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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] 1
#28123747 - 01/04/23 12:15 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said:
Quote:
split_by_nine said:
Quote:
Enkidu said: Yeah I understand the feeling
Split, try and keep up
A hen can lay one egg per day
How many kids can 1 female pop out per day?
so the sum of how fast something can reproduce dictates how valuable its life (and the life of its offspring) is. gotcha 
To an extent
The life experience of a chicken and a human are not the same or equal in my eyes
Humans have a higher level of consciousness and spiritual dimension than a chicken
If I had to choose if one chicken would be born or if you would be born I'd place a larger value on your life split.
Do you understand ?
yes i understand. you choose to put more value on the life of a human. that is your opinion.
humans are not inherently more important. you choose that to be true.
humans pollute and destroy ecosystems. chickens do not. what do you say about that?
-------------------- π΄ hpoo or die
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loladoreen


Registered: 05/25/20
Posts: 5,340
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: split_by_nine]
#28123748 - 01/04/23 12:16 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Humans are destroying out earth
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βOne doesnβt have to operate with great malice to do great harm. The absence of empathy and understanding are sufficient.β
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



Registered: 11/02/11
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: loladoreen]
#28123760 - 01/04/23 12:35 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Ill come back later
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
#28123761 - 01/04/23 12:36 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
BeefSupremeJr said: Ill come back later
not if i abort you
-------------------- π΄ hpoo or die
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BeefSupremeJr
Detritivore



Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 6,812
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Last seen: 13 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: split_by_nine]
#28123764 - 01/04/23 12:42 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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fuck ya abort me bb
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split_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: BeefSupremeJr]
#28123766 - 01/04/23 12:43 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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count backwards from 100
-------------------- π΄ hpoo or die
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: split_by_nine]
#28123822 - 01/04/23 03:38 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Never said more important per se just higher capacity for experience which to me give the life more meaning and value
I agree and understand your meaning
I think part of this place is some sort of spiritual growth etc and humans are the ones going through it more than chickens
But idk maybe those chicken coops got a lot going on too
I'd be surprised if you were given the choice to choose between killing a kid and killing a gnat and you choose a kid
I'd be rather disappointed in your choice
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,177
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] 5
#28123889 - 01/04/23 06:27 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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What enkidu is doing is assigning personhood on the fetus at the moment of conception. Personhood is the quality that we assign to living humans that make us choose to save them rather than save a spider if given the choice to save only one.
A philosophical problem arises when one does that though. A newly fertilized human zygote is a single eukaryotic cell with no mind to experience things, can't survive on its own, and resembles the 37 Trillion human cells surrounding it and keeping it alive.
So then what is the difference between that zygote and the millions of stem cells that we kill every day simply by urinating? What specific quality of the zygote gives it higher value than those stem cells?
If a human zygote was placed in a device that would keep it alive for a short while, and placed beside a similar device holding a mouse zygote, and you were told you had to choose which should live and which should die, and given no other information, how would you determine which single eukaryotic cell has that extra quality of personhood at this stage?
If simply knowing that it is human is the deciding factor, then at this stage you have to use DNA analysis to determine which one has higher value, which is unnatural and therefore off the table for you.
Now lets discuss the comment you made comparing the potential for growth and experience when comparing chickens to humans. How do you assert with confidence that a chicken has less capacity for experience than a human? They have eyes, ears, taste and smell receptor organs/structures, and mechanoreceptors than given them the sense of touch. They are social creatures that form social networks when placed in large groups, they are curious about their surroundings. What gives you confidence that humans have a more valuable experience than a chicken? Surely it's not their coop environment, because like you've said before, that's a human-imposed and unnatural state for that chicken, and would represent a very specific instance of individual experience rather than the potential or capacity for experience.
If you're thinking about brain size and brain structural complexity, then consider the following.
Human zygotes do not have a brain, nor do they have any sensory organs. They therefore have less capacity for experience than a chicken in their current state. Humans with certain injuries, disease or developmental issues can exist on their own with lower capacity for certain sensations, or impeded higher brain function, or with impeded function of specific brain functions. Do these living/breathing/thinking humans have less personhood and are therefore less valuable in your eyes? If not, then why do you use that argument to make personhood/value of life comparisons between humans and other species? This highlights yet another instance of your explanations leading to absurd philosophical implications.
