain....
First of all it only ever happens if I am tripping completely alone with no possibility of “getting help”. It never feels good. I am always racked with anxiety and fear. And more often than not I will fight it; I will mainly distract myself by changing rooms, changing music, turning music off, going upstairs, getting changed, going outside, coming inside. You get the picture.
But when the stars are aligned and my mind is right, I can talk myself into staying still and going with the flow. I accept the fear. And I accept that maybe I am in fact dying. So this is what it’s like..........
And then I’m there. The fear has gone. The pressure and the stress has gone. The doubts have gone. Time slows, sometimes to a complete standstill. Then I transcend space and leave my body.
The next stage generally is all mystical, deja vu, time travel,,ancestor energies, clouds and floating, white light. And euphoric.
Sometimes the euphoria is too overwhelming, I have to adjust my position and cry. I can cry uncontrollably,,there’s too much good emotion to keep inside. Then I’m filled with gratitude.
But this does not happen often. I generally fight it. Or these days I generally dose much lower and go for a “recreational” or “rave like” dose 
Take care all DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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greenladel

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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Tucky] 1
#27146315 - 01/13/21 05:20 PM (3 years, 15 days ago) |
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it can be difficult sometimes, but sometimes not. depends on the person and their state of mind at the time. in general if you can open yourself up to it and be as prepared as possible to let go then you will not be as scared. a lot of the time new explorers worry needlessly about their first ego death, which makes the experience more scary when it happens. i guess you were probably more prepared for what was to come than you expected to be.
every trip is unique, as is every person, so there is no "normal" really.
safe travels
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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27147541 - 01/14/21 11:24 AM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Thank you DJ Ed! I love Hellraiser. I actually still need to watch 2 & 3 but the 1st one is in my top 10 for horror movies.
Your experiences line up with how I felt. I knew in my rational mind that mushrooms are very good at making you think you're dying. But that's just it really. It's the rational mind that dies so it's not there to help reassure you when you need it.
That little voice in your head. It's dead when you're on the other side. So it makes some kind of sense in hindsight that the fear of dying is prominent and you are unable to reassure yourself that the experience is going to be ok. That's exactly what the mushies are after. The ego. The part of the body that wants to survive.
They take the Default Mode Network offline. This is the brain network that enables us to be aware of our body. The part that wants to survive and live in the body. That part dies. I believe this is why going through such an experience necessitates some form of paralysis. If you look at most religious/spiritual experiences throughout history most of them come at night while the person is sleeping or otherwise compromised. These visions rarely come to the marathon runner while he's in the race and if they do the marathon runner falls to the ground and has an 'experience'.
But I don't really know. I've only had this ego death once. Yes I felt what I would call some kind of satori enlightenment. I think you've felt it too. It feels like pure bliss. It felt like the voice of God surging through every fiber of my being and it felt like the best feeling I've ever felt.
Shortly after I was floating on the ocean. That was the sensation. I believe you float across this sea of dreams to get back to this plane. Our plane of existence. I knew then that the experience was over.
Then the entities came back. They were at the beginning too. I try not to get too distracted by them because I've heard they can be tricksters.
I have not seen a demon thankfully as far as I can tell. I saw Cheribum. One large Cherub standing at the foot of my bed. They are biblical angels. I had had no concept of this thing before I saw it. I had to google around after the fact to figure it out. This is why I believe these things to be real. My mind never saw this before so how does it know what it looks like?
It would open its perfectly beautiful eyes one at time looking at me. It was there for most of the dying part. I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. Felt my relatives on the other side. I couldn't make out the shape of the cherub but wow it was huge. I would worship it if I saw it in real life. I've since seen this Cherub about 2 or 3 times in my minds eye. I can feel it around me sometimes. I try not to make much of it. I tell myself if it wants to it will give some message.
But I digress. I could talk on it for ages to be honest. I would never try to summon an entity. I think that gets dark. I don't want to attract dark energy.
Everything in that world responded to Love and base emotions. I could feel their emotion. It was a place of feeling not of mind. I knew what they wanted to convey without having to speak or be spoken to. There was no intellect there. I made sure to keep Love in my heart as much as I could. I cried uncontrollably too. It felt so good. The joy I felt.
