|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
the world is very weird 2
#27124532 - 01/03/21 06:52 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
|
|
. In regards to both: ‘Solipsism Revisited’ and : ‘The Simulated Universe’, and : “ Interesting debate between physicists on whether there is a simulated universe or not”, it might be worth considering that, the world is very weird - even without such theories (of which “Parallel Universes” is another odd ball theory, that got skipped here somehow). Even without considering quantum physics, the world is still very weird. . Consider that we never actually see any colors. There are both no photons in the brain, only nerve impulses carried by the optic nerves. And that further more, when colors are seen in dreams, or remembered by blind people (who went blind later in life & therefore have memory of color), there are not even any nerve impulses carried by the optic nerves, and the same is true of sound (and in the case of the deaf). . Everything we perceive about the world that we presume is outside our bodies is actually a model constructed by the brain. It is very similar to the way a flight simulator works, to train pilots. The fact that there are flight simulators, however, does not mean that, there is no 3 dimensional world outside the flight simulator. . Given that the world we perceive is a very crude approximation (we also forget that we cannot see that matter is 99.9…% space) or that the air & space around us is full of all sort of electromagnetic waves, (of which thousands of radio signals are just a small part), among numerous other deletions, and distortions. . It stands to reason that what we take to be our self, inhabiting a virtual world that we almost always take to be real, is also characterized by approximation, deletions, and distortions. . This being the case, the fancy theories of Solipsism and Simulation a la “The Matrix” seem both rather redundant and a result of ignoring what we actually know is true, but wish to ignore. . Why do we wish to ignore the facts? Because the implication, is that, like the famous line from the movie: “maybe…This is, as good as it gets”. . And what does that mean? That means that awareness of awareness is as good as it gets; however once the strange phenomenon of identification with a ’virtual’ or a contingent self takes place, desire arises for stuff and preferred experiences. . As the world & self are impermanent, contingent, approximate, & ungraspable, or in modern terms virtual - there is no way that satisfying a desire or desires can result in anything more than a temporary relief from wanting. This is unwelcome news to the self. . It would therefore seem its only awareness observing all this, which cannot acquire wanting, that remains at peace.
|
lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 18 hours, 47 minutes
|
|
Life seems to be an adjunct to your brain. A lot of this kind of theorising is really a reflection of an inner state. I've been in great states but I feel it was a trance. It's not like you can just live happily. Life is more involved than that. In my searches for meaning and purpose, I've come to realise it's not whether it has meaning or not but whether you can do something or not. Things that you can do easily should become your life. We shouldn't just "build lives". Bit digressive though.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
I thing there is too much passion going on in the op, but yeah the world is very weird, and so am i.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 4 hours, 34 minutes
|
|
The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?
And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
is fantastic significantly different than weird?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
|
|
I think the astronomical scale is the weirdest. Quantum mechanics - meh not bad but black holes, galactic superclusters, potential of alien life is good and weird. In terms of empiricism. The abstract is plenty weird to with various ideas some of which the op listed.
Actual life is pretty hum drum tho. The routine and all. Probably why people utilize the abstract for weirdness. Unless you can get a good microscope or telescope and start observing some stuff. Otherwise concrete theory gets a bit old ime and you gotta get mental with it
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
Yellow Pants said:
Actual life is pretty hum drum tho. ...
reminds me of the joke:
One psychiatrist says to the other: "don't you sometimes get depressed listening to problems all day?" and the other says: "who listens"?
|
sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,798
|
|
A space between your paragraphs would go a long way.
Whether the world is simulated or not, we will always bleed.
Is bleeding a simulation?
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
|
lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 18 hours, 47 minutes
|
Re: the world is very weird [Re: sudly]
#27129102 - 01/05/21 07:13 PM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
|
|
It's fairly easy to go most of your life without bleeding.
Except shaving.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
BrendanFlock said: The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?
And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?
Wanting has nothing to do with reality, its just a trivial part of reality, generally only important to humans, who like to feed its fires.
"And can we change ... a weird world into something more fantastic?