And now consider applying these concepts to the decision to end a life. We as a society make it perfectly legal to allow someone entrusted with power of attorney to make the decision to terminate the life of a human outside of the womb, when that humans brain shows no higher brain function, despite the fact thay there are documented cases of people being declared braindead by a medical professional, and then recovering higher brain function after a time, establishing the non-zero potential for life. We as a society have decided that, once outside of the womb, the reasonable assurance of no brain activity removes the personhood of that mass of living cells than can't exist on its own, and hands over the decision to allow it to live or remove the support system and allow it to die to another person, most often a relative.
So then, if a mass of human cells that clearly looks human, has the potential for life and experience, but can't exist on its own without help and has no higher brain activity can be legally killed by its next of kin, then why does a zygote or early stage fetus who is a mass of human cells with the potential for life and experience, but can't exist on its own without help and has no higher brain activity somehow more deserving of protection by unrelated people and law?
Back to my earlier question, most pro-lifers that I've talked to say that what separates a human zygote from other human cells is the potential for that zygote to develop into a fully functional, independent human. But, using technology similar to the technology necessary to determine personhood of a single cell in our last thought experiment, we can now make any differentiated human cell into a totipotent stem cell, fully capable of growing and differentiating to a fully formed human, given a similar environment as the zygote. This is a scientific fact that is peer reviewed and documented, and gives any human cell the potential to develop into its own human life.
Now let me tell you what we objectively know.
We know that human fetuses are visually indistinguishable from other early stage mammalian fetuses until week 8 (so the human vs mouse thought experiment can't be done without using DNA analysis until the fetus is 8 weeks old).
We know that human fetal brain activity doesn't begin until week 6, and the structures required for higher thought (human levels of experience, since you've created a hierarchy of experience when determining relative personhood) don't fully develop until the end of the 2nd trimester. Until the higher brain structures develop, the more primordial structures of the brain limit their capacity of experience to that of a bird or reptile, which you've already admitted is less deserving of life than a human fetus in your eyes.
So then, why not feel like you're murdering the millions of stem cells that you piss out and flush down the toilet every day, or scrubbing off of your gums and skin when you brush your teeth or wash yourself? Why do you feel ok killing and eating farm animals, but would advocate for legal protection of a single cell that you can't even tell the difference between it and a chicken cell? Why do you angrily argue for the right of a cell to live against the wishes of the fully formed human carrying it, but feel that it was the right decision when your neighbors pull the plug on little Timmy who was hit by a car and was pronounced braindead?
It's because your philosophy on this subject is inconsistent, and your thresholds for concepts like "potential" and "personhood" are assigned arbitrarily. An inconsistent philosophy is fine to keep for yourself, but will never be taken seriously by others who work hard to live their lives and form their moral/ethical sturcture around a consistent and fully defendable philosophy. You are very obviously letting emotion, bias, and belief blind you to your own cognitive dissonance, and responding with misplaced righteous anger and appeals to emotion (a textbook logical fallacy) to defend your positions instead of a philosophically consistent and defendable argument.
Maybe think about this before posting like you know some absolute truth that can be so easily deconstructed, or just pulling random explanations for your cognitive dissonance that only expose additional cognitive dissonance. It will help with people calling you "selfish" and "buffoon", because you might not come across that way if you actually think through your positions on things like a rational human.
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,841
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] 1
#28123892 - 01/04/23 06:31 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: Never said more important per se just higher capacity for experience which to me give the life more meaning and value
You're aware of how much importance these eastern religions you're fond of put on all life being equal, and of equal value... right?
Some monks won't take a step before sweeping their path free of little bugs & insects.
Get your shit together, you're all over the place.
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: 1234go]
#28123994 - 01/04/23 08:18 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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123 you clearly can't read or you don't want to or you just don't like me so are blinded by the persona youve created for me
Either way idc
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,841
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
#28124002 - 01/04/23 08:23 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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You believe the human experience is more complex, and therefore has more value than other lifeforms...no?
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
#28124007 - 01/04/23 08:25 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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I'll come back and read that Jean
But I studied biology in college and psychology, I don't feel the need to direct things into scientific entities made by man t in explain their observations
It's simple to me, if someone is pregnant to go inside her body and destroy what is inside and pull it out is wrong and completely unnatural
Doesn't matter what you define it as
You can say it's cognitive dissonance and etc etc, thats your attempt to counter my view and belief but it holds very little substance to me
You're making it far more complex than it needs to be, for me
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: 1234go]
#28124010 - 01/04/23 08:28 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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I was responding to someone justifying abortion by saying you kill a gnat or kick rodents out of your house
Yes I believe there are levels to your conscious awareness and spiritual potential that humans and animals and all living creatures fall into
I didn't say ones better or one's superior as much as saying if I had to choose one I'm choosing the one I feel contains the highest potential for spiritual and conscious progression
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,841
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
#28124023 - 01/04/23 08:43 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Now you're sounding like a religious fanatic...
