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Excess Taters
Highentist



Registered: 08/29/22
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: The Blind Ass] 2
#28135409 - 01/11/23 01:54 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: No one even knows what the fuck life is really always. The Religious, The Scientific, ie. Biologists, etc. define it through comparing and contrasting stuff with other stuff in, and around us that either can do or can't do a certain number of the same neat tricks in similar ways like us. Sure, we have some pretty well thought out parameters for what counts and doesn't but that and consciousness or Mind ~ forgive me~ Soul, are things that seem to be becoming more accessible to people via direct imminent yet transcendent experience giving more subjective Creedence to those aspects of Life and Humanity. ...Whatever it may or may not be.
Life is dope AF. Even when its pure hell and you're howling at the moon like a madman while ripping your hair out and sick as fuck, and hurting unimaginably badly inwardly and or outwardly - even then some essence of magical wonder, luster of life, remains unscathed. Even then. All the more easy to forget this simple fact when we've escaped into dirty nihilism or mired, fixed upon the concentration of absolute emptiness of all things existing atm in reality's casual web while we ebb-&-blow in it ourselves with everything else together all at once.
Sure, Life's hard as fuck - but compared to more olden days and older ways- things are pretty fucking fantastic despite the stupid fiction that things are exponentially worse than before (mostly due to more people being alive, there being more people connected and in communication thanks to the internet and mass media knowing black/dark/sad/angry/fear sells faster in the short term bc our more immediate survival parts of ourselves glance it all over for our own good. But then you look at your window from time to time despite all that- then on most days, and from most places, its not so bad, in fact - its pretty darn good.
Anyone saying its so bad is always free to off themselves immediately but I don't think anyone, or thing that's alive~ except for during exceedingly rare cases involving extreme suffering do so wholly voluntarily without any extra inner/outer influence/pressure.
Life is not dope as fuck. Life can be dope as fuck. It can also be hell. My dad has late stage cancer, he's going to die any day now, and honestly the sooner the better. I love my father, but he's in incredible pain every single day. He is on so many pills, methadone, oxycodone, gabapentin, etc etc etc. If death with dignity laws existed, he would be dead right now, and better for it. Suffering is not the goal of life, and when suffering becomes your life, your life becomes the problem. His goal right now is to walk his dog in a rascle type scooter, that would bring him a measure of happiness. The only thing he can do right now is drive short distances in his car, and even that's very risky due to his propensity to vomit and that he's on methadone, oxycodone, gabapentin, and various other drugs at all hours of the day.
I'm not saying that everyone healthy and happy shouldn't be alive, or would have been better off aborted. I acknowledge the reality that some lives are not worth living, this does not mean that I'm saying most or all lives are not worth living. Most lives are fine, generally preferable to nonexistance. Some lives are not fine, nor are they preferable to nonexistence, this is a simple fact. As we can screen embryos for more and more things, what disease is your threshhold for abortion being reasonably optimal?
Is this the line? Note, this occurs in 1/20,000 newborns, and we're a population of billions.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/baby-with-the-worst-disease-you-never-heard-of-105621658557.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADJHzgHMLppkKwnBo-XVD8_QOWzmzQZAe5LjvFmB0_Nr8ZjI-s4wGj51tLQz17wa-j_4NZh0btw6rU8U7kUGDE8KIi_v2z5MK1BqUl9Ccx9EBjDRfNRKrqCTlZFrw84dIARZO9PEFgNAIHvockMNzMbkWIeyQkFDDWzmFCgXeWXV
Beyond that, I agree with the scientists which hold not screening for preventable genetic diseases is problematic, and birthing a child with some of them is child abuse.
https://www.wired.com/2009/03/allowing-children-to-be-born-with-severe-disease-is-morally-equivalent-to-child-abuse-round-2/
Quote:
The argument is straightforward: allowing a child to be born with a disease that will result in a lifetime of suffering and premature death, when a simple screening test could prevent it, is completely morally equivalent to allowing a child to die of infection when effective antibiotics are freely available.
Naturally there are objections to embryo screening among religious conservatives who believe that inflicting severe disease on children is the will of God - but why does the prospect raise such unease among even the secular community? I share Le Page's puzzlement on this question, and would invite opponents to lay out any well-reasoned arguments against routine screening in the comments below.
Lastly, we can't forget the women. Child birth isn't a nothing event for a woman. It literally changes their physiology. Some women die from it. All of them have to live their entire lives with their child, or be burdened by abandoning it to an uncaring world. Rather than either of those options, aborting it makes a hell of a lot of sense. It's not like we don't have enough orphans in the world. Fix the orphan problem, let alone the childhood abuse related to foster homes problem, then talk about how many more babies women should be forced to have.
-------------------- If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start. First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub! The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs. Agar is easy, just do it. Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide Growing APE or PE? P9 pseudo casing tek
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
#28135419 - 01/11/23 02:07 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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GenericHero said:
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GenericHero said:
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Smellyhobbit said: Unpopular Opinion: the AK-47 should be people’s first rifle. Nothing I’ve ever handled is as reliable or easy to shoot.
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Sugabearcrisp said:
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GenericHero said: People change their minds. Circumstances change. People are bad at planning and implementing. What sounds good on theory, is often hard to implement in real life.
Just because something is theoretically viable outside the womb... It is still dependant on the mother's body to survive. How would one get it out? Surgery or induced labor? Could nothing go wrong between the point it becomes viable and the actual date of delivery? It doesn't seem that cut and dry to me.
As far as your statement:
"The point of viability continues to grow closer to the point of conception, eventually they will be one in the same. At that point it stops being fundamentally irrational as you say and life begins at conception."
Conception is when the egg is fertilized. Your first sentence makes me think you think it happens at the end of pregnancy. https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/11585-conception
No one is arguing that the fertilized egg is alive. I think the question is more when is it a person.
Exactly. When does a fertilized egg become a person and therefore not okay to terminate. My response to jlp was just to show it is rational to conceive of a future world where viability of a fertilized egg outside the womb is at the point of fertilization. We already conceive in the test tube and then implant, at some point we'll just skip the implant step and now when does life begin? 
Now something that was irrational before becomes rational to discuss.
In the future it may be the case that such processes are cheap and available to all. As of now, that isn't the case. And yes, you can grow a human outside of a person but it couldn't survive without support from the medical equipment and personnel required for such a thing. The same standards would seem to apply up until the point it could sustain its life on its own.
By the way, have you looked at a fertilized egg? I doubt you would find that thing relatable. It literally is just a bunch of cells. It doesn't start growing organs until the third week. A potential person? Sure, but that is philosophical territory.
Science had grown animals outside of the womb, but has never fully grown a human.
That you know of....they haven't publicly done it because of the whole can of shit it would unleash(does the clone equally own all of your property etc.) let alone the morality if it.
As to outside of the womb I'm sure that is possible as well.
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
Edited by spirit_shadow (01/11/23 02:08 PM)
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#28135513 - 01/11/23 03:29 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: ...that we know of or they tell us. I bet anything that a full human clone or 2 has been done and artificial womb births. Both combined more than likely.
Why would 'they' hide it? An artificial womb would be worth quite a lot. People spend beaucoup bucks for fertility treatments.
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halfass mycology
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135523 - 01/11/23 03:33 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Who said anything about clones?
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halfass mycology
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
#28135527 - 01/11/23 03:35 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Isn't it "illegal and unethical" due to "sincerely deeply held religious beliefs" and all that? A great deal of people who have some power and control would lose their minds not to mention voters if they approved of anything like cloning humans and making artificial womb clone babies. I'm pretty sure it would "go against the laws of god" or some other horse shit like that.
Edited by tyrannicalrex (01/11/23 03:38 PM)
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#28135531 - 01/11/23 03:39 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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If you were cloned at birth would you have the right to kill your clone at any time? Would it be legally allowed to lay with your wife/husband? Make legal/medical decisions on your behalf?
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
Edited by spirit_shadow (01/11/23 03:39 PM)
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#28135532 - 01/11/23 03:40 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I think there's been some mis communication. Artificial womb does not mean cloning.
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halfass mycology
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135533 - 01/11/23 03:40 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135534 - 01/11/23 03:40 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Smellyhobbit said: Unpopular Opinion: the AK-47 should be people’s first rifle. Nothing I’ve ever handled is as reliable or easy to shoot.
Fun to shoot, but I'd still say an AR-15 or 10/22 are better for learning on, and would pick an AR-15 over an AK-47 generally.
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
#28135535 - 01/11/23 03:41 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I know, but I'm sure they can be combined if they/scientists want.
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
#28135538 - 01/11/23 03:43 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
GenericHero said: I think there's been some mis communication. Artificial womb does not mean cloning.
I know but it made me think of clone g which made me think of these questions lol
As for the artificial womb some huge company or billionaire has probably patented it and any variation of it into oblivion to save for their piece of shit families/agendas.
-------------------- ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011 Ban lotto
Edited by spirit_shadow (01/11/23 03:44 PM)
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GenericHero
one howdy stranger


