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OfflineRise against
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"Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416
    #27124527 - 01/03/21 06:48 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

New York wants the authority to forcibly detain anybody "suspected" of being a danger to public health. Read it for yourself, this is right off the new York senate website. No fucking way this is going to end well if passed. People need to wake up.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/a416


Edited by Rise against (01/03/21 06:50 PM)


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OfflineRise against
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against]
    #27124536 - 01/03/21 06:55 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

There are no limits on this bill. Theoretically somebody with HIV or hep could be detained for life.


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against]
    #27124549 - 01/03/21 07:03 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

:panic:


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against] * 1
    #27124554 - 01/03/21 07:06 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Now it is 1984
Knock-knock at your front door
It's the lab coat secret police
They have come for your unwell niece
Come quietly to the camp
You'd look nice as a drawstring lamp
Don't you worry, it's only a shower
For your clothes, here's a pretty flower
Die on organic poison gas
COVID's true plan already hatched
You will croak, you little homo
When you mess with Governor Cuomo
When you mess with Governor Cuomo

New York über alles
New York über alles
Über alles, New York
Über alles, New York






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InvisibleAhab McBathsalts
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 1
    #27124558 - 01/03/21 07:09 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Not even the most shocking thing this week in this country.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against] * 6
    #27124562 - 01/03/21 07:14 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

Rise against said:
There are no limits on this bill. Theoretically somebody with HIV or hep could be detained for life.



Other than these?

Quote:


THE PROVISIONS
OF  THIS  SECTION  SHALL  BE  UTILIZED  IN  THE  EVENT THAT THE GOVERNOR
DECLARES A STATE OF HEALTH EMERGENCY DUE TO AN EPIDEMIC OF ANY  COMMUNICABLE DISEASE.
FIND YOUR SENATOR

                    S T A T E  O F  N E W  Y O R K
________________________________________________________________________

                                    416

                        2021-2022 Regular Sessions

                          I N  A S S E M B L Y

                                (PREFILED)

                              January 6, 2021
                                ___________

Introduced  by M. of A. PERRY -- read once and referred to the Committee
  on Health

AN ACT to amend the public health law, in relation  to  the  removal  of
  cases,  contacts  and carriers of communicable diseases who are poten-
  tially dangerous to the public health

  THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, REPRESENTED IN SENATE AND  ASSEM-
BLY, DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

  Section  1.  The  public health law is amended by adding a new section
2120-a to read as follows:
  § 2120-A. REMOVAL AND DETENTION OF CASES, CONTACTS  AND  CARRIERS  WHO
ARE OR MAY BE A DANGER TO PUBLIC HEALTH; OTHER ORDERS. 1. THE PROVISIONS
OF  THIS  SECTION  SHALL  BE  UTILIZED  IN  THE  EVENT THAT THE GOVERNOR
DECLARES A STATE OF HEALTH EMERGENCY DUE TO AN EPIDEMIC OF ANY  COMMUNI-
CABLE DISEASE.
  2.  UPON  DETERMINING BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THE HEALTH
OF OTHERS IS OR MAY BE ENDANGERED BY A  CASE,  CONTACT  OR  CARRIER,  OR
SUSPECTED  CASE, CONTACT OR CARRIER OF A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE THAT, IN THE
OPINION OF THE GOVERNOR, AFTER CONSULTATION WITH THE  COMMISSIONER,  MAY
POSE  AN  IMMINENT AND SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO THE PUBLIC HEALTH RESULTING
IN SEVERE MORBIDITY OR HIGH MORTALITY, THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER  DELE-
GEE,  INCLUDING,  BUT  NOT  LIMITED  TO THE COMMISSIONER OR THE HEADS OF
LOCAL HEALTH DEPARTMENTS, MAY ORDER THE REMOVAL AND/OR DETENTION OF SUCH
A PERSON OR OF A GROUP OF SUCH PERSONS BY ISSUING A SINGLE ORDER,  IDEN-
TIFYING  SUCH  PERSONS  EITHER  BY  NAME  OR  BY  A  REASONABLY SPECIFIC
DESCRIPTION OF THE INDIVIDUALS OR GROUP BEING DETAINED. SUCH  PERSON  OR
GROUP OF PERSONS SHALL BE DETAINED IN A MEDICAL FACILITY OR OTHER APPRO-
PRIATE  FACILITY  OR  PREMISES  DESIGNATED BY THE GOVERNOR OR HIS OR HER
DELEGEE AND COMPLYING WITH SUBDIVISION FIVE OF THIS SECTION.
  3. A PERSON OR GROUP REMOVED OR DETAINED BY ORDER OF THE  GOVERNOR  OR
HIS  OR HER DELEGEE PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS SECTION SHALL BE

