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OfflineNonagon
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: TheStallionMang] * 3
    #28537542 - 11/10/23 05:34 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)



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Edited by Nonagon (11/10/23 05:35 PM)


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Nonagon] * 1
    #28537556 - 11/10/23 05:47 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

We should just eradicate all dogs and start over.  There are still some wolves around.


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OfflineNonagon
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: ballsalsa] * 4
    #28537565 - 11/10/23 05:50 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Sadly that would just restart the cycle of man selectively breeding them into pugs


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #28537578 - 11/10/23 05:57 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
We should just eradicate all dogs and start over.  There are still some wolves around.



Start from foxes and then there's a cap on the size so they're safer

:kummeli:


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Nonagon]
    #28537584 - 11/10/23 06:01 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Nonagon said:
Sadly that would just restart the cycle of man selectively breeding them into pugs



Then inevitably we get the pughle and golden bull.


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OfflineNonagon
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28537593 - 11/10/23 06:05 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

PugBull™


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Nonagon]
    #28537594 - 11/10/23 06:06 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

The Buglle?

Pug Bulldog


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: psi] * 1
    #28537599 - 11/10/23 06:08 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
We should just eradicate all dogs and start over.  There are still some wolves around.



Start from foxes and then there's a cap on the size so they're safer

:kummeli:




I like the idea.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28537628 - 11/10/23 06:27 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

They'd probably still end up with this though honestly



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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: stareatclouds] * 2
    #28537702 - 11/10/23 07:26 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
I'd be willing to accept the "annoyed" explanation if you'd hadn't been a condescending dick to everyone who posted any opposing opinion, or thought process to you. It downright illogical to get upset about people disagreeing with you on an opinion that you labeled unpopular, so your reactions up to this point make you look like an idiot, as you so eloquently put it.




How annoyed am I allowed to be when we're discussing a serious topic that involves needless child deaths and I have to deal with people like you? To recap, you came in professing the absolute dumbest stance possible in defense of the problematic dogs we're discussing. I pointed out how stupid your stance was in general, but also how it literally made zero sense from the standpoint of the test. Sorry, but if you can't even be bothered to ensure you're not posting complete idiocy on this, I am not going to take your opinion seriously.


Quote:

You have consistently laid out opposing logic across different arguments, and have cherry-picked from available data in favor of your opinions. When confronted with an obvious inconsistency or inaccuracy in your approach, you ignore it, and have yet to point to any real data, or attempted to address what you claim are salient points, with anything other than insults and instructions for others to consider that they might be wrong. We are all just concluding what we can from the information you've given us, and what we can find in the public space. If we are all so ignorant, then please provide the information that we need to be as smart and well-informed on the subject as you. If you want change so bad, then do what it takes to illicit that change. If not, stfu already.




Um, I haven't laid out ANY opposing logic and zero data has been cherry-picked. Again, you don't even fucking understand your own sources, and it shouldn't be my job to clean up after you.

The instructions were, "Hey, before you ask the same 40 stupid questions that EVERY PIT APOLOGIZE PIVOTS TO, maybe you can read this short page that already addresses everything you're going to ask. If you'd done that prior, you wouldn't be wasting my time (and your own brain cells) spouting off misinformation about the ATTS shit. Did you have a chance to read up on that yet and recognize how dumb your stance was?

The data, which can be found in links I've provided, is there for you to read. But you clearly don't understand the data, or how it's collected, or anything so I'm not wiling to waste MORE of my time. You think hundreds of violent deaths is worth shrugging off because it's not enough. Given that I have a functioning brain, I can recognize the risk vs. reward with these dogs is dangerous out of whack. I shouldn't have to convince adults that 100 good experiences with an animal isn't worth 1 child being horribly injured and having a before/after date in his timeline.

The data is out there with a simple Google search. It isn't even debated that pits lead all the stats I referenced. I have linked people REPEATEDLY to the FAQ and encouraged them to read it. If you need me to coax you further, I'm tapping out now. Go read the fucking FAQ and all the links provided, just as I have, and then maybe we can talk. Go read basics on selective breeding, as well. You haven't responded to anything I've said, it's just rambling.

