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Pnw14
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Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone?
#27122501 - 01/02/21 05:32 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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So I only have experience with brf cake grows. I just ordered a couple spore syringes, and want to get into agar and grain to bulk. So what I am wondering is, should I start these syringes on agar and clean them up, or should I do a quick cake grow and clone a prolific fruit to start on agar for the grain?
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Podamous
Yeesh



Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 107
Loc: Saskatchewan
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27122506 - 01/02/21 05:37 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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Without knowing what equipment you have obtained or how much experience you have altogether your safest bet is to do a cake grow, pick the best looking mushroom and cut some from that fruit and transfer, you'll have more time to research and get the right equipment and materials to do it well and not overwhelm yourself with agar (its a whole new addiction).
Edit: To drive the point home, It would be the safest way, not the best or most efficient. Just felt the need to clarify.
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Edited by Podamous (01/02/21 06:19 PM)
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zMan
zMan


Registered: 09/08/12
Posts: 2,191
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Podamous]
#27122511 - 01/02/21 05:40 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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Your best bet at success is agar to spawn but if you're not expecting much out of the first flush other than to get a clone to transfer then I would grown to clone.
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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Josex
#cheat_code


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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: zMan]
#27122574 - 01/02/21 06:14 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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Yea, don't sell yourself short. Agar > grains = lots of shrooms, easy and fast. By the time you grow out a cake, take a clone and put it on agar and then grains, you could have completed a bulk grow and taken a clone from it too.
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Pnw14
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Josex]
#27122593 - 01/02/21 06:19 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Josex said: Yea, don't sell yourself short. Agar > grains = lots of shrooms, easy and fast. By the time you grow out a cake, take a clone and put it on agar and then grains, you could have completed a bulk grow and taken a clone from it too.
But is it a good idea to start out my agar venture with a multi spore syringe?
I’m just curious if it would be better to start my agar fun with a clone instead of spores.
Thank you all for the replies so far, I have learned so much from this site!
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Josex
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27122630 - 01/02/21 06:37 PM (3 years, 26 days ago) |
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Yes of course, it's always a good idea to start with agar. It is actually highly recommended you put your spores on agar first, as spores are inherently dirty.
You can use agar to germinate your spores and then select the cleanest growth you get from the germination plate and transfer to another plate. If you're going to use a spore syringe, flame the needle, squirt a bit of solution to cool it down and then carefully put a single drop on the agar. You can inoculate a bunch of plates with spores to up your chances of success and give you more options.
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Pnw14
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Josex]
#27122743 - 01/02/21 07:37 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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I guess the only thing I’m confused or concerned about is that I have read that starting spores on agar and cleaning them up with transferring good mycelium doesn’t always mean good fruits. So I was kind of thinking that maybe starting with a quick grow on cakes and cloning a good fruit would be a better choice? But again I have no experience with it, so I am open to all ideas and definitely willing to learn and listen to the more experienced growers.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27122749 - 01/02/21 07:41 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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The best results come from agar, if you read that cultures fruited from agar are somehow inferior then the author of that statement doesn't grow mushrooms. Multispore isn't the same as a clone culture, MS will run the genetic gambit of variability so that statement is partially true, clones however will produce more stable results. You can clone a dud though so it's important to work with agar and then test your cultures, there are no real short cuts.
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Broken Veils
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27122758 - 01/02/21 07:44 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Agar to grains will be your best bet. Isolating a non-fruiting strain from the original MS transfers is rare...get clean growth and go to grain...fruit and you'll get there as fast as any method
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bigfootscreepyuncl
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Broken Veils]
#27122813 - 01/02/21 08:32 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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If you have a pressure cooker just start with agar. It's fucking easy. I was in your same position a month ago so I decided to do both agar and cakes.

All those cakes were inoculated 12/9/20 with about 5cc all together. Just a few drops through each of the two holes in the lid. All the quart grain jars behind the cakes were inoculated 12/29/20 with a literal single drop of MSS because it started on agar, then one transfer and straight to grain. The cakes and plates were inoculated on the same day and the grains will probably be ready to spawn before the cakes. Thats just my $0.02 but it really is so easy there's no reason to start any other way.
With all that being said, if you do decide to start with agar I would recommend buying prints instead of syringes. Cheers, mate!
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I 5318008 NOT a virgin!
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Shroombitz
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Registered: 11/19/20
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Loc: Europe
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How about going MSS to BRF puck and when they pin get 'em on agar, clean them up and then to grain?
In this way you make sure you start from genetics which pin
-------------------- Ask not what your shrooms can do for you, ask what you can do for your shrooms.
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adhoc


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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27123232 - 01/03/21 05:39 AM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pnw14 said: should I start these syringes on agar and clean them up, or should I do a quick cake grow and clone a prolific fruit to start on agar for the grain?
Why not both?
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: adhoc]
#27123502 - 01/03/21 09:39 AM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Probably the best bet in terms of satisfying your curiosity and gaining the needed experience to understand their differences. The more things that you try, the deeper your understanding of the process will be, including getting intimate with failure and understanding why you got there; by learning what not to do you simultaneously learn what you should do, more ore less.
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Tattersail



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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27123615 - 01/03/21 10:43 AM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Both! you only need a couple of drops from a syringe to germinate spores on agar, so there'll be plenty left over to do cakes as well if you like. Agar isn't difficult to learn, you might as well have some cakes colonising while working on cleaning up agar cultures. Which means by the time you have a fruit to clone, you'll know a bit more about what you're doing with agar.
There's also the added bonus of having more mycology work to do, which reduces how much you'll pester the cakes
-------------------- LAGM2021 Trades We may lose or we may win, but we'll never be here again
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Pnw14
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Tattersail]
#27123733 - 01/03/21 11:50 AM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Thank you all for some solid advice! I really appreciate it. I think I will go a head and start both with the syringes, seems logical after hearing it. I can use the time the cakes are getting ready to learn as much as possible with agar, and if I get a nice fruit from the cakes I can go ahead and try to clone it! I’m pretty excited to dive deeper into this hobby.
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zMan
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Re: Mss, start with agar or do a quick grow and clone? [Re: Pnw14]
#27123848 - 01/03/21 12:43 PM (3 years, 25 days ago) |
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Your fear of starting with AGAR won't ring true in your situating. Basically you just want to start with a clean state, you don't have to isolate a stain and then fruit it. So when you knock with your agar there's still multiple genetics on there.
Both is a great choice!
-------------------- Information for everyone: http://www.mushroomvideos.com Are your grains or spawn clean? CLICK THIS CHECKLIST
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