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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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the world is very weird * 2
    #27124532 - 01/03/21 06:52 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

.  In regards to both: ‘Solipsism Revisited’ and : ‘The Simulated Universe’, and : “ Interesting debate between physicists on whether there is a simulated universe or not”, it might be worth considering that, the world is very weird - even without such theories (of which “Parallel Universes” is another odd ball theory, that got skipped here somehow). Even without considering quantum physics, the world is still very weird.
.  Consider that we never actually see any colors. There are both no photons in the brain, only nerve impulses carried by the optic nerves. And that further more, when colors are seen in dreams, or remembered by blind people (who went blind later in life & therefore have memory of color), there are not even any nerve impulses carried by the optic nerves, and the same is true of sound (and in the case of the deaf).
.  Everything we perceive about the world that we presume is outside our bodies is actually a model constructed by the brain. It is very similar to the way a flight simulator works, to train pilots. The fact that there are flight simulators, however, does not mean that, there is no 3 dimensional world outside the flight simulator.
.  Given that the world we perceive is a very crude approximation (we also forget that we cannot see that matter is 99.9…% space) or that the air & space around us is full of all sort of  electromagnetic waves, (of which thousands of radio signals are just a small part), among numerous other deletions, and distortions.
.  It stands to reason that what we take to be our self, inhabiting a virtual world that we almost always take to be real, is also characterized by approximation, deletions, and distortions.
.  This being the case, the fancy theories of Solipsism and Simulation a la “The Matrix”  seem both rather redundant and a result of ignoring what we actually know is true, but wish to ignore.
.  Why do we wish to ignore the facts? Because the implication, is that, like the famous line from the movie: “maybe…This is, as good as it gets”.
.  And what does that mean? That means that awareness of awareness is as good as it gets; however once the strange phenomenon of identification with a ’virtual’ or a contingent self takes place, desire arises for stuff and preferred experiences.
.  As the world & self are impermanent, contingent, approximate, & ungraspable, or in modern terms virtual - there is no way that satisfying a desire or desires can result in anything more than a temporary relief from wanting. This is unwelcome news to the self.
.  It would therefore seem its only awareness observing all this, which cannot acquire wanting, that remains at peace.


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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #27124553 - 01/03/21 07:06 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Life seems to be an adjunct to your brain. A lot of this kind of theorising is really a reflection of an inner state. I've been in great states but I feel it was a trance. It's not like you can just live happily. Life is more involved than that. In my searches for meaning and purpose, I've come to realise it's not whether it has meaning or not but whether you can do something or not. Things that you can do easily should become your life. We shouldn't just "build lives". Bit digressive though.


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: lostintimenspc]
    #27124655 - 01/03/21 08:06 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

I thing there is too much passion going on in the op, but
yeah
the world is very weird, and so am i.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27124899 - 01/03/21 10:30 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?

And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #27125467 - 01/04/21 07:30 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

is fantastic significantly different than weird?


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27126443 - 01/04/21 03:39 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

I think the astronomical scale is the weirdest.  Quantum mechanics - meh not bad but black holes, galactic superclusters, potential of alien life is good and weird.  In terms of empiricism.  The abstract is plenty weird to with various ideas some of which the op listed. 

Actual life is pretty hum drum tho.  The routine and all.  Probably why people utilize the abstract for weirdness.  Unless you can get a good microscope or telescope and start observing some stuff.  Otherwise concrete theory gets a bit old ime and you gotta get mental with it


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #27126778 - 01/04/21 06:01 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:


Actual life is pretty hum drum tho. ...




reminds me of the joke:

One psychiatrist says to the other:
"don't you sometimes get depressed listening to problems all day?"
and the other says:
"who listens"?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #27127357 - 01/05/21 01:56 AM (3 years, 23 days ago)

A space between your paragraphs would go a long way.

Whether the world is simulated or not, we will always bleed.

Is bleeding a simulation?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Offlinelostintimenspc
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: sudly]
    #27129102 - 01/05/21 07:13 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

It's fairly easy to go most of your life without bleeding.

