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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Registered: 08/15/11
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero] * 1
    #28135148 - 01/11/23 10:29 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

How about everyone just kills me? Unite for a single cause!


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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #28135154 - 01/11/23 10:33 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Spirit, I will literally bite the throat off a dog to save you if I have to.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineSmellyhobbit
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #28135156 - 01/11/23 10:34 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

A small dog though the bigger ones are scary.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:



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OfflineExcess Taters
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 1
    #28135163 - 01/11/23 10:37 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
How about everyone just kills me? Unite for a single cause!




Are you vegetarian? Because I was thinking about a dietary change, and from now on I should probably only eat vegetarians.  I'm part native American, so we gotta use every part of the buffalo, and I can't waste what will be a perfectly cooked body once we've tenderized the meat.  Though perhaps vegetarians are more tender naturally, it'll be interesting to find out after we kill him.

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Spirit, I will literally bite the throat off a dog to save you if I have to.




This is good to know, if I hadn't read this I might have made a mistake.


--------------------
If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start.  First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub! 
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs.  Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE?  P9 pseudo casing tek


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Invisibletrees
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Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 9,194
Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
    #28135170 - 01/11/23 10:41 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

oursoulsinmotion said:
Unpopular opinion: China will take over the world via Constant covid variant "leaks" long before tiktok was mapping out all our physical shit they had spies @ resturants



Once i learned that China is one of the biggest dependors of imported of food and imported agriculture inputs, they cant feed themselves without outside support, they have become much less scary. The threat of China being able to  taking over the world a the facade theyve made for themselves


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: larry.fisherman] * 1
    #28135172 - 01/11/23 10:43 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
People say don't kill babies, then instead of addressing it they present little exceptions which essentially changes the conversation when they know what it's about



Fetus != baby, unless you can prove that they are the same thing deserving of the same level of personhood, please see my post about relative personhood. If you aren't willing to address the argument, then you're argument of objective truth is meaningless. :shrug:

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
an adult should be able to control themselves



For someone who judges others on hypotheticals, you should know that what adults should be able to do != what adults actually do.

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
people do have some responsibility to the human race when idiots are breeding like rabbits



So...you think its bad that humans are breeding too much? I wonder what could help out with that :strokebeard:

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Like you can make hypothetical situations and people that don't exist but the actual individual in question that isn't allowed to exist doesn't matter



In 1996, an estimated 32,100 pregnancies resulted from rape in the US.

Birth defects are the leading cause of infant deaths, accounting for 20% of all infant deaths.

In 2020, 861 women were identified as having died of maternal causes in the United States

One-in-four U.S. parents say they’ve struggled to afford food or housing in the past year

Who are these hypothetical, non-existent people you're talking about, again?


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The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #28135176 - 01/11/23 10:45 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Kill yourself then, parasite. You're not contributing to your race.



Dude, fuck off with that shit. :nono:


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Posts: 36,294
Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
    #28135179 - 01/11/23 10:49 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Kill yourself then, parasite. You're not contributing to your race.



Dude, fuck off with that shit. :nono:



Why? Clearly it's to make a point. If you can't "get that" then you're as much of a problem than whatever you perceive me to be. You don't see the eugenicism in declaring a human parasitic? Who gets to decide when someone becomes a parasite? Where does that end? If I take a bucket of viable eggs with baby chicks in them and start chucking them against the wall y'all gonna cry. Absolutely clueless.


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: larry.fisherman] * 1
    #28135190 - 01/11/23 10:56 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Kill yourself then, parasite. You're not contributing to your race.



Dude, fuck off with that shit. :nono:



Why? Clearly it's to make a point. If you can't "get that" then you're as much of a problem than whatever you perceive me to be. You don't see the eugenicism in declaring a human parasitic? Who gets to decide when someone becomes a parasite? Where does that end? If I take a bucket of viable eggs with baby chicks in them and start chucking them against the wall y'all gonna cry. Absolutely clueless.




And you're being lazy and claiming everyone's arguments are dumb or clueless, without backing it up with anything resembling an argument. All you're doing is claiming things that aren't true, refusing to explain it, contradicting yourself, and calling people names and telling them to kill themselves to "make a point".

You're just as part of the problem as anyone here :cookiemonster:


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The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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OfflineSugabearcrisp
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 1
    #28135192 - 01/11/23 10:57 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

Jean-Luc Picard said:
Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
If you strongly believe life begins at conception or maybe viability outside the womb then abortion after that point is clearly murder and society as a whole has an interest in preventing the murder of its members. You do not have to be a religous zealot to come to this conclusion.