Until then, I don't have the energy to wipe your ass for you and explain basic things like the ATTS test. You appear to be an idiot.




For someone who is so quick to throw out insults about intelligence and knowing what is going on, you make an awful lot of mistakes here.

You're confusing me with Sulfurshelfsean and his comments about the ATTS. I am not that person. Try to keep up, buddy.

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
The "some sources" that say 1.7% are all from the woman I referenced earlier who incorrectly (and possibly purposely) combined multiple conditions which AREN'T intersex to get that number. So no, it isn't anywhere near 1.7% as the statsforgender.org link clearly points out if you read it. Please also read the following response to it and stop regurgitating this blatantly incorrect stat. .018% is accurate.



You originally quoted it at 0.001%, which is why I have continuously pointed out that you've been incapable of providing accurate data while, even in this response, being a condescending asshole to people. Hence my suggestions about checking yourself and considering that you might be mistaken, before insulting other people and their intelligence. :cookiemonster:


Quote:

stareatclouds said:
To be clear, I am referring to people who insist trans-folk are "born in the wrong body" or have this brain/body mixup that explains their persistent dysphoria. There is no science to support that and it's dangerous misinformation. You are conflating this with intersex conditions, which are absolutely rooted in physical and genetic anomalies that can require serious intervention.



This was your "salient" point the whole time? All that BS back-and-forth, ad-hominems, and tangent arguments...for some comment on how an analogy used to explain what gender dysphoria feels like to people who don't experience the condition, is scientifically inaccurate...and think that people are using said analogy as misinformation to convince children to get gender reassignment procedures?

You do realize that an individual requires a Gender Dysphoria or Gender Incongruence diagnosis by a licensed therapist before puberty blockers or hormonal therapy is even an option, right?

You also realize that there are official Standards Of Care (SOC) developed by an international, interdisciplinary, non-profit group of medical professionals, and that those SOCs are adopted by all major medical organizations in the US and around the world (including the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Psychological Association, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the Society for Adolescent Health and Medicine, the World Medical Association,and the World Health organization).

These SOCs cover the actual nuance associated with gender-affirming care for children, adolescents, adults, intersex, and even eunuchs. This nuance includes the acknowledgment that minors have more fluid ideas about gender that may not result in a long-term state of transgender, and acknowledgement that some minors may not be in a state to understand or give consent for partially or irreversible procedures. These SOCs do not consider prepubescent children to be eligible to receive medical intervention as part of gender-affirming care. Similarly, adolescent medical/surgical intervention is considered permissible only when a strict set of conditions are met, which include a ICD-11 diagnosis of gender incongruence, a long and persistent experience of gender dysphoria, a mental health evaluation to ensure that the child is mature, informed, and mentally stable enough to provide consent for the procedure, and has to have been on hormonal therapy for a certain amount of time.

This ultimately does track with my original response to your "unpopular opinion" that you seem to have conflated with a popular opinion and/or objective moral/ethical reality.

I ultimately agree with your idealistic statement that, if teachers/parents/healthcare professionals are teaching kids that people are sometimes born with a brain full of cells carrying XX chromosomes existing in a body of cells carrying XY chromosomes, and that if you feel like that, its medically necessary that we chop off your dick as soon as possible...then yea that's morally wrong and super fucked up.

But I think what is actually going on with this situation is that, as you put it in an earlier post, a "very insignificant statistical outlier" sub-population of people under 18 are receiving gender-affirming care, the administration of which adheres to a very well-thought-out standard of care, developed by a group of world-authorities on the subject, in an effort to give the care that is truly needed, and not willy-nilly chopping up the genitalia of brainwashed children. Additionally, there is enough peer-reviewed evidence on regret towards receiving gender-affirming care, and psychological well-being for trans-gender youth with and without appropriate gender-affirming care, that I personally think that the potential for good using this well-developed and tightly-regulated approach, outweighs the potential for poor outcomes, and therefore my opinion on the subject differs from yours.