(1) Its all relative to what you think is more weird than something else.
(2) Most consider quantum physics plenty weird already
and
(3) no you cant change reality, but you can take more DXM.
Edited by laughingdog (01/05/21 07:26 PM)
|
BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 4 hours, 34 minutes
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
BrendanFlock said: The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?
And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?
Wanting has nothing to do with reality, its just a trivial part of reality, generally only important to humans, who like to feed its fires.
"And can we change ... a weird world into something more fantastic?
(1) Its all relative to what you think is more weird than something else.
(2) Most consider quantum physics plenty weird already
and
(3) no you cant change reality, but you can take more DXM.
Haha more DXM.. that's a good one..
Maybe add a beer or two.. hehe
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
wanting is no fallacy
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
skOsH
Functionally dysfunctional



Registered: 07/03/19
Posts: 1,372
Loc: the PNW
Last seen: 1 day, 15 hours
|
|
I had an epiphany with the universe and everything in it. Nothing makes sense without context and order, which is rare in the universe, and when we see things ordered, we try to use pattern recognition and make sense of it. On the only planet we know of that we can live on, life is weird. Honestly i think we are in a simulation
My pharmahuasca experience seems to give evidence for it Also i can recognize complex patterns in cities and the world around me and predict what happens before it happens, so I think there is some kind of intuitive ability for people to know how the universe works intimately, kind of like a coder noticing certain aspects of different code languages, and subsequently, what certain effects will occur due to different lines of code
Edited by skOsH (01/06/21 12:23 PM)
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: the world is very weird [Re: skOsH]
#27130660 - 01/06/21 02:27 PM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
skOsH said: I had an epiphany with the universe and everything in it. Nothing makes sense without context and order, which is rare in the universe, and when we see things ordered, we try to use pattern recognition and make sense of it. On the only planet we know of that we can live on, life is weird. Honestly i think we are in a simulation
My pharmahuasca experience seems to give evidence for it Also i can recognize complex patterns in cities and the world around me and predict what happens before it happens, so I think there is some kind of intuitive ability for people to know how the universe works intimately, kind of like a coder noticing certain aspects of different code languages, and subsequently, what certain effects will occur due to different lines of code
. The hand cannot grasp itself, the eye see itself, or infinite space get outside of itself to "see" what shape it is, or time get outside of itself to "see" how long it is. Do you see that there is a logical principle at work here?
. IMO absolutes can never explain anything with enough detail to be satisfying. Never-the-less it seems to me an error many make. I guess this error is made because it sounds good to say these things, makes a nice association, or feels good. So saying everything is a simulation, although it sounds somehow profound, seems to me just another example of taking reductionism to the point where it becomes both unfalsifiable and useless for purposes of explanation.
The fact that as you say meaning is dependent on context, does not show that the universe needs more context. It simply shows that "meaning" is not as special as people want it to be.
And that "meaning" is in fact always relative. And subjective when applied to a vague context that does not impose its meaning. . On a chess board how the wooden chess pieces move, and their powers or meaning are defined by both the rules, and the position of the other pieces. . But if there is a fire in the house and two chess sets and one is made of wood and one metal they have a different meaning to the fire. . And if there is no game being played, but the position is from a chess puzzle in a news paper, that spies are using as a code, the "meaning" of the position is again both different and on another level.
IMO order is so common (in the universe) as to be totally inescapable. Consider at one scale the periodic table of the elements and at the macro scale the shape of galaxies.
IMO folks do not know how the universe works. And if they did know they would weaponize it. And lastly what they do know, is how they should behave, and this is precisely what they do their best to avoid.
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
in my last accidental mush trance a year ago. I felt that this is not the real world (only a part of it) but rather a SAFE TRAINING GROUND. because in the real world(outside MAYA illusion) everything manifest itself instantly according to the contents of the mind-heart, same as during the mush trance. for that heart-brain coherence and harmony.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
so Maya is like nature responding to your presence?
