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Offlineout_of_step
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Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... * 1
    #27120593 - 01/01/21 05:07 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Hi everyone

New to the site and it's quite overwhelming. I've been on and off the forum over the past few months looking for information but figured it'd be easier if I just put a new post and read the replies to it.

I'm venturing into the world of amateur mycology and need some questions answered.

I want to grow some mushrooms and I'm going to use the PF Tek method to get it started.


1. I've got medium grade and fine grade vermiculite. Which is best or should I just mix it all together?

2. I bought some empty jam jars from Wilko in the UK. I've since seen that ones without a "shoulder" would be better in order to get the cakes out. However these are more expensive and you don't get as many. Will normal jam jars do? Does it really matter or will any glass receptable do as long as it can withstand the heat of sterilisation and I can cover it with tin foil? (I'm trying to reduce, reuse and recycle as much as possible so thinking of returning these back to the shop and just using any jars I've got lying around)

3. Do I really need a pressure cooker? I've seen a cheap second-hand one but not sure about it......(I'm a bit scared of using one!)

4. I initially read micropore tape as one of the supplies but haven't seen it since. Do I need it to cover the holes once injected? (Do the holes need covering over once the pots have been injected?)

5. Really daft question but instead of using individually wrapped alcohol wipes, can I use 70% alcohol hand gel for cleaning over the drilled holes in the lids if I used a clean cloth / paper roll?

Fruting chamber....I'm looking into doing a SGFC but wondering what size to box to go for (room to grow vs humidity levels...) I have some leftover plastic mushroom grow bags from kits I've bought online and was wondering if I could just use these instead. I dont want to be growing tonnes of mushrooms.

Can I fruit the mushrooms in the jam jars?

If I were to do a SGFC, is it OK to keep the fruting chamber in one side of a room with natural day light (I can't put them right next to a window as all our radiators are under the windows and it'd get too hot)



I'm sure there's other questions I will have. Please don't confuse me with saying other methods are better! It's taken me ages to get my head around all the methods, teks and jargon and this is how I've chosen to start :-)


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InvisibleJim Nemo
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27120764 - 01/01/21 06:58 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

peace!
i'm not into pf tec, but i try my best to clear out at least some of your questions and give some input.
no pressure to follow any of my sayings, do what you think will work.

Quote:

out_of_step said:
2. I bought some empty jam jars from Wilko in the UK. I've since seen that ones without a "shoulder" would be better in order to get the cakes out. However these are more expensive and you don't get as many. Will normal jam jars do? Does it really matter or will any glass receptable do as long as it can withstand the heat of sterilisation and I can cover it with tin foil? (I'm trying to reduce, reuse and recycle as much as possible so thinking of returning these back to the shop and just using any jars I've got lying around)





well... i can't think of any way a cake will go out of a jar with shoulder.
so for pf tec the answer is: no, jam jars won't do. but for casing/shoebox they work fine. just saying.

and for the recycling/reusing - no problem, the jars will last forever, only the lids will need to be replaced once in a while, but not often.


Quote:

out_of_step said:
3. Do I really need a pressure cooker? I've seen a cheap second-hand one but not sure about it......(I'm a bit scared of using one!)





hell yes! :smile:
don't go second hand, because there may be something wrong with some parts. in the beginning i used a second hand pc - and when i replaced it i learned that the big rubber seal is not supposed to be yellowish, but grey. :/

pressure cookers are good for lots of other things, preparing beans and sterilizing jars with food in it.
so it's worth the investment!

and don't be scared, they are simple to use and when you use it the first time, stay in the kitchen and do the babysitter. five usages later you just set a timer and go for groceries without second thought, no doubt :wink:


Quote:

out_of_step said:
4. I initially read micropore tape as one of the supplies but haven't seen it since. Do I need it to cover the holes once injected? (Do the holes need covering over once the pots have been injected?)





micropore tape seems to work out perfect for lots of people in the hobby, but why not use polyfil - it's pretty cheap, one pack will last forever(like literally) and it works perfect as well.

if you work without a laminar hood, better cover the lids with tinfoil(aluminum foil). remove them right before inoculation and then leave them off the lids, the mycelium needs the bit of breating.