Registered: 07/07/20
Posts: 1,487
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135547 - 01/11/23 03:55 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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If they could do it, I feel strongly that we would know. I mentioned earlier about fertility treatments, here is some sauce. https://www.alliedmarketresearch.com/fertility-services-market#:~:text=The%20global%20fertility%20services%20market,16.1%25%20from%202021%20to%202031. Global market value 2021 20 billion Projected value for 2030 90 billion If you had the ability to make an artificial womb for humans, all that money would be yours.
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halfass mycology
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spirit_shadow
Feature not a bug



Registered: 08/15/11
Posts: 25,665
Last seen: 12 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero] 1
#28135549 - 01/11/23 03:56 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Maybe they are getting paid to NOT release it. I mean, it's just a hunch but that kind of technology would open the door for medical advancements that I believe big pharma wouldn't like too much. Curing people is not profitable.
Edited by spirit_shadow (01/11/23 03:57 PM)
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135551 - 01/11/23 03:57 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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I'm all for money but only honorable deeds to get it
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,563
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
#28135560 - 01/11/23 04:01 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Without oxygen and nutrients, certain hormones produced in the gut and brain, antibodies etc., you're not going to get healthy or even viable children. Lab grown babies in artificial wombs are probably not a thing even secretly.
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,177
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: PatrickKn]
#28135568 - 01/11/23 04:07 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
PatrickKn said: Without oxygen and nutrients, certain hormones produced in the gut and brain, antibodies etc., you're not going to get healthy or even viable children. Lab grown babies in artificial wombs are probably not a thing even secretly.
This, and the cost to keep that dialed in across the whole womb, compared to just paying someone to rent out their uterus for less than a year.
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire



Registered: 11/22/17
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I'll rent out my rectom for a year
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,177
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: gopher]
#28135635 - 01/11/23 04:53 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
gopher said: I'll rent out my rectom for a year
Government sponsored butt-babies are a real thing bro, I seen the reports
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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This is why I keep posting about this subject. FUCKERS!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/virginia-republicans-promised-a-reasonable-abortion-law-they-just-proposed-an-extreme-ban/ar-AA16eCTw?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=ce219a44060741f2afafe3bbe6c3d54d In addition to outlawing abortion long before viability, the proposal shares several features with the extreme abortion bans adopted by states like Louisiana and Texas. It contains extremely limited exceptions while exposing doctors to criminal liability for performing emergency abortions. In short, the ban would ensure that reproductive health care in Virginia is dictated by criminal law rather than patients and their physicians.
it shows voters exactly how Republicans plan to govern, should they seize control of the legislature in next year’s elections.
In every other way, however, this measure is unreasonable. For one thing, H.B. 2278 outlaws abortions well before viability, which occurs around 24 weeks. This new cutoff dramatically shortens the amount of time Virginians have to learn that they are pregnant and obtain an abortion.
A large number of fetal anomalies can only be detected after 15 weeks, when scans can show fetal organ structures. Anomalies discovered during this period, such as anencephaly and Trisomy 18, render a fetus “incompatible with life.” That means the fetus will die during birth or shortly thereafter, its brief life spent in terrible pain. Patients who continue their pregnancy after such a diagnosis face heightened risks of serious medical complications.
H.B. 2278’s lack of an exception for even severe fetal anomalies is surely no accident. The anti-abortion movement scorns such exceptions, just as it opposes exceptions for rape and incest. Movement lobbyists support laws that force every patient to carry a pregnancy through birth even if the fetus has a “life-limiting condition.” Although many couples wish to spare their child the agony of a brief, torturous life, H.B. 2278 would prevent them from making that decision.
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Enkidu
"No-Such-Person"


Registered: 07/09/16
Posts: 10,698
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#28135717 - 01/11/23 05:59 PM (1 year, 17 days ago) |
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Completely over the whole abortion thing
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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