 

A. 416                              2

DETAINED FOR SUCH PERIOD AND IN SUCH MANNER AS THE DEPARTMENT MAY DIRECT
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS SECTION.
  4. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY INCONSISTENT PROVISION OF THIS SECTION:
  (A) A CONFIRMED CASE OR A CARRIER WHO IS DETAINED PURSUANT TO SUBDIVI-
SION  TWO  OF  THIS  SECTION SHALL NOT CONTINUE TO BE DETAINED AFTER THE
DEPARTMENT DETERMINES THAT SUCH PERSON IS NO LONGER CONTAGIOUS.
  (B) A SUSPECTED CASE OR SUSPECTED CARRIER WHO IS DETAINED PURSUANT  TO
SUBDIVISION  TWO OF THIS SECTION SHALL NOT CONTINUE TO BE DETAINED AFTER
THE DEPARTMENT DETERMINES, WITH THE EXERCISE OF DUE DILIGENCE, THAT SUCH
PERSON IS NOT INFECTED WITH OR HAS NOT BEEN EXPOSED TO SUCH  A  DISEASE,
OR  IF  INFECTED WITH OR EXPOSED TO SUCH A DISEASE, NO LONGER IS OR WILL
BECOME CONTAGIOUS.
  (C) A PERSON WHO IS DETAINED  PURSUANT  TO  SUBDIVISION  TWO  OF  THIS
SECTION AS A CONTACT OF A CONFIRMED CASE OR A CARRIER SHALL NOT CONTINUE
TO  BE  DETAINED  AFTER THE DEPARTMENT DETERMINES THAT THE PERSON IS NOT
INFECTED WITH THE DISEASE OR THAT SUCH  CONTACT  NO  LONGER  PRESENTS  A
POTENTIAL DANGER TO THE HEALTH OF OTHERS.
  (D)  A  PERSON  WHO  IS  DETAINED  PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS
SECTION AS A CONTACT OF A  SUSPECTED  CASE  SHALL  NOT  CONTINUE  TO  BE
DETAINED:
  (I)  AFTER  THE  DEPARTMENT DETERMINES, WITH THE EXERCISE OF DUE DILI-
GENCE, THAT THE SUSPECTED CASE WAS NOT INFECTED WITH SUCH A DISEASE,  OR
WAS  NOT CONTAGIOUS AT THE TIME THE CONTACT WAS EXPOSED TO SUCH INDIVID-
UAL; OR
  (II) AFTER THE  DEPARTMENT  DETERMINES  THAT  THE  CONTACT  NO  LONGER
PRESENTS A POTENTIAL DANGER TO THE HEALTH OF OTHERS.
  5.  A  PERSON  WHO  IS  DETAINED  PURSUANT  TO SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS
SECTION SHALL, AS IS APPROPRIATE TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES:
  (A) HAVE HIS OR HER MEDICAL CONDITION AND NEEDS ASSESSED AND ADDRESSED
ON A REGULAR BASIS, AND
  (B) BE DETAINED  IN  A  MANNER  THAT  IS  CONSISTENT  WITH  RECOGNIZED
ISOLATION  AND  INFECTION  CONTROL  PRINCIPLES  IN ORDER TO MINIMIZE THE
LIKELIHOOD OF TRANSMISSION OF INFECTION TO SUCH PERSON AND TO OTHERS.
  6. WHEN A PERSON OR GROUP IS ORDERED TO BE DETAINED PURSUANT TO SUBDI-
VISION TWO OF THIS SECTION FOR A PERIOD  NOT  EXCEEDING  THREE  BUSINESS
DAYS,  SUCH  PERSON  OR  MEMBER  OF  SUCH  GROUP SHALL, UPON REQUEST, BE
AFFORDED AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD.  IF  A  PERSON  OR  GROUP  DETAINED
PURSUANT  TO SUBDIVISION TWO OF THIS SECTION NEEDS TO BE DETAINED BEYOND
THREE BUSINESS DAYS, THEY SHALL BE PROVIDED WITH AN  ADDITIONAL  COMMIS-
SIONER'S ORDER PURSUANT TO SUBDIVISIONS TWO AND EIGHT OF THIS SECTION.
  7. WHEN A PERSON OR GROUP IS ORDERED TO BE DETAINED PURSUANT TO SUBDI-
VISION  TWO  OF THIS SECTION FOR A PERIOD EXCEEDING THREE BUSINESS DAYS,
AND SUCH PERSON OR MEMBER OF SUCH GROUP REQUESTS RELEASE,  THE  GOVERNOR
OR  HIS  OR  HER  DELEGEE  SHALL  MAKE  AN APPLICATION FOR A COURT ORDER
AUTHORIZING SUCH DETENTION WITHIN THREE BUSINESS DAYS AFTER SUCH REQUEST
BY THE END OF THE FIRST BUSINESS DAY FOLLOWING SUCH SATURDAY, SUNDAY, OR
LEGAL HOLIDAY, WHICH APPLICATION SHALL INCLUDE A REQUEST  FOR  AN  EXPE-
DITED  HEARING.  AFTER ANY SUCH REQUEST FOR RELEASE, DETENTION SHALL NOT
CONTINUE FOR MORE THAN FIVE BUSINESS DAYS IN  THE  ABSENCE  OF  A  COURT