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
MAYA is the veil or illusion that feeds the consciousness that this is the real-world. and I feel there is a natural response just like you mentioned but with a DELAY.
but if you mean deeper than the MAYA, the sub-conscious level of the universe e.g. matrix. Yep, I feel it can interact even with the slightest observation.
same as that mush trance I've mention. everything manifest itself instantly like fear etc. and its 10 fold or more than the normal.
I Feel that this is the purpose of the MAYA. to give us a safe ground to train that heart-brain coherence (mind harmony). because in other side everything manifest instantly just like being entangled.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
pacmanbreed said: ...SAFE TRAINING GROUND...manifest itself instantly ...
1) What do you think you are being trained for?
2) if things are not quite real here (due to its being a training ground), what makes you think your idea of what yourself is, is correct?
3) what makes you think the endless, instant satisfaction of all desire, is desirable? This is after all the dream of all junkies, and makes all activity pointless, as all junkies know.
4) as they have said for maybe thousands of years: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." or "Look before you leap." etc. Or all the fairy tales where caution is suggested when being offered wishes.
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
From Wikipedia: "The Upanishads describe the universe, and the human experience, as an interplay of Purusha (the eternal, unchanging principles, consciousness) and Prakṛti (the temporary, changing material world, nature).[36] The former manifests itself as Ātman (Soul, Self), and the latter as Māyā."
Yogapedia explains Purusha:
"Classical yoga is a dualistic philosophy where the universe is envisioned as a combination of perceivable material reality (prakriti) and non-perceivable, non-material laws and principles of nature (purusha). Prakriti is everything that has changed, can change, and is subject to cause and effect. Purusha is the unchanging and uncaused Universal Principle.
In yoga, purusha also references the true Self -- the realization of which is a goal of yoga practice as defined in "The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali." It is also the ultimate goal of all Vedic practices and Vedantic philosophy, examination and inquiry.
In Hinduism, purusha is a very complex term and has diverse meanings. There is no consensus among different schools of Hinduism on the precise definition of purusha, and it is left to each school and individual to reach their own conclusions.
In the Upanishads, the concept of purusha evolved to denote an abstract essence of Self and Spirit, as well as the eternal, indestructible, all-pervasive Universal Principle. Although there are a variety of views held in different schools of Hinduism about the definition, scope and nature of purusha, many of them agree that it is what connects everything and everyone."
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
Re: the world is very weird [Re: Rahz]
#27134147 - 01/07/21 09:47 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
What is your point? Are you a Hindu, a fan of dualism, or what?
Often the intent of my posts, is simply to point out to an OP, that they haven't considered their assumptions, which may not be as absolute as they assume.
One assumption, that is often behind other assumptions is that we need answers.
As Buddha (more or less) said "I attained nothing, when enlightenment occurred". In other words, something dropped away, but nothing needed to be acquired.
The statements: "No self, no problem" , and: "The self that wants to get enlightened, is the self that will be destroyed by enlightenment"; all point to the same idea: that more answers (and beliefs) are not the answer.
Hinduism as you present it is just another set of beliefs. Which must then be interpreted by a self, which will of course be seen to be insubstantial, & unreliable in the event of any real insight.
Edited by laughingdog (01/07/21 09:50 PM)
|
Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
|
|
Just tacking some food for thought onto the end of the thread friend. Maya isn't really "an illusion" unless it's seen to be the whole when it's only half.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said: 1) What do you think you are being trained for?
2) if things are not quite real here (due to its being a training ground), what makes you think your idea of what yourself is, is correct?
3) what makes you think the endless, instant satisfaction of all desire, is desirable? This is after all the dream of all junkies, and makes all activity pointless, as all junkies know.
4) as they have said for maybe thousands of years: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." or "Look before you leap." etc. Or all the fairy tales where caution is suggested when being offered wishes.
1) compassion and LOVE, goes for all individuals.
2) Everything here is tangible and has an end, thru hope and faith, the mind and subconsciousness of the hearth is not bound by spacetime I beleive.