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,177
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu] 1
#28124038 - 01/04/23 08:59 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: I'll come back and read that Jean
But I studied biology in college and psychology, I don't feel the need to direct things into scientific entities made by man t in explain their observations
It's simple to me, if someone is pregnant to go inside her body and destroy what is inside and pull it out is wrong and completely unnatural
Doesn't matter what you define it as
You can say it's cognitive dissonance and etc etc, thats your attempt to counter my view and belief but it holds very little substance to me
You're making it far more complex than it needs to be, for me
Right, because its your opinion on the matter, you are free to have an opinion on the matter and to conduct your choices in life based on that opinion. I will not judge you on thinking that abortion is murder and choosing never to be involved in an abortion. That is you and your partner's choice in the matter, based on your opinions and beliefs.
But when you argue that it's objectively wrong and openly judge people who have a different opinion on it than you, you better have a philosophically consistent argument for why you feel justified in directing your beliefs and opinions and the judgement that comes with it onto others, especially if you're going to be openly angry and agressive about it (suggesting people kill themselves).
This is particularly important, because you were the one pitching a hissy-fit earlier in this same thread about someone judging you as selfish based on your opinion. If you had taken that judgement and not gotten all butthurt about it, then you could argue some sort of semi-logical justification for the righteous anger and judgement, because you could peacefully accept judgement yourself.
But you didn't, you have a philosophically inconsistent argument that you are using to try and argue an objective moral truth and passing judgement to others based on that shitty argument, which completely contradicts the bullshit you were whining about earlier when people weren't open-minded and tolerant of opinions that they don't agree with.
As someone said earlier, you are a buffoon.
For instance, why is it unnatural to remove a single cell from a person's body, but perfectly fine to remove a cancerous tumor, or a ruptured appendix? What about your beliefs gives that particular cell or blob of flesh a charge of murder if removed, but removing cancer cells is just medicine. I want to know how you reconcile this in your head, not just repeating that "if I magically know what cell is being killed, then it's objectively wrong and counts as murder". I will bet that you can't, and if you can't, then your truth is not objective, and you're just being a dick when you pass judgement on others for having a different opinion.
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,194
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
#28124040 - 01/04/23 09:02 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enkidu said: You can be sick and not go to the doctor
I was sick multiple times last year and got covid at least once and didn't go to a doctor I'm still strong as an ox
You're telling me I need to have understanding for someone killing a baby and to me that's not possible
You're taking a babies life
There is no "I wouldn't do it but I'll sit and watch it and have empathy for the people doing it"
It's not just them, it's about the new person they created
If your underage daughter gets raped by a gang of AIDS riden meth heads and she gets pregnant with a AIDS infected meth heads baby you gonna make her raise it? No abortion allowed? Bc thay shit really happens IRL, it might happen to your own family
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: trees] 1
#28124043 - 01/04/23 09:06 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Unpop op: all non criminal(by that, again, I'm just talking about rapist/psycho/gang/pedo/etc.) families should have at least 1 accessible firearm in their house with a fingerprint gun safe if they have kids.
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
Edited by spirit_shadow (01/04/23 09:07 AM)
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trees


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,194
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow] 1
#28124053 - 01/04/23 09:14 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Unpop opinion:
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: trees]
#28124054 - 01/04/23 09:14 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
trees said:
Quote:
Enkidu said: You can be sick and not go to the doctor
I was sick multiple times last year and got covid at least once and didn't go to a doctor I'm still strong as an ox
You're telling me I need to have understanding for someone killing a baby and to me that's not possible
You're taking a babies life
There is no "I wouldn't do it but I'll sit and watch it and have empathy for the people doing it"
It's not just them, it's about the new person they created
If your underage daughter gets raped by a gang of AIDS riden meth heads and she gets pregnant with a AIDS infected meth heads baby you gonna make her raise it? No abortion allowed? Bc thay shit really happens IRL, it might happen to your own family
Yeah that's fucked
What a disgusting horrible thing to happen and experience
Not sure what I would do but on that one I wouldn't be holding much against them on their choice
It's more so the widespread complete slefishbess and lack of taking any accountability or responsibility and promoting it widespread
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Enkidu]
#28124055 - 01/04/23 09:15 AM (1 year, 24 days ago) |
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You have good points in there Jean I will come back and read all of it, you didn't type in vain
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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