and all of the rest of it, too, which I will not waste more space here with


Medical personnel dont want to hurt you or take your freedoms away. Freedom to injure other people without provocation does nor exist. Unfortunately we occasionally get a patient at the hospital who is sick with covid who does not believe in covid and leaves against medical advice. People who are actively infected and leave should be detained if it is determined that they are unlikely to comply with quarantine orders. It isnt about wanting to punish them, it is about saving other people from their stupidity.


There are plenty of precedents for detaining people with medical cause. I would suggest the doctor evaluate and order a 72hr hold on clients I believe are very likely to hurt someone else if we let them go due to mental illness/ insanity every single time. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. It is also legal to do so.

This is exactly the same. People who deny covid are insane and people who acknowledge it but go out anyway while infected are either egregiously thoughtless or outright sadistic.

Getting these holds on clients is a huge pain in the ass and requires a lot of paperwork. Nobody wants to do it, in fact some dont do it when they ought to just because it is a pain.


Edited by morrowasted (01/03/21 10:04 PM)


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OfflineRise against
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27124585 - 01/03/21 07:24 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

I'm sure there are people who support it with good faith. However, I see it as an extremely dark path to go down. To many examples of "forced detention" that have gone wrong. Once you give governments these powers, they never go away and tend to grow overtime and create a larger government as more and more government jobs are created over time. When the CIA was created during war time is an example of this. Then people have power and feel as though they need to act on their power because it's "their job." We need to be careful


Edited by Rise against (01/03/21 07:26 PM)


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against] * 4
    #27124598 - 01/03/21 07:30 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Hate to break it to ya bud but forcibly detaining people isn't exactly a new government power. And like I said even with respect to  problems of a medical rather than criminal nature, it isn't new. Most places in the world it wouldn't even be a question whether or not it's acceptable to detain someone that's infected with a contagious and deadly illness who either refuses to accept that they have it or refuses to abide by whatever infection control precautions there are surrounding that particular disease. the UK just jailed a girl for 6 months I believe for intentionally violating quarantine orders. IDK about all that because like I said I don't think it should be used as a punishment, but I absolutely think we should be able to detain people for the period of time that they are infected if there is reason to believe they won't make an effort to detain themselves.


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #27124643 - 01/03/21 07:59 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

. Then people have power and feel as though they need to act on their power because it's "their job."


cops might do this, medics don't. if for no other reason than we dont have to energy to put up with any more bullshit than we absolutely have to. the very last people in the world to create drama are ER and ICU docs, they are neck-deep in drama all the time without a choice. there are many other reasons they don't use "it's my job" as a justification for hurting patients, though. medical principles state you never do any more harm to a patient than you have to in an effort to save their life. "saving life in general" is a natural extension of this principle in certain scenarios though


I would guess that this bill was largely supported by the exasperated medical community. None of whom actually WANT to detain anyone. If you read it, it says people will be detained in medical facilities wherever possible. Essentially all this is saying is that if I've got a COVID patient in the hospital who is saying shit like "I know COVID is a hoax, stop making me sick with your poison and let me go!", we can stop them from leaving against medical advice. Like I said we do this already with psychiatric patients regularly and the rationale is virtually identical.

in this case, the medics don't have this kind of power. the reason they want to act in this way, therefore, can't possibly come from a sense that it's "their job"- there must be some other rationale. Consider the possibility that their rationale is, "The hospital is already full and if I let this person go, they're likely to infect several more people, who are each likely to infect several more people..., and I'm sick of watching people die and want things to go back to normal just like they do." Only as medics we literally cannot simply pretend that things are normal when they are not. It's like asking an engineer to ignore a super obvious construction problem that's likely to result in a catastrophe. Except even moreso because it pervaded EVERY. SINGLE. ASPECT. OF. YOUR. JOB. FOR. THE. LAST. YEAR.