This assertion may be valid for viability outside the womb (and thus argue for term limits on unrestricted abortion access), but as I've already covered earlier, it is fundamentally irrational (and therefore cannot be argued as a viable concept for codifying into a law for every citizen) for anyone to believe that life begins at conception and categorize all abortion at any stage as baby murder, without having to completely change the way society works, in a way that no society has ever worked before.

Unless someone here can address all of the philosophical inconsistencies brought up in my previous post, and prove that life at conception is actually a global moral argument that should shape societal laws, and not a philosophically incompatible, belief-based set of opinions that should only be allowed to govern an individual's choices on that subject, then we should really stop justifying anybody who holds those beliefs and actively tries to impose them on everyone. :shrug:




The point of viability continues to grow closer to the point of conception, eventually they will be one in the same. At that point it stops being fundamentally irrational as you say and life begins at conception.



I guess I should have been more clear, I was willing to concede "viability outside the womb" as a term limit simply because it is generally agreed to coincide with the end of the 2nd trimester. If you go back and read my post on relative personhood, this is also the time when we know the uniquely human portions of the brain develop and start becoming active.

But your current argument seems to be implying that, with technological advancement, we'll be able to keep a fetus alive outside of the womb earlier and earlier, eventually legitimizing the life at conception argument. You're arbitrarily picking how far you extend your argument in order to attain the desired outcome.

If we assume your argument is true, and that we can eventually prove life at conception via artificially sustaining a fetus outside of the womb with medical technology, then why not extend that argument further? We can sustain human eggs and sperm in nutrient solution, we can artificially combine these in test tubes, we can sustain and cultivate the human cells that act as the precursors to the human egg and sperm, they all technically have the potential to create a new human life...so why not consider masturbation or menstruation murder? Why not consider the act of using contraception an act to prevent the potential baby's life from happening, and consider that some form of murder, since the cellular components of conception ultimately die during that act? Why not argue for the removal of choice of the parents to conceive, and force them to create a life under penalty of law every time they ovulate/ejaculate? Where do we logically draw the line for the potential for human life and the medical ability to sustain that potential outside of the parent's bodies? Do you see the fallacy of the argument now?

Another extension of this argument is on the opposite end of life. When a human body has no detectable brain activity, that body is considered "brain dead" and is treated as though it is dead. The brain is still there, the brain cells are still alive, and we currently have the medical technology to keep the physical cells of that body alive for years. There is also documented evidence of brain dead individuals regaining brain activity after a span of time, demonstrating the non-zero potential for them to continue to be alive in the eyes of the law and of society. The next of kin or power of attorney is generally given the power to decide whether to let the physical body die by taking it off of life support.

A human fetus does not have a brain for weeks after conception, and no detectable brain activity for several weeks more. If we extend your argument of viability outside of the womb to this situation, then in order to be philosophically consistent, we need to keep every brain-dead person hooked up to life support indefinitely, and force the next of kin to bear the emotional and financial burden of keeping this person alive, because to do anything else would be considered murder.

And for the 2nd time, I've already covered this in a previous post. Please, for the sake of not having to re-type all of this several times, go back and read my post on relative personhood. I'd be more than happy to discuss any additional arguments that haven't already been covered there.

Finally, to be clear, I don't care what you personally think about abortion. As I told Enkidu, all of my arguments are framed within the context of why pro-lifers who advocate for legal bans on abortions cannot do so without admitting that they seek to infringe on the rights of others based on assumptions of truth (usually religious assumptions, but not necessarily) that cannot be proven to be objective truth to all citizens of that society.




Lol you realize I replied to trex and you jumped in to reply to me. I am not obligated to go back and read your personhood post nor is my opinion obligated to respond to your personhood post that I didn't read or respond to.

You have made reference brain function in this post as a criteria for personhood, seems similar to the viability argument criteria and I am not looking to get in the weeds on either.

What I will say is that people can disagree on where that point is and both be rational in their position and correct in their value system.

Back to my original point in the legal context while americans by and large may support abortion access with limited restriction, myself included, our elected officials tasked with making laws have declined to define the point of personhood instead relying on a supreme court decision which was dubious 50 years ago.

All your emotional anger at the supreme court doesn't change that.

This modern progessive belief that courts and executive action should be the means to see their will done is as stupid as being a religous zealot praying to a magic sky daddy for a good harvest. You have just replaced your omnipotent mystical being with an omnipotent government


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 4
    #28135200 - 01/11/23 11:02 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

lul wut? Laws affect people in real ways. Sky daddy doesn't.