See how easy it is for me to respond to you in a productive way when I know what you're actually trying to say, rather than just responding to your accusations of not knowing what I'm talking about, sometimes related to posts that I didn't even make?Maybe take a chill pill and consider that a little effort on your part to explain yourself without being a condescending dickhead, will probably result in more productive conversations with others. Its advice that I've found useful in all but the most extreme situations.


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OfflineNonagon
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 3
    #28537795 - 11/10/23 08:42 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

UO

I refer to people by their preferred pronouns because I’d expect the same, and it doesn’t inconvenience me in any way. And ultimately I just have no reason to give a shit what equipment anyone else was born with in their pants.


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Nonagon]
    #28537799 - 11/10/23 08:49 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

UO
Nonagon’s UO shouldn’t be an UO.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: stareatclouds]
    #28537814 - 11/10/23 09:05 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

The label of pitbull is not a breed, but a blanket term used to visually identify any medium-sized dog with characteristics common in bulldog-type dog breeds.

This is has been shown to affect bite statistics by biasing all mixed-breed, bulldog-type-dominant dogs as simply "pitbull", and genetic testing on offending dogs is rarely performed for the sake of accurate bite statistics.



The american pit-bull terrier is an actual breed, and sources of DNA testing of dogs, and veterinary records, rank it among one of the most significant portion of the american dog population and gene pool, at ~20% of all dogs in the US being of >50% american pit-bull terrier by DNA. ~2% are Staffordshire Terrier by the same metrics, and these are just 2 of the 4 bulldog-type dog breeds that can present "pitbull" characteristics in mixed-breed situations.

Additionally, the American Veterinary Medical Association 53% of non-stray dogs in the US are considered mixed-breed.

This means that there is a minimum 22% of all dogs in the US containing "pitbull" dominant genetics, and when considering those with "pitbull" genetics (which can present as "pitbull" appearance, even if below 50% genetics, the number of "pitbull"-presenting dogs is probably larger than 22% of the US dog population.



Oddly enough, overall bite incidences attributed to "pitbull" fall right into 22.5%.

This is right in line with the average rate expected, if all breeds were considered equally likely to bite, because then one would expect the bite rates to roughly match the population % that the dogs are binned into.



"Pitbulls" have a bite force of 235 PSI, and were generally bred as specific-application hunting dogs.

I can't argue with this specific point. Although "pitbulls" don't have the highest bite force of any "breed", and don't come anywhere close to the bite force of the top breeds for bite force (the Kangal is reported at 734 PSI, and the "Pitbull" is 13th in a list of "breeds" with the strongest bite force), they are still in the top 20 list. So its not surprising that, when they do bite, the incident is more likely to lead to more damage to the person being bit.



There are other, less common breeds that are bred from bulldog-type dog breeds, including the American Bulldog, the Boxer, and The American Pitbull Terrier, to be more aggressive, but not all bulldog-type dogs are specifically bred as killing machines, and most bulldog-type dogs in the US today are not purebred.



The National Canine Research Council has reported that the dog bite incidence rates in general have decreased significantly from 1972 to 2011, with major cities like LA seeing less than 21% of the total number of bite incidences from 1972 in 2011, despite the licensed dog to human population ratio being 66% of the what it was in 1972, in 2011.

This means that, the total number of bites is dropping faster than the dog-to-human ratio, and with an increasing human population, that means that the bite rate is dropping even faster than that.