Thanks for sharing. I really appreciate your responses and I've read quite a few of them here on these forums. Hope to keep reading more about your experiences and the wisdom you've gained from them.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/14/21 02:27 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27147723 - 01/14/21 01:02 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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That's reading an awful lot into DMN for sure.
DMN (wiki):
Quote:
In neuroscience, the default mode network (DMN), also default network, or default state network, is a large-scale brain network primarily composed of the medial prefrontal cortex, posterior cingulate cortex/precuneus and angular gyrus. It is best known for being active when a person is not focused on the outside world and the brain is at wakeful rest, such as during daydreaming and mind-wandering. It can also be active during detailed thoughts related to external task performance.[3] Other times that the DMN is active include when the individual is thinking about others, thinking about themselves, remembering the past, and planning for the future.[4][5]
Though the DMN was originally noticed to be deactivated in certain goal-oriented tasks and is sometimes referred to as the task-negative network,[6] it can be active in other goal-oriented tasks such as social working memory or autobiographical tasks.[7] The DMN has been shown to be negatively correlated with other networks in the brain such as attention networks.[8]
So called "ego death" occurs quite handily without paralysis of any sort. You're talking more about the paralysis of dreaming, which is a lot easier to explain, as it has its basis in the biological need not to act out dreams too physically.
Whether there's a connection between that and ego-loss experience is debatable.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27147850 - 01/14/21 02:03 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Yes I make no claims as to if any of what I say is true or not. Just conjecture and thinking out loud based off of research and articles i've read online and what I've personally experienced.
I'm a biomedical engineer and work in neuroscience for 20 years more or less so I've had a few spirited debates with colleagues about DMN and other networks and this sort of experience in general. It's very exciting new research coming up all the time. We really get into it.
Perhaps the experience does not necessitate paralysis. But it certainly necessitates that you not be aware of your surroundings. For how could you be? You are somewhere else.
For me I am quite happy I was paralyzed. I cannot imagine what would've happened to my body had I been "acting out" my experience as you say when you refer to dream paralysis. I simply cannot imagine my body moving while I was experiencing any of that. It would be like trying to stand up on a roller coaster while it was going through a loop.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/14/21 02:10 PM)
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Neurotech
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27147859 - 01/14/21 02:09 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
wolfman42 said: Perhaps the experience does not necessitate paralysis. But it certainly necessitates that you not be aware of your surroundings. For how could you be? You are somewhere else.
Some might take it a step further and say that as long as "You" are experiencing it, it is not ego death.
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wolfman42
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: Neurotech] 1
#27147863 - 01/14/21 02:11 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Perhaps. But you are always you. You are the observer who is beyond time. There is always you. There is not always ego since ego is part the body which dies. We usually confuse the two. I certainly have.
I've found many people to have a disagreement about what ego death is on these forums so I'll leave it at that.
In my experience I saw my body/ego lying beside me. They even had funeral for it. They are so funny sometimes. I can't help but laugh at the humor. So meta. The mushies always insert themselves somehow in my experiences. They always seem quite proud of themselves. But maybe I am crazy and have lost my mind.
Yes I truly believe it allowed me to tap into a world that exists. Another plane of reality that only the soul can traverse. A soul that is you, the observer. Who is not born and who does not die with the body.
These are my personal beliefs of course. I make no claims about actual reality or the truth of the matter.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/14/21 02:17 PM)
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42] 2
#27147879 - 01/14/21 02:22 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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In 33 years I can only count in one hand the number of what I believe to be full “ego deaths”. Terence McKenna once said something along the lines of “mushrooms can’t kill you; they can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t kill you”
For each “ego death” I can remember, it was always proceeded by the absolute concrete belief that this time, regardless that I know mushrooms can’t kill me, but this time, I’ve taken a rogue mushroom and I am in fact dying. Nine times out of ten I can then use all my energy not to die!!! It takes a concerted effort and plenty of advance planning in order to accept this “ego death”,when it occasionally occurs.