EDIT: 3) I do get from where your coming at with that compassionate heart equipped with a harm reductionist mind for others, It feels not so good of a pleasure and too painful having a need to repeat this life with the same and repeating instances over and over again 
I would love to graduate without those excess emotional baggage(fear, hate, remorse etc.) from within that would manifest instantly(can imagine) in the other side, or add to it an attached reliance of those MERE tools (substance nor penny/MONEY) of this tangible plane.
never again I would be a slave of that mere stress ball of mine.

4) thanks for the reminder and that enlightening questionnaire ma friend 
I trully value your Thoughtful Post.
Great topic by the way. Shalom, Love Speed 
Edited by pacmanbreed (01/08/21 12:19 AM)
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
Re: the world is very weird [Re: Rahz]
#27134221 - 01/07/21 10:55 PM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said: Just tacking some food for thought onto the end of the thread friend. Maya isn't really "an illusion" unless it's seen to be the whole when it's only half.
hmm.. I've learned a something new. thanks for brining this up. its very logical & thats a good point of view.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
And where would anyone be without illusion?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: And where would anyone be without illusion?
since we are all here no one has the big grand picture of it, but I Guess the ancients left us some slightest clues, in a place of contentment and JOY that we are all BUTTERFLIES never wanting to leave that state..
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
Re: the world is very weird [Re: Rahz]
#27134565 - 01/08/21 06:37 AM (3 years, 20 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rahz said: From Wikipedia: "The Upanishads describe the universe, and the human experience, as an interplay of Purusha (the eternal, unchanging principles, consciousness) and Prakṛti (the temporary, changing material world, nature).[36] The former manifests itself as Ātman (Soul, Self), and the latter as Māyā."
Yogapedia explains Purusha:
"Classical yoga is a dualistic philosophy where the universe is envisioned as a combination of perceivable material reality (prakriti) and non-perceivable, non-material laws and principles of nature (purusha). Prakriti is everything that has changed, can change, and is subject to cause and effect. Purusha is the unchanging and uncaused Universal Principle.
In yoga, purusha also references the true Self -- the realization of which is a goal of yoga practice as defined in "The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali." It is also the ultimate goal of all Vedic practices and Vedantic philosophy, examination and inquiry.
In Hinduism, purusha is a very complex term and has diverse meanings. There is no consensus among different schools of Hinduism on the precise definition of purusha, and it is left to each school and individual to reach their own conclusions.
In the Upanishads, the concept of purusha evolved to denote an abstract essence of Self and Spirit, as well as the eternal, indestructible, all-pervasive Universal Principle. Although there are a variety of views held in different schools of Hinduism about the definition, scope and nature of purusha, many of them agree that it is what connects everything and everyone."
this is a Prakṛti-cal view of the universe in simple terms.
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
lostintimenspc
Stranger
Registered: 03/13/20
Posts: 222
Last seen: 18 hours, 47 minutes
|
|
I can vouch for the safe training ground idea.
Would you ever consider the possibility that you can instantly regenerate?
Try to think outside the context of history and the status quo.
-------------------- LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life' Your life, your call.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
|
In your dreams. 
By Instant regeneration...do you mean as in if one gets run over by a vehicle & dies they suddenly find themselves once again embodied anew?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (01/09/21 10:12 PM)
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
lostintimenspc said: I can vouch for the safe training ground idea.
Would you ever consider the possibility that you can instantly regenerate?
Try to think outside the context of history and the status quo.
good thing you mentioned this, there are scientific studies in regards to this like the discovery of neurons located in the heart, telomere regeneration by telomerase and much more. it is well documented and recorded more than 5k year ago thru teachings about our individual inner technology that is worth tapping to, even without the privilege of advance tools at that age that are now present to us today, as young 300 year old science is starting to prove slowly that all of this is unexplainable phenomenon awhile back then are plausible.