Since 1980, there have been 278 child fatalities associated with "pitbulls"

There are currently almost 90 million dogs in the US

At least 19.8 Million of those dogs are bulldog-type dominant

The average lifespan of a healthy "pitbull" is 12 to 14 years

This gets to the meat-and-potatoes of why I consider your pitbull argument to not be the optimal or moral solution:
- Assuming a steady rate of fatal child encounters (which is conservative, considering the bite rate has been dropping since the 70s), and assuming that all "pitbull-like" dogs in america are exactly 14 years of age, that results in all currently-living "pitbulls" to be responsible for 91 child deaths (rounding up).
- Most of the time, dogs that kill a child are caught and euthanized, so we'll assume a single dog can only kill one child per lifetime.
- This means that you're arguing for the extermination of nearly 20 million dogs, for the crimes of 91 dogs.
- In the context of severe injuries resulting from dog bites, you're arguing for the extermination of nearly 20 million dogs for the crimes of ~104,800 dogs, or roughly 189 innocent dogs per aggressive dog.
- In the context of total people (adults and children) killed by "pitbulls" in that 14 year period, the effective homicide rate, or the number of humans killed by "pitbulls" per 100k "pitbulls", is <42% of the number of humans killed by humans, per 100k humans.
- In this same 14 year period, 152 children under the age of 5 choked to death on grapes. By your logic, we should probably consider eradication of grapes "because the children".

Generally, I do not consider a threat that is 40% lower of a risk of children choking on grapes to be worthy of the forced extermination of nearly 20 million individuals, a minimum of 19.7 Million of which are completely innocent and possibly very well-tempered and loved pets. Kind of the opposite of my stance on the gender-affirming care, where the benefits of getting rid of all pitbulls is far outweighed by the potential loss of life.

I still don't argue with you that "pitbulls", like other larger dogs bred to being guard/hunting dogs, the potential damage caused by the bite is more severe than other dogs, but the data available just doesn't seem to line up with the conclusions you're coming to, when you really look into it.


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Invisiblestareatclouds
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28537818 - 11/10/23 09:07 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Oh, sorry. I'm confusing my morons. You're the other moron who keeps posting complete nonsense about pits. I'm noticing a trend here. Oh, look, another idiotic pitbull post with incorrect info that argues totally worthless points. This moron quoting literal propaganda from pitbullinfo[dot]org. Complete dipshit shoehorning in wonderful dogs like boxers when we aren't discussing "bully breeds" in the first place. You have a really tough time understanding the actual discussion, man.

Yeah, yeah. I know. Why don't I waste hours discussing already settled issues with morons who can't understand it anyway? If only there were a FAQ that addresses all of the idiotic talking points you're coming up with that I could point you to. Oh well.

Spoiler alert: losers who defend pitbulls only have a handful of talking points because none of the actual relevant data supports anything they claim. So an FAQ taking a shit on all of it is already built that you can read. This is why every loser website paid for by an actual pit lobby (seriously) uses the same tactics: invent stats to downplay the issue and argue irrelevant points:

"NOBODY KNOWS HOW MANY DOGS THERE ARE SO WE CAN'T TELL HOW DANGEROUS PITS ARE!"

Irrelevant metric used for convenience, although every available dataset where a city tracks all dog bites + releases licensing data overwhelming drives home what is obvious: pits are the fucking worst offenders.

"BUT EVEN IF WE CAN'T TRACK POPULATIONS, THERE ARE ACTUALLY 2 TRILLION PITBULLS IN EVERY CITY, THUS THERE IS TECHNICALLY NO DANGER BECAUSE THE 284 CHILDREN MAULED HORRIFICALLY TO DEATH ARE AN INSIGNIFICANT % AND DON'T MATTER!"

Completely inflated numbers they make up to put other dogs ahead of pits on "aggression" (which is another irrelevant metric).

"DID YOU KNOW PITBULLS DON'T HAVE A LOCKJAW OR THE MOST POWERFUL BITE IN THE WORLD?"

Who gives a fuck?

Back to your awful posts on gender ideology:

I correctly shot down the completely inflated 1.7% statistic and immediately said, "intersex people are like .001% of the population and are not at all what is discussed with gender ideology." The salient point there is, "You are quoting bad statistics to argue a topic that has nothing to do with my opinion in the first place." I knew the person responsible for the inflated quoted because I'd already read about it. I mentioned she is the moron responsible for people believing humans, a sexually dimorphic species with a sex binary, have 5 sexes. You probably believe that shit, too.