Except shaving.

:smile:


--------------------
LSD, mushrooms and DMT are different structural levels within the same magically simulated mystery sometimes blandly called 'life'

Your life, your call.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27129128 - 01/05/21 07:25 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?

And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?




Wanting has nothing to do with reality, its just a trivial part of reality, generally only important to humans, who like to feed its fires.

"And can we change ... a weird world into something more fantastic?

(1) Its all relative to what you think is more weird than something else.

(2) Most consider quantum physics plenty weird already

and

(3) no you cant change reality, but you can take more DXM.


Edited by laughingdog (01/05/21 07:26 PM)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #27129230 - 01/05/21 08:28 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
The question is: Do you want it to be weird..?

And can we change what appears to be a weird world into something more fantastic?




Wanting has nothing to do with reality, its just a trivial part of reality, generally only important to humans, who like to feed its fires.

"And can we change ... a weird world into something more fantastic?

(1) Its all relative to what you think is more weird than something else.

(2) Most consider quantum physics plenty weird already

and

(3) no you cant change reality, but you can take more DXM.



Haha more DXM.. that's a good one..

Maybe add a beer or two.. hehe


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #27129788 - 01/06/21 06:44 AM (3 years, 22 days ago)

wanting is no fallacy


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OfflineskOsH
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27130262 - 01/06/21 12:19 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

I had an epiphany with the universe and everything in it. Nothing makes sense without context and order, which is rare in the universe, and when we see things ordered, we try to use pattern recognition and make sense of it. On the only planet we know of that we can live on, life is weird. Honestly i think we are in a simulation

My pharmahuasca experience seems to give evidence for it
Also i can recognize complex patterns in cities and the world around me and predict what happens before it happens, so I think there is some kind of intuitive ability for people to know how the universe works intimately, kind of like a coder noticing certain aspects of different code languages, and subsequently, what certain effects will occur due to different lines of code


Edited by skOsH (01/06/21 12:23 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: skOsH]
    #27130660 - 01/06/21 02:27 PM (3 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

skOsH said:
I had an epiphany with the universe and everything in it. Nothing makes sense without context and order, which is rare in the universe, and when we see things ordered, we try to use pattern recognition and make sense of it. On the only planet we know of that we can live on, life is weird. Honestly i think we are in a simulation

My pharmahuasca experience seems to give evidence for it
Also i can recognize complex patterns in cities and the world around me and predict what happens before it happens, so I think there is some kind of intuitive ability for people to know how the universe works intimately, kind of like a coder noticing certain aspects of different code languages, and subsequently, what certain effects will occur due to different lines of code




.  The hand cannot grasp itself, the eye see itself, or infinite space get outside of itself to "see" what shape it is, or time get outside of itself to "see" how long it is. Do you see that there is a logical principle at work here?

.  IMO absolutes can never explain anything with enough detail to be satisfying. Never-the-less it seems to me an error many make. I guess this error is made because it sounds good to say these things, makes a nice association, or feels good. So saying everything is a simulation, although it sounds somehow profound, seems to me just another example of taking reductionism to the point where it becomes both unfalsifiable and useless for purposes of explanation.

The fact that as you say meaning is dependent on context, does not show that the universe needs more context. It simply shows that "meaning" is not as special as people want it to be.

And that "meaning" is in fact always relative. And subjective when applied to a vague context that does not impose its meaning.
.  On a chess board how the wooden chess pieces move, and their powers or meaning are defined by both the rules, and the position of the other pieces.
.  But if there is a fire in the house and two chess sets and one is made of wood and one metal they have a different meaning to the fire.
.  And if there is no game being played, but the position is from a chess puzzle in a news paper, that spies are using as a code, the "meaning" of the position is again both different and on another level.

IMO order is so common (in the universe) as to be totally inescapable. Consider at one scale the periodic table of the elements and at the macro scale the shape of galaxies.

IMO folks do not know how the universe works. And if they did know they would weaponize it. And lastly what they do know, is how they should behave, and this is precisely what they do their best to avoid.