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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
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Registered: 07/11/18
Posts: 21,288
Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero] * 1
    #28135204 - 01/11/23 11:07 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

GenericHero said:
Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Kill yourself then, parasite. You're not contributing to your race.




Don't tell people to kill themselves. Shame on you.




:lol: doesnt support abortion, but totally supports suicide

:themoreyouknow:


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Sugabearcrisp] * 2
    #28135238 - 01/11/23 11:30 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Lol you realize I replied to trex and you jumped in to reply to me. I am not obligated to go back and read your personhood post nor is my opinion obligated to respond to your personhood post that I didn't read or respond to.




I responded to you with conditional agreement and disagreement, and then clarified that I had made the mistake of conceding a point without perfectly clarity, and then clarified it. You chose to engage with me, and then presented arguments that had already been covered on this topic in this same thread, that were posted after trex's original post about abortion. You are certainly not obligated to do any particular thing in this thread, but if you choose to engage with me on the subject, and start forcing me to re-type things, I'm going to refer you back to posts that already cover those arguments and expect you to reconcile the problems with your argument in order for me to take your argument seriously. I was even polite enough to go back and find that post and link it for you.

If you want to jump in, say your piece, engage with me until your arguments no longer hold water, and then back out again, that's your right to do so and a lot of others in here do just that. Like I said before, I'm fine with you having an opinion that I don't agree with, I just thought we were actually debating the rationality of said opinions in the context of forcing it onto everyone else. :shrug:

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
You have made reference brain function in this post as a criteria for personhood, seems similar to the viability argument criteria and I am not looking to get in the weeds on either.



But they are fundamentally linked to the crux of the abortion argument. I would be glad to run through a few thought experiments that will highlight the difference between these two metrics for you to chew on, and of course you are not obligated to respond or anything. I don't want to upset you or anything. This is just the topic at hand, and I think a lot of people simply don't think about it enough to move beyond belief and emotional responses to challenges to those beliefs.

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
What I will say is that people can disagree on where that point is and both be rational in their position and correct in their value system.



I agree with you within a limited scope. Until I see otherwise, I disagree with that statement in the scope of life at conception and the support of abortion bans. Since I haven't seen any argument for abortion bans that doesn't come with some provable cognitive dissonance, I would welcome any argument that can do that.

Quote:

Sugabearcrisp said:
Back to my original point in the legal context while americans by and large may support abortion access with limited restriction, myself included, our elected officials tasked with making laws have declined to define the point of personhood instead relying on a supreme court decision which was dubious 50 years ago.

All your emotional anger at the supreme court doesn't change that.

This modern progessive belief that courts and executive action should be the means to see their will done is as stupid as being a religous zealot praying to a magic sky daddy for a good harvest. You have just replaced your omnipotent mystical being with an omnipotent government



I think you're mixing me up with someone else here. Yes, I am disappointed by the overturn of Roe v. Wade in the courts, but I am also upset with congress not closing that loophole a long time ago because they were scared of the fallout from the religious components of their voterbase. I am also upset with the real people (no argument of relative personhood) that are suffering as a result of this mutual inaction.

However, the fact remains that all-out abortion bans infringe on the bodily autonomy of the mother (who's personhood is complete and known), the philosophical underpinnings of such bans directly conflict with the philosophical underpinnings of existing law and societal norms, and the implications of a society accepting such blatant contradiction opens up the path for an expansion of rights infringement in future legislation. I think its important that people understand that, the only way that abortion ban legislation can be interpreted as constitutional, is if one accepts or ignores the philosophical inconsistencies (and thereby irrationality) of the legislation. This is not only objectively wrong, but dangerous at a societal governance level.

I apologize if I have indicated anything different.


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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OfflineExcess Taters
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 4
    #28135276 - 01/11/23 11:55 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Picardman, I want you to know that you're probably my favorite poster in this thread.  I tend to engage with the collective rather than individuals as I reckon these individuals tend not to change their minds and only argue dishonestly with so much deflection and bullshit that the frustration of the engagement on an individual level is not worth the potential education of said individual.  Irrational religious beliefs are hardly ever swayed by rational reason based beliefs.  You know all of this, obviously, yet fight the good fight without succumbing to frustration and venting, instead defaulting to impeccable logic.

I can do that with many subjects, but when it comes to the actual word freedom, and human rights, which is what this issue is about, I get emotional.  I get pissed, I fucking hate the idea that some person convinced of something equivalent to the flying spaghetti monster without fun, wants to use their addled brain to impose their will on others.  It's appalling. 

These people scream for freedom and no government overreach, but the government better make sure that woman is forced to carry that man's child, or else they're not doing their job.  It's so contradictory and clearly absurd, that it's only people who still believe the nonsense their parents told them about the perfect sky man who made everything, who are actually convinced of these bullshit arguments.