This is kind of an extension of something I frequently experience. Whenever I do a painful procedure- inserting IVs, urinary catheters, etc.- some patients act as though they believe I am altering the way I do things in order to increase the amount of discomfort they're experiencing- as if I am singling them out. It's very disheartening to think about what the source of such intense distrust must be. I do everything I reasonably can to make all of my patients as comfortable as possible, even the annoying ones. But I'd put in a detainment order on a sick hoaxer that's actively hacking up covid particles in a heartbeat. For their own good, and for everyone else's


Edited by morrowasted (01/03/21 08:09 PM)


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OfflineRise against
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted]
    #27124652 - 01/03/21 08:05 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Seems like it gives people a lot of incentive to not seek medical attention or get tested if sick out of fear of being detained. Also what does "suspected" mean? Like the FedEx driver went home sick so everybody he delivered packages to the past 2 weeks needs to be detained? Where are the limits of power?


Edited by Rise against (01/03/21 08:07 PM)


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Rise against] * 1
    #27124684 - 01/03/21 08:23 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Rise against said:
Seems like it gives people a lot of incentive to not seek medical attention or get tested if sick out of fear of being detained. Also what does "suspected" mean? Like the FedEx driver went home sick so everybody he delivered packages to the past 2 weeks needs to be detained? Where are the limits of power?



The limits are that we're already stretched so thin that what few regulations and laws there are surrounding COVID already such as fines and social distancing orders are almost never enforced.

Where I live it's supposed to be a $200 ticket if you're not wearing a mask in public spaces around people. I've not seen or heard of a single one being issued since April.

The way that this is worded sounds scary but basically when they say "suspected", I'll paint a disturbingly common picture for you of who they are talking about...

Patient arrives to ER with fever, cough, and an oxygen saturation of 85. Reports recently attending many large gatherings, proudly denies mask-wearing.

Me: "Okay, we're going to test you for COVID."

Them: "No you *cough*... ain't. I *breathe heavily* know that *cough* shit ain't *chest heave* real. Just give *wheeze* me some *cough* antibiotics and let me *pausing for 5 seconds to take several breaths* go home."

Me: "Your signs and symptoms and history suggest it's more likely that you have COVID, and it's important that we find out quickly, because your vital signs are very concerning. If your test comes back negative, we will of course run further diagnostics to determine the cause."

Them: *taking several breaths in preparation to say another sentence* "Just let me *cough* on out of here *wheeze*, y'all aint touchin me with *cough* nothin'."

Me: "That is within your rights, but if you leave you absolutely need to stay home and away from everyone so that you don't get anyone else sick. This is a matter of morality, not legality."

Them: *spitting and coughing intentionally in my direction* "Go fuck yourself"


This patient has COVID. It's "suspected" in the sense that they won't let us do a test on them, but they have it. We can spot COVID from a mile away by now; it's all we've been doing all year. This is the kind of patient I would love to send home immediately and, frankly, in my less magnanimous moments, let die, or at least fight through the illness without any of the comfort measures the hospital could have provided them with such as supplemental oxygen or steroids.  They are annoying. I don't want to treat them. Nobody does. Nevertheless, we know that the because of the way the virus works, and because of this person's behavior, the right thing to do would be to keep them there and put up with them until they get better, no matter how much they get on your nerves.


Edited by morrowasted (01/03/21 08:31 PM)


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted]
    #27124713 - 01/03/21 08:36 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

And even if you're just someone who went to get tested, popped positive, found out, never got sick enough to be hospitalized, but continued to go about your business as usual in public without waiting to test negative, yeah- I support these people being somehow detained. Maybe one of those house arrest bracelets?