Quote:

out_of_step said:
5. Really daft question but instead of using individually wrapped alcohol wipes, can I use 70% alcohol hand gel for cleaning over the drilled holes in the lids if I used a clean cloth / paper roll?





in my country you can just go to a pharmacy and buy a liter of isopropanol 70 for like 8 bucks. buy a little 100ml bottle made of glass and a spray head/lid. done. that's simple, cheap and works perfect.


Quote:

out_of_step said:
Fruting chamber....I'm looking into doing a SGFC but wondering what size to box to go for (room to grow vs humidity levels...) I have some leftover plastic mushroom grow bags from kits I've bought online and was wondering if I could just use these instead. I dont want to be growing tonnes of mushrooms.

Can I fruit the mushrooms in the jam jars?

If I were to do a SGFC, is it OK to keep the fruting chamber in one side of a room with natural day light (I can't put them right next to a window as all our radiators are under the windows and it'd get too hot)





again i can only say what works fine for me: just use any form of plastic container(like these shoeboxes), drill some holes, fill them with polyfil/put some micropore-tape on the holes. done. some holes higher, some lower for cross ventilation.

leave the idea of fruiting only in the jam jars. other thing would be if you put the opened jam jar in a plastic container. that'll work. in a germanic speaking community a member named zardoz sucessfully used that method and even named it "simple tek". unfortunately the community message board is offline so i can't give you a link.
just wrap the jars in tinfoil(aluminum foil) to prevent at least a bit of shrooms growing to the side of the jar. the opening needs to be open and not wrapped of course.


Quote:

out_of_step said:
I'm sure there's other questions I will have. Please don't confuse me with saying other methods are better! It's taken me ages to get my head around all the methods, teks and jargon and this is how I've chosen to start :-)





it'll work out fine! if you have questions, just go ahead, if we can, we will help!
i hope i didn't confuse you too much :wink:
and sorry about that vermiculite question, i have no idea - i don't use it.

cheers,
jim


--------------------
When the acid trip is over, you gotta come back to mother blues...


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Invisiblestubb
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27120777 - 01/01/21 07:07 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

0. Check out this modern, comprehensive pf tek:  https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086

1. I'm no PF expert, most seem to say verm grade doesn't matter, but preference seems to go to fine grade.

2. Birthing the cakes from tapered jars intact is definitely problematic, you'll want wide mouth jars. The tek above also links to an alternative container method, if it helps.

3. No, you don't need a pressure cooker for pf.  The tek above doesn't use a pressure cooker.

4. No, you don't need micropore tape.  This is what the dry verm layer is for, the tek above just leaves the holes uncovered.

5. I have no idea. 

6. There's lots of suggestions for fruiting chambers in the tek above.  Size you need depends on how many cakes you're making. 

7. Yes.  It's called 'top fruiting'.

8. Yes, they don't need to be in the dark. 

9. Welcome to the shroomery.


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: stubb]
    #27120876 - 01/01/21 08:11 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Fine verm is best.

MP tape is superfluous imo. I've done cakes weekly for a couple years and a dry verm layer is all you really need. I've often seen stalled jars posted here because the tape and verm were restricting too much air.

There's multiple ways to fruit cakes. Mateah's humidity chamber save's you making holes, you can top fruit straight from a jar, or you can just shred cakes to bulk in a shoebox.

Fruiting away from a window is fine. They want indirect sunlight anyway.