Let alone the idea that the will of the people should be ignored so that a minority view can be imposed on the majority.  America is supposed to be a representative democracy, the point is to have a government that reflects our societal values.  America is in favor of abortion as a woman's health choice, if our democracy is working properly that view will be reflected by our laws, as it largely is, despite the supreme court ruling.


--------------------
If you've never grown mushrooms before, here's how you start.  First, follow the Updated PF Tek, put 4 holes in jar lids not 1, and use a water tub! 
The next move is Shoebox Tek. After that you move onto grains, agar, monotubs.  Agar is easy, just do it.
Other useful links - Picture guide for how things should look and proper surface conditions guide
Growing APE or PE?  P9 pseudo casing tek


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Registered: 08/15/11
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Excess Taters]
    #28135277 - 01/11/23 11:57 AM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Spirit, I will literally bite the throat off a dog to save you if I have to.



Quote:

Excess Taters said:
Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
How about everyone just kills me? Unite for a single cause!




Are you vegetarian? Because I was thinking about a dietary change, and from now on I should probably only eat vegetarians.  I'm part native American, so we gotta use every part of the buffalo, and I can't waste what will be a perfectly cooked body once we've tenderized the meat.  Though perhaps vegetarians are more tender naturally, it'll be interesting to find out after we kill him.

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Spirit, I will literally bite the throat off a dog to save you if I have to.




This is good to know, if I hadn't read this I might have made a mistake.



:lolsy:


I'm not vegetarian:lol:


--------------------
ERROR 418 IM A TEAPOT.....(this account is automated, all posts related to illegal activities or advice thereof are strictly from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only)- Circa 2011
Ban lotto


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InvisibleJean-Luc Picard
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,177
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Excess Taters] * 1
    #28135343 - 01/11/23 12:51 PM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

Excess Taters said:
Picardman, I want you to know that you're probably my favorite poster in this thread.  I tend to engage with the collective rather than individuals as I reckon these individuals tend not to change their minds and only argue dishonestly with so much deflection and bullshit that the frustration of the engagement on an individual level is not worth the potential education of said individual.  Irrational religious beliefs are hardly ever swayed by rational reason based beliefs.  You know all of this, obviously, yet fight the good fight without succumbing to frustration and venting, instead defaulting to impeccable logic.

I can do that with many subjects, but when it comes to the actual word freedom, and human rights, which is what this issue is about, I get emotional.  I get pissed, I fucking hate the idea that some person convinced of something equivalent to the flying spaghetti monster without fun, wants to use their addled brain to impose their will on others.  It's appalling. 

These people scream for freedom and no government overreach, but the government better make sure that woman is forced to carry that man's child, or else they're not doing their job.  It's so contradictory and clearly absurd, that it's only people who still believe the nonsense their parents told them about the perfect sky man who made everything, who are actually convinced of these bullshit arguments.

Let alone the idea that the will of the people should be ignored so that a minority view can be imposed on the majority.  America is supposed to be a representative democracy, the point is to have a government that reflects our societal values.  America is in favor of abortion as a woman's health choice, if our democracy is working properly that view will be reflected by our laws, as it largely is, despite the supreme court ruling.




Thanks Excess Taters, I appreciate the compliment.

I'd like to point out that I also struggle with the emotional response, and have had to apologize mutliple times in this thread for getting snarky and miscommunicating what I mean. Its a tough subject to talk about, and I think everyone here feels like they are doing what they feel is morally right. I am reasonably assured through other interactions that Sugarbearcrisp and others arguing here are fantastic people that can and do regularly share interesting perspectives and good advice. Additionally, I'm probably the portion of the population that is as close to having the least "skin in the game" as possible, being a non-religious white male with no kids, so I think its easier for me to compartmentalize that emotional component of this debate.

I think its hard to navigate through what each individual believes in and lives by, and what portions of that moral system are objective or universal enough to warrant incorporation into the laws that govern the whole of the society. Regardless of our respective opinions of the right size, right level of involvement, or past/current ability to govern effectively or fairly, it would make sense for all of us to realize that societal law affects us, and thus we should all strive to demand of our society's government that laws be based on the most universal or objective philosophical bases. It would also make sense that if a large portion of (or in this case, greater than the majority of) the citizens of a society disagree with the underpinning arguments of legislation, then it should indicate to all that the situation is complex, and that more thought and conversation should be involved in the decision of the validity and/or constitutionality of said law.

