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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Professor X]
#27196466 - 02/09/21 10:34 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Professor X said: I made a sterile air box once that worked had air flow and vacuum, the scientific name is aseptic isolation box.
Is that basically a glove box combined with laminar flow? I found some pictures online and it looks very cool.
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27197054 - 02/10/21 09:46 AM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah. The flow rate is higher than our normal flow hoods but it still works because the flow is one directional, comes in and goes out and the incoming air is sterile. Like I said, I switched to a flowhood because the other was awkward and looked like lab equipment.
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


Registered: 10/08/15
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Professor X]
#27197316 - 02/10/21 12:26 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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But like... Even if your flow-SAB and the other guys ozone-ionizer work and give you ~95% success rates... What's the point of all the extra work?
I'd say I get 95% success with just a dry still air box and good sterile technique... is all this $120 bullshit necessary at all? Can you even show that it's objectively better than a normal $10 SAB?
Ellomello - but if you just use the ionizer to clean the SAB, how do you know it's doing anything at all?? Like even if you got your SAB 100% sterile, there are 2 big holes in it and you're gonna be sticking your definitely not sterile hands in there and getting your germs all over everything you just tried to sterilize. Seems like it all comes down to sterile technique anyways? Have you tried without the ionizer recently to see if there's a difference?
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
Edited by Svetaketu (02/10/21 12:27 PM)
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ellomello
XP



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Posts: 2,423
Loc: babilonUSA
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Svetaketu]
#27197691 - 02/10/21 04:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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hands are definitely sterile and covered in gloves and alc. it seems like i was having lots of contams, so that's why i added the 03generator, which only cost 5$ so why not. how i know it works is just science/common knowledge,  O3zone is what professionals use to kill mold/bacteria spores in houses, water systems, etc. It is also harmless to living tissue (unless inhaled) that you might be working with, and 03 dissipates within about an hour.. No fan, but you can see a small air-flow created by the spark gaps, it makes a nice blue glow in the box, which gives it a cool sci-fi look. i just leave it on while working, because it provides light and only has very small amount airlow
-idk if this would work, but telsa coils make lots of ozone...
 maybe cool to use one of these mini musical tesla coils ^13$ maybe it could sterilize your blade? it might cause some small airflow, but not as much as a burning flame.
-------------------- PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden
some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away
Edited by ellomello (02/10/21 04:20 PM)
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Svetaketu
The Devil's Avocado 🥑


Registered: 10/08/15
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: ellomello]
#27197734 - 02/10/21 04:26 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Heh, I was expecting it to be a lot more than 5$. Use it if you want, I'm sure it doesn't hurt your chances 
It's just a little strange to hear you try to sterilize a SAB... Not only would I consider that to be basically impossible (your hands/gloves with alc are sanitary, not sterile) but like the whole point of a SAB is that it doesn't need to be sterile 
But hey, if it was only $5 and you like the blue light, you do you  I'd consider it similar to wiping a SAB down with alc, which I'll admit I've spent more than $5 doing
-------------------- LAGM2020 LAGM2021
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Svetaketu]
#27197858 - 02/10/21 05:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Svetaketu said: But like... Even if your flow-SAB and the other guys ozone-ionizer work and give you ~95% success rates... What's the point of all the extra work?
I'd say I get 95% success with just a dry still air box and good sterile technique... is all this $120 bullshit necessary at all? Can you even show that it's objectively better than a normal $10 SAB?
Ellomello - but if you just use the ionizer to clean the SAB, how do you know it's doing anything at all?? Like even if you got your SAB 100% sterile, there are 2 big holes in it and you're gonna be sticking your definitely not sterile hands in there and getting your germs all over everything you just tried to sterilize. Seems like it all comes down to sterile technique anyways? Have you tried without the ionizer recently to see if there's a difference?
I got rid of it a while ago. Was using SAB for some time, only used the AIB when I did culture work. Now I use my flow hood which I absolutely love and will never go back. It's so much easier. The only failures I have had with my "ghetto flowhood" that "probably works as good as a schmuvbox" were all grain prep issues and even that was my apprentice (I suppose by proxy mine because I should have made sure they had it down) fault. Who cares what it's built out of or how it looks as long as it works right? I achieved Laminar Flow of sterile air for about 150 bucks and it looks like a tub with some stuff in it.
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Professor X]
#27197874 - 02/10/21 05:48 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Professor X said: I have a flow hood built out of a 120qt tub with a febreeze air purifier with a massive polyfil prefilter behind a 9" box fan into a purple 3m filter with a trash bag between them. I get laminar flow, the whole thing weighs 20lbs and I can put it in a closet when I'm done. I've used it for a long time now with 95% success rate (I lose 5 jars out of 100, keep in mind I run this thing 6 feet from 2 cages that house 3 and 4 adult male rats, I'd say it works great)
The whole thing cost about 120 bucks give or take and only required a tube of silicone a screwdriver some hardware and a little tubing. Everything came from walmart and home depot.
So this is a new post for me, and I know it is a month old. But How do you get Laminar flow from a febreeze air purifier with a massive Polyfil Prefilter behind a 9" box fan? Is this a trolling post? What do rats have to do with this?
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Sockadin]
#27197936 - 02/10/21 06:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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I adjusted the pre-filter until it bent the lighter at a 45 degree angle then sealed the whole thing together. Its a total of 3 filters a purifier and a fan. I was unsure of it when I first built it but said fuck it if it doesn't work it's not a massive loss but if it does it's a breakthrough. Probably shouldn't have even said anything about it here because people are so skeptical and for good reason I have seen all kinds of horrible ideas over the years. My wife wants me to patent the design because she thinks shrooms are going the direction of cannabis. To answer your question, it definitely works. I use it all the time. I've been using it almost a year and my failures are all due to my mistakes, not some junk tweaker contraption.
I imagine the low flow rate plus the combination of all the filters and the fact that the final filter and fan housing is under positive pressure is why contaminates don't make their way through to my work. My fan is much smaller than the squirrel cage blowers that are normally used so I don't need a huge filter. Plus the purifier I bought uses HEPA 99.97 not HEPA type 99% which also makes a huge difference. It also makes filters scarce.
Edited by Professor X (02/10/21 06:28 PM)
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Sockadin