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OfflineKyngwhatt
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27121098 - 01/01/21 10:28 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

1. both work
2. you need to get the cake out so no shoulders. I’ve seem people use coffee cups with foil secured to it as a lid. But it’s nice if its clear so you can see what is going on.
3.people say you can use a normal pot with a tight fitting lid and something to hold it down, but I think they are non negotiable. I have a PC I bought from good will, I replaced the gasket and it works great. Make sure everything on it seems to function you’ll be fine. They arent that dangerous they have a over pressure valve that will blow and release all the pressure if something goes wrong, you just want that pointing away from you in case it does need to vent it wont vent into your body.
4.the dry layer of verm you put in the jar is your filter and you don’t need to tape it
5. I use a roll of the cheapest toilet paper and a bottle of 70% iso
6 yes you can use bags as a fruiting chamber for individual cakes but I think it requires a little more attention.
7”can I fruit from the jam jars” that is the old school way mckenna showed us how to do it. And if you intend to do it that way you can use the jars with the shoulders because you aren’t going to take the cake out to fruit it. I think you’ll get less product that way but you might not care.
8. yes that’s what you are going for ambient light not direct sunlight.
Good luck friend come back and show us what you’ve come up with.


--------------------


Whatt


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OfflineLtLurker
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Kyngwhatt]
    #27121118 - 01/01/21 10:40 PM (5 months, 9 days ago)

Top fruiting works fine. Only real downside is cutting out cakes if you get side pins. For cake yield it seems about the same to me if you get the surface conditions right. Bulking it out with coir to a shoe box seems to do a little better than individual cakes ime.
some top fruits


an early 4 cake shoebox


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27281109 - 04/25/21 07:15 AM (1 month, 19 days ago)

I have prepared and sterilised my jars. Now I'm onto the inoculation stage. So I've got some questions...

Do the inoculated jars need to be kept in the dark? I have read you do but then some personal accounts of people leaving them in a shelf in a room. I was thinking of on top of the airing cupboard so not in the dark.

I've got 3 layers of tin foil. I took to take the top layer off for inoculation. I've replaced the top layer of foil to cover the holes. Do I leave injection holes covered or uncovered?


I'm either going to top fruit straight out of the jars or use a shoebox or two. If I use shoebox method, I've read of different substrates to use in the bottom. I'm not sure which is the best to use.

I'm going to have more questions once I get onto the next stage.

This is my first time like I said in the original post so I would appreciate any help to what might be daft questions.

Thank you to people who replied to my original post. It's taken me a while to get started but I have eventually done it. Apologies I haven't replied directly, sometimes life gets in the way.


Edited by out_of_step (04/25/21 09:41 AM)


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Offlinelordoflowend
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step] * 1
    #27281461 - 04/25/21 01:43 PM (1 month, 19 days ago)

Dude go on you tube and watch everything from your boi  the Philly golden teacher you'll be set


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InvisibleRoadAppleSnapple
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: lordoflowend]
    #27281612 - 04/25/21 04:36 PM (1 month, 19 days ago)

Heck yeah, you're on your way!

I'm new too, but I can offer some help, though I'll defer to the more experienced.


Jars are fine in the light, plus it's fun to watch them colonize. That said, a sunny window where they would get hot would be not so great.

Can't help with the tinfoil question as I've not done that particular tek.

If you go with a shoebox (a great choice), you'll want to use coco coir as the substrate you mix your spawn with. Save a thin layer for the top. 1spawn:1coco or 1:2 are common ratios, but do a bit of research.

I would trust growers here over the youtube guy mentioned above... personal opinion, I'm sure he's a cool cat and all.

Hoping you have a rockin grow!:rockon:


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: lordoflowend]
    #27283975 - 04/27/21 04:31 PM (1 month, 17 days ago)

Thank you! I had a little look.  There's just so much information out there


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: RoadAppleSnapple]
    #27283980 - 04/27/21 04:34 PM (1 month, 17 days ago)

Thank you! What tek are you using?
Well for now, they're on top of the airing cupboard out of the way of the window but not in the dark. Im keeping the tin foil lids on over the holes. Fingers crossed. I'll be happy if I just get one!

Yep I was thinking of coir. Need to do more research first tho.