It's like this: Imagine a guy got exposed to a bunch of radiation and is now very radioactive, such that other people occasionally get cancer and shit just from being nearby. Now imagine this guy either doesn't give a shit about other people's health, or doesn't believe that he is radioactive. Does that guy have a "right" to go wherever he wants? irradiate anyone he wants to? I mean look, it sucks for him, it's a very pitiable situation- especially that guy, cuz like, it's for life. With COVID it's weeks.

as it is, medics deal with enough (no, too much) distrust/resentment against the medical establishment. one surefire way to make ensure a person resents medics for the rest of their lives is to detain them forcibly. we don't want to make our jobs harder than they have to be down the line. But in this case, because we're fucked either way. if they leave and go make 3 more people sick who go make 3 more people sick, that's going to make our job harder down the line. if they develop a resentment against doctors that makes it a mega pain in the ass to do any kind of procedure at all on them, that's going to make our job harder down the line. it's all about doing the right thing, not what's in our personal best interests.


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted]
    #27124992 - 01/03/21 11:38 PM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Hate to break it to ya bud but forcibly detaining people isn't exactly a new government power.




Government (particularly the state) IS precisely a monopoly on force.


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27125418 - 01/04/21 06:54 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

https://mobile.twitter.com/SamBraslow/status/1345916823951167488

The police dont even make an attempt to enforce the mask order in LA


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #27125419 - 01/04/21 06:55 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Rise against said:
I'm sure there are people who support it with good faith. However, I see it as an extremely dark path to go down. To many examples of "forced detention" that have gone wrong. Once you give governments these powers, they never go away and tend to grow overtime and create a larger government as more and more government jobs are created over time. When the CIA was created during war time is an example of this. Then people have power and feel as though they need to act on their power because it's "their job." We need to be careful




You have a point and I wholly agree. Forced detention always has a good chance ov being abused.


Quote:

morrowasted said:

Medical personnel dont want to hurt you or take your freedoms away.





Quote:

morrowasted said:
] This is the kind of patient I would love to send home immediately and, frankly, in my less magnanimous moments, let die, or at least fight through the illness without any of the comfort measures the hospital could have provided them with such as supplemental oxygen or steroids.  They are annoying. I don't want to treat them. Nobody does.




So medical personnel do'nt want to hurt people? And yet in the same thread you, just one example ov someone in this profession, wishes death upon some people? Yes I do know what you're talking about but it's this same line ov thinking so common to those in the medical field that explicates why medical personnel should not have the power ov authorizing forcible detention; the abuse potential is there through personal prejudices, something already abused from those precedents you have commented upon. I do respect medical personal and recognize the positive impact they have on society but, IME, the 'holier than thou' attitude is just as prolific amongst them as it is amongst police. An attitude that, if given restrictive power over another, has great potential for abuse.

After I ODed on heroin/alcohol in 2013, my friend overheard the EMT saying something to the effect ov "another fucking junkie, he could die there in the street if it were up to me". That's probably not verbatim and I cant elaborate with my friend since he has passed, but it was some fucked up anti-humanitarian shit regardless. Given the power to do so, many(I am NOT speaking about all here) medical personnel will abuse any extra power they are given should someone offend their personal prejudices.

P.S. I have broken out ov hospitals trying to detain me on two occasions :wink:.


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: lavod]
    #27125493 - 01/04/21 07:44 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Who would Jesus bomb?
Yeah, who would Jesus kill?
The double talk is past surreal
The word of God is now the word of hate
War is peace, and freedom is the police state
Can't you see the writing on the wall?
Democracy lays trampled on the floor

You better believe that...
Hell yeah I'm confused for sure
What I thought was the New Millennium is 1984!
Mr. Orwell from the grave,
Adding fresh ink to the page
As the unpresident declares an endless war...
Welcome to 1984!

Feels like Nazi Germany, and Hitler on TV,
As the unpresident spews homophobic speech
You say the Allies fought a war
To end extremist fascist law
So tell me now what are the fuck we fighting for?

I just can not take it anymore
Democracy lays trampled on the floor...
Man, isn't freedom great?!

Now we've got...
Armies of peace, armed to the teeth,
Delivering death to make the world a better place
So celebrate the weapons spending,
Say a toast to Armageddon, raise some hell!
We're headed straight to hell!!!

Hell yeah I'm confused for sure
What I thought was the New Millennium is 1984!
Mr. Orwell from the grave,
Adding fresh ink to the page
As the unpresident declares an endless war...
Welcome to 1984!