Registered: 01/03/10
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Professor X]
#27198024 - 02/10/21 07:12 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Ok well I get the bend in the lighter, but how do you know if you truly have laminar flow if you don't have baffles in the design?
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
Last seen: 5 months, 16 days
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Sockadin]
#27198170 - 02/10/21 08:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sockadin said: Ok well I get the bend in the lighter, but how do you know if you truly have laminar flow if you don't have baffles in the design?
I think you should be able to tell if a flame or incense always moves in the same direction. You should be able to spot large scale turbulence.
One reason I never thought about using ozone in a SAB is that I never read any evidence that small concentrations of ozone in air can kill everything and fast. (In water it's another matter.) But is it really useful to kill a fraction of the microbes in the air, for instance? A reasonable argument would be that with air purifier and good technique, you can do much better than reducing your contams by a fraction.
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27198190 - 02/10/21 08:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago) |
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Incense and a bottle. It's been thoroughly tested. 10 minute open plate test too. It passed every test. The 2600 filtrete on the front only serves as a restriction.
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JessicaRabbit88
Loveable Nerd


Registered: 09/16/19
Posts: 78
Loc: Far Far Away
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: Josex]
#27232806 - 03/01/21 09:49 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: I bought an ion generator time ago, when I was desperate because my contam rates while working in the SAB skyrocketed due to a severe mold infestation in the house. All I can say is that nothing changed for me and I was still having the same problems. It was money down the toilet.
So what did you do to reduce your contam rate?
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gone-pear-shaped
Stranger than fiction

Registered: 10/30/17
Posts: 822
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: JessicaRabbit88]
#27232923 - 03/01/21 11:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
JessicaRabbit88 said: So what did you do to reduce your contam rate?
Josex wrote two teks about this, but the summary is to use a syringe and a jet of water--a micro tissue poke/punch--instead of a scalpel. And a preference for BRF when agar is failing. And using LC instead of G2G. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24806569 https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24740168
But I have another answer for dealing with ambient microbe count. TL;DR: vent all the air, then close off mold sources and use HEPA, then allow to settle.
My apartment isn't that bad, but I have a bathroom that always smells powerfully of mildew or worse (I suspect it is a biohazard), and both my toilets will eventually fill up with black mold if not cleaned often enough. It must be growing inside them. It's the moldiest place I've lived, but still not that bad.
- A few hours before I do a procedure, I try to cycle all the air in the apartment. Ideally this means turning on all extractor fans and opening windows, but I'm often lazy and just use the bathroom extractor fans with the bathroom doors closed.
- Next stage: shut doors to all known areas of heavy contamination. Optional: keep the ventilation going for an hour. Optional: put towels under the door frames, and seal the top/side parts of the door frames with indoor weather stripping. This will strongly block airflow.
- Almost done: turn off the air cycling and turn on a HEPA air purifier. Close more doors to minimize the area being cleaned. I like to run the purifier for an hour, but you can calculate this based on the air volume and speed of the air through the purifier.
- Turn off the purifier for 20 minutes to allow some of the larger microbes/particulate in the air to settle. You can set up the SAB during this time.
- Always put a wet towel or t-shirt at the bottom of the sab.
- Work on a rack that keeps your stuff off the wet t-shirt.
Related: My kitchen sink had a severe mold infestation, which I killed. You will want to do the same if you have a mold spore source in the same place you want to do your work. I made some peracetic acid disinfectant (do not skip the strong acid catalyst, or proper PAA will not be created). I soaked the hell out of the molded wood and helped it dry with a fan. Bleach would not have done the job, and likely not vinegar either. I also blasted the apartment with ozone, but I don't think that accomplished anything except reducing viability of my spore prints. 
Things I don't do: spray the air with sanitizer. This would work with high test hydrogen peroxide or peracetic acid, but then you would die. AFAIK it won't work with alcohol or sanitizers.
Don't forget the basics: shower, wear washed and sanitized gloves, use a surgical mask, and don't talk during culture work. I would consider all carpets to be a potential problem. I'm sure there are things I have missed.
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Professor X
School for the Gifted



Registered: 04/18/19
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Re: Bipolar ion or cold plasma ionizer as a filterless alternative to HEPA flow hoods or still air box? [Re: gone-pear-shaped]
#27232957 - 03/01/21 11:51 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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One of these days I am going to put up pictures of my work area. It would change a lot of people's minds about the need for a super clean work space.
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