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OfflineSub-Easy
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27284137 - 04/27/21 07:36 PM (1 month, 17 days ago)

For a person that doesn't plan on going all out it should be simple. Keep it simple 😄. The jars need air, so don't seal them. Pollyfill, like the kind in stuffed animals, should be packed in the lid holes and SGFC pretty tight, but I guess they are saying to cover the top with vermiculite. MP or tyvek is good. It's about contamination. The air is filled with millions of contaminates, so it's best not to open any jars after they are sterilized. Try to keep them on the cooler side. 72-77. That will discourage contaminates from growing. When it's time to fruit they should be strong enough to fight off most contamination. SGFC is good for giving air. They don't need much during colonization, but the fruit will need as much as it can get and still have a humide microclimate. Light can be minimal and it's okay at any stage of growing.

The hobby is fun for a lot of people because of all the research, but if you just want to get started (and that's the best way to learn) then there are some simple ways to do it. Try neglect tek, or truffles. Easy. Once you have success, you will probably start trying more involved methods. But your off to a good start. Roger rabbit (RR) and Willy myco have great advice. It's hard to go wrong as long as you know how to avoid contamination. And if you learn nothing else, you will find out the true magic of mushrooms..... they teach you patience!


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Sub-Easy]
    #27291435 - 05/03/21 06:39 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

I'm keeping it simple,  yes! Ive kept the intact tin foil over the tin foil lids with holes in. I'll see what happens.
Definitely about the interest of it...results are a bonus. I'm not in any rush..it's more the enjoyment of a new hobby.


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OfflineScientificAnalysis
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27291450 - 05/03/21 07:06 AM (1 month, 11 days ago)

i reccomend medical micropore tape. the micropore tape allows gas exchange while blocking some particulates which could carry contams.


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Offlinebarfly
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27291938 - 05/03/21 01:56 PM (1 month, 11 days ago)

Quote:

out_of_step said:
I'm keeping it simple,  yes! Ive kept the intact tin foil over the tin foil lids with holes in. I'll see what happens.
Definitely about the interest of it...results are a bonus. I'm not in any rush..it's more the enjoyment of a new hobby.




Hi :smile: nice to see another beginner struggling along. Don't worry, you'll manage fine and people here are very friendly and helpful. Even I've managed to grow a few odd shrooms by now.

If you don't mind my asking, I did not really understand what you meant when talking about tin foils over tin foils? What axactly are you doing? Which tek are you following?

Oh, and definitely get a pc. Even if you don't neccessarily require one, I'd get and use one just for peace of mind. Plus, a pc is great for normal cooking, too :wink:


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27293920 - 05/04/21 02:21 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Hi Barfly! Nice to hear from another newbie! I'm using PF tek what about you?
Re tin foils....
I'm using tin foil instead of lids with drilled holes.
So on top of my jar I've got two layers of tin foil which were pierced and then another piece of tin foil over the top to cover the holes.
This is the only bit I'm not sure on at this stage. I suppose if I'd used real lids, I wouldn't then cover over the drilled holes with anything...perhaps I should take the top layer of foil off.
I've got a layer of vermiculite there...but some of the holes were bigger than expected when I did the first injections as I ripped thr foil a bit. So I'm not sure if I should leave holes open or cover.
I have got a bit of action in two jars and its only been a week. I might carry on and see what develops.


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Offlinebarfly
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27293975 - 05/04/21 03:05 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

out_of_step said:
Hi Barfly! Nice to hear from another newbie! I'm using PF tek what about you?
Re tin foils....
I'm using tin foil instead of lids with drilled holes.
So on top of my jar I've got two layers of tin foil which were pierced and then another piece of tin foil over the top to cover the holes.
This is the only bit I'm not sure on at this stage. I suppose if I'd used real lids, I wouldn't then cover over the drilled holes with anything...perhaps I should take the top layer of foil off.
I've got a layer of vermiculite there...but some of the holes were bigger than expected when I did the first injections as I ripped thr foil a bit. So I'm not sure if I should leave holes open or cover.
I have got a bit of action in two jars and its only been a week. I might carry on and see what develops.




Interesting. So you have no lids at all over your cakes?