Unfortunately for this conversation, its rife with emotion on both sides. With emotion comes miscommunication and personal attacks, so its especially important to try and keep cool and back up and reassess the message if you realize that someone is upset. :shrug:


--------------------
The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 1
    #28135364 - 01/11/23 01:14 PM (1 year, 17 days ago)

No one even knows what the fuck life is really always.  The Religious, The Scientific, ie. Biologists, etc. define it through comparing and contrasting stuff with other stuff in, and around us that either can do or can't do a certain number of the same neat tricks in similar ways like us.  Sure, we have some pretty well thought out parameters for what counts and doesn't but that and consciousness or Mind ~ forgive me~ Soul, are things that seem to be becoming more accessible to people via direct imminent yet transcendent experience giving more subjective Creedence to those aspects of Life and Humanity. ...Whatever it may or may not be. 


Life is dope AF.  Even when its pure hell and you're howling at the moon like a madman while ripping your hair out and sick as fuck, and hurting unimaginably badly inwardly and or outwardly - even then some essence of magical wonder, luster of life, remains unscathed.  Even then.  All the more easy to forget this simple fact when we've escaped into dirty nihilism or mired, fixed upon the concentration of absolute emptiness of all things existing atm in reality's casual web while we ebb-&-blow in it ourselves with everything else together all at once. 


Sure, Life's hard as fuck - but compared to more olden days and older ways- things are pretty fucking fantastic despite the stupid fiction that things are exponentially worse than before (mostly due to more people being alive, there being more people connected and in communication thanks to the internet and mass media knowing black/dark/sad/angry/fear sells faster in the short term bc our more immediate survival parts of ourselves glance it all over for our own good.  But then you look at your window from time to time despite all that- then on most days, and from most places, its not so bad, in fact - its pretty darn good.

Anyone saying its so bad is always free to off themselves immediately but I don't think anyone, or thing that's alive~  except for during exceedingly rare cases involving extreme suffering do so wholly voluntarily without any extra inner/outer influence/pressure.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: Jean-Luc Picard] * 2
    #28135375 - 01/11/23 01:21 PM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Hopefully I've never personally attacked anyone with my posts. I attack only opinions and ideologies. I appreciate the conversation/argument/differences of opinion from almost everyone in here as well. I seem to like eviscerating the dead horse as well as beating the fuck out of it.


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InvisibleGenericHero
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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
    #28135379 - 01/11/23 01:26 PM (1 year, 17 days ago)

Quote:

GenericHero said:
Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Unpopular Opinion: the AK-47 should be people’s first rifle. Nothing I’ve ever handled is as reliable or easy to shoot.




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Sugabearcrisp said:
Quote:

GenericHero said:
People change their minds. Circumstances change. People are bad at planning and implementing. What sounds good on theory, is often hard to implement in real life.

Just because something is theoretically viable outside the womb... It is still dependant on the mother's body to survive. How would one get it out? Surgery or induced labor? Could nothing go wrong between the point it becomes viable and the actual date of delivery? It doesn't seem that cut and dry to me.

As far as your statement:

"The point of viability continues to grow closer to the point of conception, eventually they will be one in the same. At that point it stops being fundamentally irrational as you say and life begins at conception."

Conception is when the egg is fertilized. Your first sentence makes me think you think it happens at the end of pregnancy.
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/11585-conception

No one is arguing that the fertilized egg is alive. I think the question is more when is it a person.




Exactly. When does a fertilized egg become a person and therefore not okay to terminate. My response to jlp was just to show it is rational to conceive of a future world where viability of a fertilized egg outside the womb is at the point of fertilization. We already conceive in the test tube and then implant, at some point we'll just skip the implant step and now when does life begin? :shrug:

Now something that was irrational before becomes rational to discuss.




In the future it may be the case that such processes are cheap and available to all. As of now, that isn't the case.
And yes, you can grow a human outside of a person but it couldn't survive without support from the medical equipment and personnel required for such a thing. The same standards would seem to apply up until the point it could sustain its life on its own.

By the way, have you looked at a fertilized egg? I doubt you would find that thing relatable. It literally is just a bunch of cells. It doesn't start growing organs until the third week. A potential person? Sure, but that is philosophical territory.




I would like to amend. Science had grown animals outside of the womb, but has never fully grown a human. It looks like 14 days is the longest a fertilized egg has gone outside of a womb.


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Re: The official unpopular opinion thread [Re: GenericHero]
    #28135393 - 01/11/23 01:38 PM (1 year, 17 days ago)

...that we know of or they tell us.:grin: I bet anything that a full human clone or 2 has been done and artificial womb births. Both combined more than likely.


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