What’s happening in the brain when all this is going in, I don’t profess to know. I seem to have picked up two things about the DMN and mushrooms along the way:
1. The DMN is responsible for rumination, which leads to depression, or is common in depressed people. Temporarily switching it off is part of how mushrooms seem to be so effective at treating depression.
2. The DMN contains the ego, and is responsible for keeping us alive. It basically runs us on auto-pilot when we are not actively focussing on something. But as we age, these automatic patterns of thinking become more and more engrained. Which leads to inflexible thinking, which is also a feature of depressed people. Taking mushrooms effectively defrags the DMN, so that during the afterglow and beyond, we can formulate new pathways and new patterns of thinking.
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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wolfman42
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Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27147912 - 01/14/21 02:34 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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DJ Ed!
I sense an engineer in you. Absolutely, defrag is such a good way to put it. Never thought of it that way.
Also yes it's the kind of experience i'm not sure I could do again. And if so I'd wait years not months.
I'm all about those recreational doses now. Think I'll stick with that for a while. I have some minor PTSD from my last 'ego death' experience just because of the intensity of it.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/14/21 02:35 PM)
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DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27147928 - 01/14/21 02:43 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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You absolutely need to integrate an ego death! I love a recreational dose and especially when it allows you to rave for a few hours to trance music. But I always feel like I’ve cheated, like I’ve gone back to my mdma days! Which hold a dark spot in my heart, sure I made my depression worse with it. Anyway I actually prefer a large enough dose to “break through” but not large enough where the ego will dissolve. Round about 3.8g or 3.9g cubensis does it. Once I get much over 4g I’m heading towards dissolution......So with 3.8g i get some time and space transcendence, awesome music, some insights, and generally not too much discomfort or fear. Yeah at 54 I’ve become a chicken!!
And yes, I am an engineer, shame on me lol.
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: wolfman42]
#27148126 - 01/14/21 04:42 PM (3 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
wolfman42 said: Yes I make no claims as to if any of what I say is true or not. Just conjecture and thinking out loud based off of research and articles i've read online and what I've personally experienced.
I'm a biomedical engineer and work in neuroscience for 20 years more or less so I've had a few spirited debates with colleagues about DMN and other networks and this sort of experience in general. It's very exciting new research coming up all the time. We really get into it.
Perhaps the experience does not necessitate paralysis. But it certainly necessitates that you not be aware of your surroundings. For how could you be? You are somewhere else.
For me I am quite happy I was paralyzed. I cannot imagine what would've happened to my body had I been "acting out" my experience as you say when you refer to dream paralysis. I simply cannot imagine my body moving while I was experiencing any of that. It would be like trying to stand up on a roller coaster while it was going through a loop.
Good to hear. IME it's less "paralysis" (which I've had a taste of with a wild batch of Ps. cyanescens - a not uncommon experience) but more an extreme indifference to motor activity. As I understand current research the interconnectivity of the brain changes in two major ways - the loci of obvious activity (fMRI) shrink and fracture (to an extent) and the interconnections between these centers increase. In many ways it's a new form of consciousness - and I've spent a lot of time experiencing that so far. Very interesting things happen, things that are almost impossible to either describe or believe.

Indifference to surroundings is also a hallmark of high doses. But when your visual field is overrun and much of your inner dialogue recedes in the face of overwhelming whatever-the-hell-it-is it's easy to lose track of where, when, what you are.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed] 1
#27148828 - 01/14/21 11:14 PM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
DJ Ed said: In 33 years I can only count in one hand the number of what I believe to be full “ego deaths”. Terence McKenna once said something along the lines of “mushrooms can’t kill you; they can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t kill you”
For each “ego death” I can remember, it was always proceeded by the absolute concrete belief that this time, regardless that I know mushrooms can’t kill me, but this time, I’ve taken a rogue mushroom and I am in fact dying. Nine times out of ten I can then use all my energy not to die!!! It takes a concerted effort and plenty of advance planning in order to accept this “ego death”,when it occasionally occurs.
What’s happening in the brain when all this is going in, I don’t profess to know. I seem to have picked up two things about the DMN and mushrooms along the way:
1. The DMN is responsible for rumination, which leads to depression, or is common in depressed people. Temporarily switching it off is part of how mushrooms seem to be so effective at treating depression.