I've been doing pf tek myself. Just birthed four cakes a week and a half ago; one of which is already looking like this:




I put tin foil on top of my lids when im pcing the jars. But other than that I just drill a hole in the lid, cover it with medical tape (microtape, somethingplast, stuff like that) and leave it at that. And my holes vary in size, depending on whatever was at hand to drill/puncture them at the moment :laugh:

Like this:





I rarely even bother to cover it with a second layer of tape after I inject them :laugh:


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Offlineout_of_step
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27294117 - 05/04/21 04:33 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

No lids, just foil. I didn't wanna put holes in jars I might want to use for other purposes.
I'm gonna take the extra foil "lid" off two jars and see what happens.  I might be restricting air flow a bit with it on.
Your cake looks good!  What have you got in the bottom of your box as substrate? Is that your first attempt? Are you addicted to growing mushrooms yet?!


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Offlinebarfly
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27294186 - 05/04/21 05:25 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

out_of_step said:
No lids, just foil. I didn't wanna put holes in jars I might want to use for other purposes.
I'm gonna take the extra foil "lid" off two jars and see what happens.  I might be restricting air flow a bit with it on.
Your cake looks good!  What have you got in the bottom of your box as substrate? Is that your first attempt? Are you addicted to growing mushrooms yet?!




Yes, it's my first grow - apart from fucking up a growkit or two.

That's perlite. It's a shotgun fruiting chamber. Though I'll probably transfer the cakes into a humidity chamber and stop bothering with SGFCs in future.

I'ver also spawned two BRF cakes to coir and am expecting results soon.


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OfflineBakedbeings
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27294369 - 05/04/21 07:16 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

1. fine grade verm is better

2. you need a jar without a shoulder so you can get the cake out without destroying it. however, some people like to destroy their cakes and mix them up with coco coir. search "spawning cakes to bulk"

3. you absolutely need a pressure cooker. trying to get around it will only waste your time.

4. the top layer of verm is there to protect from contams but a piece of tape is an added layer of protection. you can use micropore tape or even regular tape, as colonization doesnt require much o2

5. i use 70% iso (not gel) and paper towels. idk if gel would work.

6. the SGFC sucks please dont build one. look up "humidity chamber" or "water tub" teks

7. you can fruit the cakes in jars. its called "in vitro" or "hippie tek" or "neglect tek".

8. light isnt a big deal. if you can see them, they have enough.


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Invisiblefungusul
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27294484 - 05/04/21 08:54 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Welcome to Shroomery! :mushroom2:

1. Use fine vermiculite but not dust. Coarse or medium vermiculite are not good for dry filter.

2. It's recommended to use wide mouth jars if you are planning to get them out to fruit them inside an SGFC or humidity chamber(HC). However if you plan to grate them to a shoe-box it doesn't really mater.

3. PF-TEK was designed to be used without a PC. However it's highly recommended to use one. If your are planning any grains/agar, then you must use one.

4. Using micropore tape is optional but it helps in my opinion. It's an extra layer of protection that prevents contamination of the dry layer during PC and before inoculation. The height of the dry layer(fine vermiculite) should be between 13mm-17mm. For size of holes you could use 1/8" = 0.12" = 3.05mm.

5. I use a paper-roll and Lysol. Alcohol 70% is also good.

Before drilling holes for SGFC, consider using a humidity chamber(HC). A lot easier with no maintenance whatsoever, better yields. Read more on Humidity Chamber Tek for fruiting BRF cakes


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OfflineBakedbeings
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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27295439 - 05/05/21 01:57 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

ive used just tinfoil instead of lids before and it works fine, i would suggest tightening your foil lids to the side of the jar with tape or a rubber band. you really dont want too much airflow introducing contams or drying out your brf. even tho the verm is a good shield if contans collect on top of the verm and you move the jar or tilt it to look at its progress that contam can shake its way down to the brf. its happened to me.

some people will say pf cakes need a pinhole to breath during colonization and in my experience thats nonsense. ive done cakes in sealed containers plenty of times and it seems to be that the o2 trapped in the container is more than enough for the mycelium to do its thing. but try whatever you feel like trying and enjoy the ride.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27295451 - 05/05/21 02:07 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

I'm not doing sgfc it's too much messing and I'm trying to ruin as least reusable plastic as possible. If I drill holes in a box I can't use it for anything else.
I'm thinking of doing a couple of jars "in vitro" and the rest in shoeboxes. But I'll see what develops first.