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Offlinepacmanbreed
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #27133353 - 01/07/21 04:19 PM (3 years, 21 days ago)

in my last accidental mush trance a year ago. I felt that this is not the real world (only a part of it) but rather a SAFE TRAINING GROUND. because in the real world(outside MAYA illusion) everything manifest itself instantly according to the contents of the mind-heart, same as during the mush trance. for that heart-brain coherence and harmony.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #27133359 - 01/07/21 04:25 PM (3 years, 21 days ago)

so Maya is like nature responding to your presence?


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Offlinepacmanbreed
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27133445 - 01/07/21 05:05 PM (3 years, 21 days ago)

MAYA is the veil or illusion that feeds the consciousness that this is the real-world. and I feel there is a natural response just like you mentioned but with a DELAY.

but if you mean deeper than the MAYA, the sub-conscious level of the universe e.g. matrix. Yep, I feel it can interact even with the slightest observation.

same as that mush trance I've mention. everything manifest itself instantly like fear etc. and its 10 fold or more than the normal.

I Feel that this is the purpose of the MAYA. to give us a safe ground to train that heart-brain coherence (mind harmony). because in other side everything manifest instantly just like being entangled.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #27134068 - 01/07/21 08:55 PM (3 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

pacmanbreed said:
...SAFE TRAINING GROUND...manifest itself instantly ...




1) What do you think you are being trained for?

2) if things are not quite real here (due to its being a training ground), what makes you think your idea of what yourself is, is correct?

3) what makes you think the endless, instant satisfaction of all desire, is desirable? This is after all the dream of all junkies, and makes all activity pointless, as all junkies know.

4) as they have said for maybe thousands of years: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." or "Look before you leap." etc. Or all the fairy tales where caution is suggested when being offered wishes.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #27134132 - 01/07/21 09:33 PM (3 years, 20 days ago)

From Wikipedia: "The Upanishads describe the universe, and the human experience, as an interplay of Purusha (the eternal, unchanging principles, consciousness) and Prakṛti (the temporary, changing material world, nature).[36] The former manifests itself as Ātman (Soul, Self), and the latter as Māyā."

Yogapedia explains Purusha:

"Classical yoga is a dualistic philosophy where the universe is envisioned as a combination of perceivable material reality (prakriti) and non-perceivable, non-material laws and principles of nature (purusha). Prakriti is everything that has changed, can change, and is subject to cause and effect. Purusha is the unchanging and uncaused Universal Principle.

In yoga, purusha also references the true Self -- the realization of which is a goal of yoga practice as defined in "The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali." It is also the ultimate goal of all Vedic practices and Vedantic philosophy, examination and inquiry.

In Hinduism, purusha is a very complex term and has diverse meanings. There is no consensus among different schools of Hinduism on the precise definition of purusha, and it is left to each school and individual to reach their own conclusions.

In the Upanishads, the concept of purusha evolved to denote an abstract essence of Self and Spirit, as well as the eternal, indestructible, all-pervasive Universal Principle. Although there are a variety of views held in different schools of Hinduism about the definition, scope and nature of purusha, many of them agree that it is what connects everything and everyone."


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: the world is very weird [Re: Rahz]
    #27134147 - 01/07/21 09:47 PM (3 years, 20 days ago)

What is your point? Are you a Hindu, a fan of dualism, or what?

Often the intent of my posts, is simply to point out to an OP, that they haven't considered their assumptions, which may not be as absolute as they assume.

One assumption, that is often behind other assumptions is that we need answers.

As Buddha (more or less) said "I attained nothing, when enlightenment occurred". In other words, something dropped away, but nothing needed to be acquired.

The statements: "No self, no problem" , and: "The self that wants to get enlightened, is the self that will be destroyed by enlightenment"; all point to the same idea: that more answers (and beliefs) are not the answer.

Hinduism as you present it is just another set of beliefs. Which must then be interpreted by a self, which will of course be seen to be insubstantial, & unreliable in the event of any real insight.


Edited by laughingdog (01/07/21 09:50 PM)


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