2. The DMN contains the ego, and is responsible for keeping us alive. It basically runs us on auto-pilot when we are not actively focussing on something. But as we age, these automatic patterns of thinking become more and more engrained. Which leads to inflexible thinking, which is also a feature of depressed people. Taking mushrooms effectively defrags the DMN, so that during the afterglow and beyond, we can formulate new pathways and new patterns of thinking.
Take care DJ Ed
Dude you're hitting grand slams with your posts lately!
--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27148874 - 01/15/21 12:09 AM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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Takes one to know one 
I think you're right. I may even stay away from recreational doses for a while. I am happy with a little cannabis to calm my nerves at night. I don't feel the need to use mushrooms much after experiences like that. It's even reset my cannabis usage so low I barely do that anymore. I still feel the glow of it. This was 2 weeks ago today when I had that experience.
I feel like I opened something that I'll never be able to fully close again. It's a bit unsettling. There's a new sense that wasn't there before.
I'll be integrating this for a long time to come.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/15/21 12:21 AM)
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wolfman42
Truth Lover

Registered: 01/06/21
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27148880 - 01/15/21 12:14 AM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. I hadn't thought of it like that before.
I'd love to do an EEG on myself while I was experiencing it. If I can ever get up the nerve to do that again. Could try on lower doses.
Yes I've seen that picture before. The fMRI. I can't believe what I'm looking at. It blows my mind to see that drastic of a change and that strong of a change in the network structure. How the hell does it do that? Why does it do that? I can't begin to fathom what's happening there.
Edited by wolfman42 (01/15/21 12:19 AM)
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DJ Ed
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Registered: 09/04/16
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
DJ Ed said: In 33 years I can only count in one hand the number of what I believe to be full “ego deaths”. Terence McKenna once said something along the lines of “mushrooms can’t kill you; they can convince you they can kill you, but they can’t kill you”
For each “ego death” I can remember, it was always proceeded by the absolute concrete belief that this time, regardless that I know mushrooms can’t kill me, but this time, I’ve taken a rogue mushroom and I am in fact dying. Nine times out of ten I can then use all my energy not to die!!! It takes a concerted effort and plenty of advance planning in order to accept this “ego death”,when it occasionally occurs.
What’s happening in the brain when all this is going in, I don’t profess to know. I seem to have picked up two things about the DMN and mushrooms along the way:
1. The DMN is responsible for rumination, which leads to depression, or is common in depressed people. Temporarily switching it off is part of how mushrooms seem to be so effective at treating depression.
2. The DMN contains the ego, and is responsible for keeping us alive. It basically runs us on auto-pilot when we are not actively focussing on something. But as we age, these automatic patterns of thinking become more and more engrained. Which leads to inflexible thinking, which is also a feature of depressed people. Taking mushrooms effectively defrags the DMN, so that during the afterglow and beyond, we can formulate new pathways and new patterns of thinking.
Take care DJ Ed
Dude you're hitting grand slams with your posts lately!

Dude I’m slowly clawing my way out of the dark woods I’ve found myself in since the ex of 37 years walked into bed with HER ex! Up and down like you wouldn’t believe. But it is feeling really good being able to focus long enough to start posting back on here again.
The online Shroomery community is second to none 
DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Ego death and anxiety [Re: DJ Ed]
#27149374 - 01/15/21 08:57 AM (3 years, 13 days ago) |
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except, the DMN is not a container for ego, it is just the set of neuron pathways that seem to fire most continuously in response to sensory and memory events.
It is good to note that when it is suppressed many ego-ic expressions seem muted, but this may simply indicate that perception which leads to ego-ic response is itself muted when DMN is suppressed.
Wait, maybe this means that you can explain the effect without using the scientifically weak term 'ego', but by using the nearly as mysterious term 'perception' which is actually memory field resonance with active sensation and other active mind forms.
I agree that DMN modulation is an important area of research for all of us and for science itself with respect to states of mind.
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_ 🧠 _
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Shroomysamba


Registered: 11/23/20
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