I've got my verm and iso etc sorted now. I'm not using a pressure cooker. I'm just starting out so not investing in anything yet.

I've realised I just need to get on with it instead of asking too many questions of "what ifs..." that's part of the learning. It's all a big experiment and getting into a new hobby. But I will be asking more questions =)


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27295455 - 05/05/21 02:11 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

You seem well on your way by the sounds of it. Can you tell me more about your spawn coir? What type of container are you using and what quantities of coir mix with cake etc?


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27295526 - 05/05/21 03:26 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Thanks for the reassurance! Yes I didn't want anything getting in the holes which is wHY ivr kept the foil lids on.. Time will tell!


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27295559 - 05/05/21 03:56 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

i assume you still have the lids to the jars? if youre going invitro i would wait until the cakes are fully colonized, scrape out the loose verm on top, and then put the lids back on the jars loosely

regarding your question to barfly, 50/50 cake to coir will give you the fastest colonization time and the smallest chance of contam


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27295605 - 05/05/21 04:22 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

out_of_step said:
You seem well on your way by the sounds of it. Can you tell me more about your spawn coir? What type of container are you using and what quantities of coir mix with cake etc?




I'm using a 900ml ice-cream container :laugh:



I birthed a BRF cake, dunked it for about five hours and then crumbled it into the empty container. I added about the same amount of coir(more or less, haven't been exact), mixed it and then covered it with a layer of coir. Gave it a good spraying, covered it loosely with the lid and put it on the shelf.

Well, actually I did all that twice, but you get the idea...

That was on Saturday. These Ice-cream-boxes have been colonising like crazy since:



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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27295633 - 05/05/21 04:45 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Amazing! Keep us posted on progress! It's exciting seeing the different stages.
How long did it take for your jars to colonise from inoculation?


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27295635 - 05/05/21 04:47 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Bakedbeings said:
i assume you still have the lids to the jars? if youre going invitro i would wait until the cakes are fully colonized, scrape out the loose verm on top, and then put the lids back on the jars loosely

regarding your question to barfly, 50/50 cake to coir will give you the fastest colonization time and the smallest chance of contam




Yep still got tye lids. Thanks for advice!:thumbup:


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27296555 - 05/06/21 07:16 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

out_of_step said:
Amazing! Keep us posted on progress! It's exciting seeing the different stages.
How long did it take for your jars to colonise from inoculation?




Sadly, I cannot give you a clear answer on that. I inoculated a bunch of cakes in January. However, then real life happened and I had to ignore the jars for a few months. It was only two or three weeks ago that I found peace and time to return to mycology. By that time, some of my jars already looked like this:



That was a nice surprise, though :laugh:

Had a small harvest of 22g wet yesterday. Not much, but I'm happy :smile: Taking sporeprints of three of them right now:



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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: barfly]
    #27335046 - 06/04/21 11:49 AM (10 days, 17 hours ago)

So now my jars are almost colonised (it's been a slow process but I'm in no rush). They're all at different stages but I've got one, possibly two (of different strains) which will be ready soon.
So I'm in two minds whether to fruit them in vitro, or bulk into a shoebox...
I don't have enough of one strain ready for the size of shoebox I have (if the ratio of coir to cake is 1:1 or 2:1). So I'm thinking of doing it in a clear ice cream tub or something as posted above.
The other option is to put a layer of perlite in the bottom and sit a cake on foil. Then i can add another cake when theyre ready. Theres probably room for two or three cakes per box. I've no holes drilled in my boxes but could fan them or leave the lid ajar.
I'm a bit of a perfectionist (which probably isn't the best quality of a mushroom grower) and don't want to do one method if I know it's not going to work well. However, this process is teaching me to let go of my perfectionist tendencies and to just get on with things. If it doesn't work, there's always next time.
Edit - this is not about volume for me, it's just about enjoyment of the process.