How you think it's a flex that the real numbers and data, which absolutely support MY point, aren't the exact same as my invented figure is beyond me. Yeah, bro, I am not re-researching numbers that aren't relevant to the topic. The entire point is that you aren't arguing what MY OPINION WAS and you're not even using correct statistics to discuss it. I don't give a shit about an extremely small SLIVER of a population that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY OPINION WE ARE DISCUSSING.

I am doing my best to corral you into the right ballpark.

Quote:

This was your "salient" point the whole time? All that BS back-and-forth, ad-hominems, and tangent arguments...for some comment on how an analogy used to explain what gender dysphoria feels like to people who don't experience the condition, is scientifically inaccurate...




The back and forth is due to you completely misinterpreting what I said and ranting for an hour about it. You realize that, right? You interjected with a rant about intersex people, which I immediately clarified is not what I'm talking about. The original opinion doesn't even imply intersex, but gender ideology.

How do you think you're not looking like a moron when you said, "I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING BACKING UP WHAT YOU SAID" even though I am 100% correct that 1.7% is nowhere near the true number. I quoted the reasons WHY the number if fucked up AND the person responsible, because unlike you, I'm not Googling shit on the fly to support my idiotic contrarian stances. It's obvious I threw out a random tiny %, much, much less than 1.7%, simply to illustrate how far off you were. And bravo, you Googled and realized I am correct. The 1.7% wasn't really 1.65% and I didn't call it 0%, doofus. You were 100x off on the wrong topic. Bravo.


Quote:

and think that people are using said analogy as misinformation to convince children to get gender reassignment procedures?




No, I didn't say or imply that. Perhaps you'd like to start off clarifying my position so you're no longer ranting about irrelevant shit? I know you seem to love that, the whole strawman thing, but I don't read those replies.

It's an analogy that people take literal, you mope.


Edited by stareatclouds (11/10/23 09:20 PM)


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 2
    #28537820 - 11/10/23 09:08 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)



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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: stareatclouds] * 1
    #28537829 - 11/10/23 09:20 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

stareatclouds said:
No, I didn't say or imply that. Perhaps you'd like to start off clarifying my position so you're no longer ranting about irrelevant shit? I know you seem to love that, the whole strawman thing, but I don't read those replies.

It's an analogy that people take literal, you mope.



You are choosing to engage with topics that you later claim aren't what you're talking about, yet have, on multiple occasions, refused to clarify wtf you are actually talking about, while repeatedly responding to topics you  previously labelled "off-topic". I have admitted multiple times that I'm responding to you, based on the information you provide, and you refuse to clarify. Instead, you throw insults and claim that I don't know what I'm talking about, all while throwing out incorrect information. It is hypocritical for you to pass judgement on other's knowledge of the subject while refusing to clarify or correct in them using accurate information, and your refusal to clarify or even acknowledge these multiple calls for you to clarify or otherwise inform us of your vast knowledge on the subject makes it seem like you're cherry-picking what you want to discuss, and then when backed into corner, you just go "no that's not what I'm talking about, idiot", and shift to another topic until you deem it "off-topic".

So I'm asking you, pretty please, clarify your message, or stfu about everything else. If you're going to bash people for being off-topic, then how about staying on-topic and clarifying what that topic is.

Thanks.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenesisCorrupted]
    #28537831 - 11/10/23 09:21 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:




Death machine.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 1
    #28537832 - 11/10/23 09:21 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Quote:

GenesisCorrupted said:




:pipesmoke:

I can't wait for him to tell me that I'm off-topic again.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Nonagon] * 2
    #28537839 - 11/10/23 09:27 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

Unpop op: everyone should shoot a gun at least once in their life :awehigh:


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OfflineGenesisCorruptedS
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow] * 2
    #28537851 - 11/10/23 09:35 PM (2 months, 17 days ago)

As long as they respect it, and are taught how to be safe. Sure.


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