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BrendanFlock
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27114906 - 12/29/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think something is creative if it is beautiful.
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27115233 - 12/29/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I cannot think of anything anywhere anywhen which would satisfy some people here as compliant with the absolute requisite of indisputably non-derivative newness or even non-derivative existence.
it seems to me that dependent origination prevails universally even in quantum physics.
the question in my mind is "who gives a flying fuck? if you appreciate the art you got a bonus experience, and if not, move on."
Those convoluted artist statements are not that helpful in getting the appreciation going, but they mean a lot to some parts of the art world.
This is ultimately the correct conclusion in my honest observation.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Sirshovel]
#27115235 - 12/29/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I covered this many years ago and we are in agreement on many points.
An artist has a computer with 1 b&w pixel. Is it creative if he chooses black or if he chooses white?
An artist has a computer with 4 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 16 combinations?
An artist has a computer with 16 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 256 combinations?
And so forth...
We can add color and do the same thought experiment.
At what depth is creativity definitively declared?
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#27115237 - 12/29/20 11:51 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I covered this many years ago and we are in agreement on many points.
An artist has a computer with 1 b&w pixel. Is it creative if he chooses black or if he chooses white?
An artist has a computer with 4 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 16 combinations?
An artist has a computer with 16 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 256 combinations?
And so forth...
We can add color and do the same thought experiment.
At what depth is creativity definitively declared?
Correct! It's called thinking rationally and you've just displayed it perfectly. MOST of what we assume is concrete, is not dissimilar to what you just said in the above example, my friend. Bravo.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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BrendanFlock
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27115257 - 12/30/20 12:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So there is nothing (degrees of freedom) compared to the first thinking compared to the most valid perfect thing..
There is always a thing that gives you the most reletivity equalling zero..
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InnerWisdom


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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#27115287 - 12/30/20 01:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Creativity is when the artist decides to sit down with an idea that rose out of their mind and selected the pixels to represent it. Now art doesn't always need to be creative. Someone could just do a copy of any art and it would still work as art pretty much. Creativity is like dreams. That's like the essence of human creativity in work.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#27115731 - 12/30/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: I covered this many years ago and we are in agreement on many points.
An artist has a computer with 1 b&w pixel. Is it creative if he chooses black or if he chooses white?
An artist has a computer with 4 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 16 combinations?
An artist has a computer with 16 b&w pixels. Is it creative if he chooses 1 of 256 combinations?
And so forth...
We can add color and do the same thought experiment.
At what depth is creativity definitively declared?
is this a thought experiment meant to discredit 'creativity' (a word I find obnoxious and infantalizing for the most part - I prefer synthetic art versus creative art, as there is more connecting going on during synthesis as opposed to creative expression which could just be candida (fungal excresence))
depth is irrelevant. with graphene you get 20 layers from 20 molecules, but with trump you need a building with 20 stories so a naked lady can jump on your table.
I hope that helps.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27115762 - 12/30/20 08:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Even a non-mathematician can multiply on a log table.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#27115852 - 12/30/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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usually log tables have gobs of dried stew and beer to keep you boinking
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Pinkerton
Ultrasentient

Registered: 02/26/19
Posts: 3,198
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27116021 - 12/30/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can you say hi to orkie from me? He's ignoring moi.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Pinkerton]
#27116082 - 12/30/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Pinkerton said: Can you say hi to orkie from me? He's ignoring moi.
that is not possible
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#27117384 - 12/31/20 12:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Even a non-mathematician can multiply on a log table. 
0 x anything is always 0, but 1 has to exist in the first place before it can be added to nothing (0).
The Big Bang is Bullshit.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27117523 - 12/31/20 04:20 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So zero is a kind of abstraction?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27117595 - 12/31/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said:
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Even a non-mathematician can multiply on a log table. 
0 x anything is always 0, but 1 has to exist in the first place before it can be added to nothing (0).
The Big Bang is Bullshit.
yes, except if you consider the nature of time itself. of course the universe does not come out of nothing, until time shows up which suggests a kink in gravity etc. i.e. one little shift and BOOM! although before time, there was no concept of before. (and I am not sure what that suggests, but something else anyway)
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Yellow Pants


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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27117939 - 12/31/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Before time must be timeless. Timelessness either has quality or doesn’t. Since 1 cannot come from zero then the state of timelessness has quality.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#27117963 - 12/31/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's not about you and if there is not any information it is not therefore proof of that missing information having any qualities you would recognize.
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Yellow Pants


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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: redgreenvines]
#27117987 - 12/31/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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That’s a one not I
Besides since it is not about “me” then you’ll sympathize with the humility present in order to state something without information at hand.
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Yellow Pants


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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Yellow Pants]
#27118020 - 12/31/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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And are we debating recognition or existence? I am just saying that it is sufficient proof of existence in timelessness and not that I would recognize anything of it.
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Sirshovel
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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
#27119276 - 12/31/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Big bang is not BS but I already know how flawed your logic is so that's beside the point.
The point being that there is no such thing as creativity since nothing new is made and everything we "make" is just duplicating something else.
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Can we call art creative if nothing new is truly made? [Re: Sirshovel]
#27119594 - 01/01/21 02:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sirshovel said:...The point being that there is no such thing as creativity since nothing new is made and everything we "make" is just duplicating something else.
. One may wonder if you are secretly suffering from the illusion that you just said something new, surprising, creative, or particularly relevant, or are just addicted to trolling, all those who think you are actually open to some sort of meaningful discussion, not that it matters; its slightly amusing in any case, to see how long this thread can go on, going nowhere. So far we have about 1 week, of you maintaining your position fiercely against all challengers, congratulations !
. Of course this being now over a year of covid-19, as we go into 2021, many are probably rather bored, so you don't want to take too much credit, for all the fish you catch, in your net. . Many probably really don't give much of a shit one way or the other, about the supposed issue. Posting is perhaps just a way to chat a little without risking much. And most would apparently rather post in an existing thread than start a new one, as anyone can easily see.
. Some people are sweet, some troll, and some seem to enjoy seeing how many people they can offend at once, from time to time and a few actually have something interesting to say; and so on... what a strange mix !
Edited by laughingdog (01/01/21 03:16 AM)
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