Edited by out_of_step (06/04/21 11:50 AM)


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27335186 - 06/04/21 01:35 PM (10 days, 15 hours ago)

sounds like a humidity chamber is the way to go. someone already posted a link above. it can be any size, any amount of cakes, and zero mods necessary


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27335213 - 06/04/21 01:55 PM (10 days, 14 hours ago)



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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27335942 - 06/05/21 05:44 AM (9 days, 23 hours ago)

Brill. I think that's what I'm looking for! It says slightly hydrated coir.
Do you think I should pasteurise if first or is it really just "hydrated"? Do you think any other medium could be used? I've got coir but I'm just interested.


Edited by out_of_step (06/05/21 05:49 AM)


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27335954 - 06/05/21 06:32 AM (9 days, 22 hours ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong but in vitro is different to top fruiting? I'm learning new things everyday and I thought they meant the same but now I'm not sure.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27336068 - 06/05/21 10:08 AM (9 days, 18 hours ago)

coir is the default because its cheap and very resistant to contam. i like to pasteurize mine but people do get away with just wetting it sometimes. i think its so easy to boil some water so why risk it

invitro fruiting comes in many forms, top fruiting is one of them. the only reason i didnt like invitro was that i only had one set of jars and i wanted to start new cakes, but thats just me


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27336187 - 06/05/21 12:28 PM (9 days, 16 hours ago)

Invitro is when the mushroom matures without being exposed to open air(a jar that was never opened for some reason). Top fruiting you still open the jar and do a little surface work to encourage pinning on top, so it's not really invitro.

Coir is typically prepped with bucket tek. Most would describe this procedure as "cooked", not really pasteurized or sterilized. When they say "slightly wet" you really are aiming for field capacity, which is described in that link as well.


Edited by LtLurker (06/05/21 12:31 PM)


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27336250 - 06/05/21 01:38 PM (9 days, 15 hours ago)

i disagree with that narrow definition. chronic tek is referred to as invitro although the cake is birthed. PFs description of invitro fruiting included a similar example, and even in cases where the cake is never removed from the jar the process often includes increasing fae once the medium is colonized

hell some dont even involve glass, and in vitro literally means "in glass". anarchy!


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27336361 - 06/05/21 03:48 PM (9 days, 13 hours ago)

The only relevent link was pod tek, which is not exposed to open air. It uses the same technique as unmodded lids, which doesn't allow contams to get in.

RR's pic was about putting foil and blocking light, he didn't say anything about opening the jar. Plus, his posts are years old, things progress sometimes. That reference was 11 years old and not really about invitro.

It doesn't usually matter what offsite links say, they use terms wrong all the time and Shroomery tries to be more accurate that other places. IE, monoculture and isolate.

One of ur links was broken.

There's a reason for the distinction between invitro and and top fruit(or other exposed bottle teks). You can take sterile samples from an invitro grow. Your definition is too broad to be really useful imo.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27336437 - 06/05/21 05:25 PM (9 days, 11 hours ago)

ill start by saying that i agree that it was a stretch to include top fruiting as a type of invitro fruiting. that correction was fair. i personally think theres a lot of similarity between fruiting a half-full jar with holes in the lid and fruiting a full jar with a ziploc baggie over its mouth, so i lumped them together, but thats not a hill im willing to die on and if people take issue i repent

to clarify, the RR comment i was pointing to was above the one you saw, where he says to have holes in the lid or cover the mouth with some crumpled wax paper...both introduce unfiltered air, and here is another example of him giving similar advice. sure its an old link, as is the original PF tek, but i dont see that as a problem because we arent talking about whats the most updated practice but rather what a term can be used to describe

the definition youre asserting, "never exposing the mycelium to open air so as to maintain a sterile environment," makes perfect sense to me, but i just dont see much consensus around it. a lot of people (on this site) talk about taking the lid off and scraping off the verm layer or dunking the cake or leaving holes in the lid, and all of these things introduce outside air. pods tek, which you agreed was relevant, includes the option of watering the myc before the first flush which certainly breaks the seal


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27336519 - 06/05/21 06:39 PM (9 days, 10 hours ago)