I had that idea and the same feelings & intuition a while back then. regeneration thru heart-brain coherence & mind harmony, feelings of empathy compassion & love against all odds are one of the keys in this training ground. A kind of BEING - practiced by our ancestors e.g.. Gautama. one of the greatest quote that I find amusing and demands great resilience is "love even thy enemies by Christ". one of the deep reason for that commandment I see is the presence of mirror neurons. it has its up and downs, imagine someone playing a beautiful guitar chords in front of you and suddenly along the way you felt your the one playing the guitar, feeling the same serenity as the Real guitarist playing the instrument. On the other hand imagine a angry person yelling at you while you start to build up the same feeling of anger, then later on learing to just listen calmly and reflect. By that healing our selves thru this deep positive emotions also heals others same goes with the opposite side of spectrum.
mind harmony and those positive serene emotions opens up a new level of brain state which is not quite written on textbooks the gamma state which is more faster & more compressed according to CT scans. Tibetan monks are able to achieve this state thru mediation for that regulated body function on demand.

if we exist in the others side and this side simultaneously, that's one of the reasons we are here. to train & to regenerate or replenish specially on the other side although not biologically but at a deeper level - ENERGETICAL LEVEL. speaking of instantly, remember that time or a day here is very different in the other side, could be a second or a blink of an eye there according to relativity. and speaking of Q.entanglement every present process, feelings, emotion in this plane mirrors our progress in the other side as it reflect back here to US like a hologram.
the notion of "from the moment we are born we began to die" is a wide spread thinking as a reference to the aging process. but I do find a consequence of that notion and way of thinking, that we probably would never consciously inflict in ourselves, because our bodies responds to those kinds of thoughts. the new science is telling US something different. its is more accurate to say that "from the moment we are born we began to heal" there is a huge difference between the thoughts of life, when we come to this world as a finite of experience, that we use up gradually overtime versus the thought of life as a living entity that is always constantly regenerating, rejuvinating and healing itself. as I believe, We are all just spacedust traveling temporarily on this earth not for indulgence but for a defined purpose - a goal beyond this plane.
|
laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
|
|
Quote:
pacmanbreed said: ...We are all just spacedust traveling temporarily on this earth not for indulgence but for a defined purpose - a goal beyond this plane.
Seems no matter how many times Self is transcended, the duality of morality seen thru, and meaning seen to be relative and context dependent, they all raise their heads again as soon as one blinks. Seems these notions are all much more addictive than Heroine.
Hence there are over 4000 religions:
"How Many Religions Are There in the World? Search domain www.reference.com/world-view/many-religions-world-8f3af083e8592895https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-religions-world-8f3af083e8592895 . There are an estimated 4,200 different religions in the world, ..." ... and almost all with the certainty of having all the important answers. ( Pretty much only some Taoism and Zen acknowledge paradox and humor, among the big religions. Although some folk and pagan religions have tricksters and so on) . The greek Gods were fantasized as having human motivations and follies, and of course the Biblical God was portrayed as both vengeful and cruel. . Seems humans will believe about anything. Exactly as the horse says of Dogs:
|
pacmanbreed



Registered: 10/12/16
Posts: 3,659
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
pacmanbreed said: ...We are all just spacedust traveling temporarily on this earth not for indulgence but for a defined purpose - a goal beyond this plane.
Seems no matter how many times Self is transcended, the duality of morality seen thru, and meaning seen to be relative and context dependent, they all raise their heads again as soon as one blinks. Seems these notions are all much more addictive than Heroine.
Hence there are over 4000 religions:
a nourishment for some, the paradox is it can also be considered as a hard to swallow red pill for some individuals suffering material indulgence.
4k religion is can't agree more. specially the young founded major groups together with their young practices with their bigger loyal en mass, unfortunately leaded by the same dogs who loss its keen sense of smell & is vomiting due to the fullness of its stomach, the humour is it cannot smell itself nor distinguish itself while its text books reference speaks of it. less capital with high profit, its all about business as usual.
anyway, still optimistic that some dogs who are lost in the wilderness away from their alpha dogs, are regaining their keen senses while being all by themselves specially during this times.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
|
|
Quote:
pacmanbreed said:... anyway, still optimistic that some dogs who are lost in the wilderness away from their alpha dogs, are regaining their keen senses while being all by themselves specially during this times.
yes
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
|
|