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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Zombi3]
    #27125526 - 01/04/21 08:09 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:


Given the power to do so, many(I am NOT speaking about all here) medical personnel will abuse any extra power they are given should someone offend their personal prejudices.





Fair. I didnt "wish death" on anyone, by the way. Taking the position that the wisest thing to do in some cases is to let someone suffer the consequences of their own actions is not maleficent and is arguably even beneficent in certain cases.

In any case I am sorry you have had less than optimal experiences with medical staff. I had a similar experience many years ago when overdosing on oxycontin where I was quite positive the nurse was "giving me more naloxone than she needed to to save my life on purpose just to cause me pain." In retrospect I am quite positive that this was not the case, I was just one of many ER patients and the nurse was filling an order put in by a doctor.


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OfflineIma TrooperS
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: lavod]
    #27125551 - 01/04/21 08:21 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

lavod said:
After I ODed on heroin/alcohol in 2013, my friend overheard the EMT saying something to the effect ov "another fucking junkie, he could die there in the street if it were up to me". That's probably not verbatim and I cant elaborate with my friend since he has passed, but it was some fucked up anti-humanitarian shit regardless.




Everyone has their breaking point. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that EMT may have been burned out, and tired of trying to save people who almost always go right back to killing themselves. Heroin addicts are people too, but if you have to save someone's life once a week, at some point you start saying "whats the fucking point?"


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"Its moving of its own accord...and I like that in a shirt!" - Me, tripping.

deCypher said:
Schizophrenia beats dining alone, you know.


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Invisiblelavod
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Ima Trooper]
    #27125617 - 01/04/21 09:01 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Fair. I didnt "wish death" on anyone, by the way. Taking the position that the wisest thing to do in some cases is to let someone suffer the consequences of their own actions is not maleficent and is arguably even beneficent in certain cases.

In any case I am sorry you have had less than optimal experiences with medical staff. I had a similar experience many years ago when overdosing on oxycontin where I was quite positive the nurse was "giving me more naloxone than she needed to to save my life on purpose just to cause me pain." In retrospect I am quite positive that this was not the case, I was just one of many ER patients and the nurse was filling an order put in by a doctor.




Thank you for your respectful response. Your point is heeded and I am likewise sorry to hear about your experience. More recently, hospital staff loaded my 90y/o grandfather(who is also prescribed tramadol) with enough lorazepam to the point where he could not talk coherently and lost his sense ov balance, ending up with a thankfully benign fall. They only did this because he was angry at being detained after police found him driving the wrong way. He does not belong on the road but the point is that while hospitalized against his will, the power ov detention was needlessly abused beyond the point ov necessity just because he was verbally acerbic towards staff.

 
Quote:

Ima Trooper said:
Everyone has their breaking point. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that EMT may have been burned out, and tired of trying to save people who almost always go right back to killing themselves. Heroin addicts are people too, but if you have to save someone's life once a week, at some point you start saying "whats the fucking point?"




The problem here is that his opinion was based on generalized personal prejudice rather than unbiased assessment. I have never been addicted to heroin and, although I would sample IN heroin on occasion prior to this incident, ODed my first and only time IVing it. Anyone ODing should be given the same treatment, whether a homeless addict or a first timer, but the point is that his opinion was based upon judgmental malice towards anyone with enough opiation in their system to OD. And those with judgmental opinions have a tendency to abuse their given 'powers' beyond the strictures ov their lawful capacity once given the opportunity to do so(police, clergymen, mental institution and prison/jail staff, politicians, et cetera).


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Offlinekoods
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Re: "Camp COVID" New York State Assembly Bill A416 [Re: Ima Trooper] * 1
    #27125793 - 01/04/21 10:35 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Ima Trooper said:
Quote:

lavod said:
After I ODed on heroin/alcohol in 2013, my friend overheard the EMT saying something to the effect ov "another fucking junkie, he could die there in the street if it were up to me". That's probably not verbatim and I cant elaborate with my friend since he has passed, but it was some fucked up anti-humanitarian shit regardless.




Everyone has their breaking point. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but that EMT may have been burned out, and tired of trying to save people who almost always go right back to killing themselves. Heroin addicts are people too, but if you have to save someone's life once a week, at some point you start saying "whats the fucking point?"




Just saw that Los Angeles county has changed their rules for people who require CPR in the field. They are no longer accepting threse patients at hospitals because they are full of covid patients. If they can’t get you breathing before you get to the ER, they will just pronounce you dead.

But hey at least the bars and gyms are open right?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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