"the definition youre asserting, "never exposing the mycelium to open air so as to maintain a sterile environment," makes perfect sense to me, but i just dont see much consensus around it. a lot of people (on this site) talk about taking the lid off and scraping off the verm layer or dunking the cake or leaving holes in the lid, and all of these things introduce outside air. pods tek, which you agreed was relevant, includes the option of watering the myc before the first flush which certainly breaks the seal"

Honestly i can't recall any vets doing a bottle grow and calling it invitro. I'm sure's it's happened but i don't think it's really that common. Amoung vets here, you typically see invitro used in reference to a sterile pin they're cloning from a jar or plate; Or explaining to newbs how to deal with invitro pins in a brf jar.
If you were to use pod tek with the opening to water variation of the method, then it would no longer be an invitro grow, just a bottle grow. Just cause the initial idea is a full invitro process, doesn't necessarily mean any way you expand on it continues to be invitro.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27336596 - 06/05/21 07:45 PM (9 days, 9 hours ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
Honestly i can't recall any vets doing a bottle grow and calling it invitro.




heres RRs reply to "does anyone grow invitro?"

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Here's a few of mine.  It's not really a valid tek if you want product within a given time.  It's also strain related, as many substrains won't fruit invitro no matter what.  The procedure is to colonize a jar, then remove the filter, or else leave the filter and remove the lid to increase air exchange.  This, and very bright light will trigger invitro pins.  Hydrating the cake or grains with weak brewed liquid coffee will help invitro fruiting too.
RR
[url=http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/05-10/056256190-grain_to_grain_invitro_2_004a.jpg][image]




the dictionary says it means "outside a living organism" so i guess everyones wrong...or...right? ...idk

:resignednonacceptance:

we've derailed this thread enough for today methinks


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27336642 - 06/05/21 08:40 PM (9 days, 8 hours ago)

Yea i think we just need to disagree. In the couple years i been year, it's just not my experience it's used that way. But sure, RR said that  9+ years ago. I dunno what you want me to say about that, sort by recent and even filter for TC's, it's not the impression i get either.

Definitions are flexible and vary in context and change over time. What a general dictionary says aren't necessarily the only definitions. Lotta science fields have their own little dictionaries. It's kinda neat.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27337705 - 06/06/21 05:24 PM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Thanks guys! Although some of it's straight over my head at the moment. (I know, I did ask!) I've actually had a mushroom grown in a bit of mycelium within my jar, altho the jar itself is unopened is nowhere near colonised. This was one of the jars which was very slow to take off and I experimented with leaving a couple of holes free in the lid. This is the way to learn really...to experiment!


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step]
    #27337752 - 06/06/21 05:57 PM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

Question.....
If I decide to go down the shoebox route, do I still need fully colonised jars? Some are on 90-95% but if I'm breaking up the cakes is it going to matter much? I think maybe it does and there's more chance of contamination if they're not fully colonised.
I'm very grateful for all your input people! Thank you!


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: out_of_step] * 1
    #27337789 - 06/06/21 06:32 PM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

if your jar is fruiting before its colonized its contaminated or otherwise fucked

regarding your question, uncolonized grain will become contaminated if you remove it from the jar (if its not already). if you want to fruit a partially colonized cake you need to clean the uncolonized bits off very well


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: Bakedbeings]
    #27338939 - 06/07/21 03:27 PM (7 days, 13 hours ago)

:whathesaid: Yea definitely a bad idea to birth early.


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27340275 - 06/08/21 03:25 PM (6 days, 13 hours ago)

I'll take that advice!


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Re: Novice mushroom grower about to start on the adventure! Got some silly questions..... [Re: LtLurker]
    #27341629 - 06/09/21 02:58 PM (5 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

LtLurker said:
:whathesaid: Yea definitely a bad idea to birth early.




Good to know, cheers. Was planning on using two stalled BRF cakes as spawn like I did with the ice-cream-boxes a few pages back.

Those guys are slowly coming along. They're extreeemely slow growers, though...



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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Getting Started

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