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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: surface problems vs. fundamental problems [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27123638 - 01/03/21 10:54 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

I agree that man's spiritual state these days is very, very poor in general, and that surely it exacerbates, and is exacerbated by, any issues we may have.

I have been discussing the fissures throughout the thread. Our civilization started out as an unsustainable proposition based on its cornerstone of consumption, and that increasingly throughout history this has been more and more amplified. And today we have 3.5 billion people below the poverty line, and that is going to get worse before it gets any better.

Part of this unsustainability is our impact on the environment, which at this point is extreme across the board. For some reason people only focus on climate change, which is very real, but there are dozens of other environmental crises. The human and animal habitat is literally falling apart as a result of our way of life. Scientists have declared a sixth great extinction, due solely to human activity. Only about 23% of the Earth's surface (excluding Antarctica) is wilderness at this point. And we'll be adding two to four billion more humans.

I could go on and on. The main fissure is that our civilization is artificial and unsustainable, cannot last indefinitely, and that our institutions, while they may function on a surface level, grow out of roots that are dysfunctional. Real change would result from addressing the roots, not the surface manifestations. I don't know whether that is even possible.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: surface problems vs. fundamental problems [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27123644 - 01/03/21 10:55 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

where there is soup there is life,
I like hamburgers, but soup is better especially if it has lotsa proteins in it.
for soup we need clean water.
and a place to cook it.
and the knowledge of what goes into it.
and a way to clean up after
and a way to do it again.
so:
water and pollution and global warming need attention
basic rights to nourishment
basic housing rights need attention
basic education rights
basic sanitation and health rights
basic equality and freedoms.

I think this can be worked out without money, and with money you can get into fashion, art, bling, sports and entertainment.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 4 days, 11 hours
Re: surface problems vs. fundamental problems [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27123704 - 01/03/21 11:34 AM (3 years, 25 days ago)

Perhaps the roots are a cultural problem. Or then we just need to  go back to the stone ages metaphorically speaking and forget all this advancement and big cities and infrastructure and everything.
Many people live lives like rats in a cage anyways, slaves to the wage.
We could go back to living in small communities that were somewhat selfsustainable. However that would mean the abandonment of tech and luxury. Nobody is ready to trade those away - most aren't atleast - but we could all be happier I suppose. I know I could settle for a simple life living alongside nature with good people and a safe community. Forget schools and work and shit.

Maybe we could find some sort of compromise between tech-civilization and primitive. People could switch between working in a factory to produce essential tech for agriculture for example and doing other work or just leisure. Fuck, I mean isn't the whole reason we started getting into robotics and the like that there would be less work? Just get the robots working most of the hard physical labor and the rest of us can just chill. Put money on everybody's accounts in amounts that the whole economy based on food primarily would stay intact.

This is where the government that I pointed to in my previous post plays a role in distributing the money or food and good to the "unemployed".
Who really wants to work anyways.
Lets just eat mushrooms and bask in the beauty of the world and life together.


Edited by InnerWisdom (01/03/21 11:36 AM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: surface problems vs. fundamental problems [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #27123749 - 01/03/21 12:01 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

I like your thinking. The roots are definitely a cultural problem. But I think it's definite that we cannot go back, even partially, at this point. It would damage the operation of the economy, in whatever modern form it takes. But speaking of the economy, as you say, we have reached the point that we could radically streamline the economy, and still have a robust GDP. Right now, tens of millions of people could stop working if we do it right, but hardly anyone thinks this way. Buckminster Fuller was talking about radically streamlining the economy in the 1950s. So surely we can do it today.

It is the dream of centuries for machines to do the work, and as I say, if we really wanted to we could replace many millions of jobs today by automation. But now that we're at that point, it is not on anyone's agenda to do anything about it. Certainly, a universal basic income would be required to compensate citizens, but such a thing is quite workable with a robust GDP. Automation, robots and A.I. are going to revolutionize the economy anyway, so why not get on it?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
Re: surface problems vs. fundamental problems [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #27123804 - 01/03/21 12:27 PM (3 years, 25 days ago)

and psychedelics
underrated
for example the best mj and mushrooms
for sports I recommend badminton
I was very good and I live with someone who lost to peter gade in town cup elite
last but not least you can get very very good bling for very very few money
thing is when you wear fine clothes people respond better so you respond better it's like looking in a mirror and the mirror having better picure like pushes you towards better places


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with our love with our love we could save the world


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