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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: curious.mind]
#26982811 - 10/13/20 06:26 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I say do whatever it takes for you to be free from addiction, whether it's meditation or methadone, it doesn't matter how you reach your goal. We are all different, requiring different methods.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#27072243 - 12/04/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I already posted this in anon forum, but maybe here would be a better place for it?
Oxycodone.
It's been months now. In the early days, it was a very off/on relationship. We'd spend a week or two together, then want to spend time apart, a few days of feeling weird and then a week of feeling a little off. Then after a week or two apart we'd do it all over again.
But now it's got bad. Now it's been months without a break, apart from the two times I've tried to walk away, which have resulted in withdrawal symptoms so horrific that after a couple of days I cave in and go back to them just to feel some relief from the symptoms. The sleepness nights full of restless legs, shivers and sweating, lack of energy and horrible anxiety fueled thoughts.. it really wears a guy down.
So they say that the third time is the charm. Apparently. Which means that the third time I'm going to make sure that I have everything set up to ensure I don't fail and don't go back to them. I think the ingredients are:
Determination to never go back to them Time off work Benzo's (diazepam) Kratom (white vein) Tramadol (slow release) L-Theanine (extract) Valerian root (extract)
I haven't had any of this to hand the last two times I made a serious go at quitting, so I'm hoping this will be enough to see me through.
Still, I want to hear advice from people here who have gone through quitting opiates before. I didn't know anything could have such a terrible comedown/withdrawal as these things. It's blown me away how bad WD makes you feel. It's like you wish you had never been born. So much worse than quitting heroin half a lifetime ago.
If anyone has anything to share please do.
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PLURAL
PLUR

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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27072605 - 12/04/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I found heroin withdrawal to be far worse than oxy.
How I kicked my physical dependence on opioids was by IVing cocaine instead, I would just spend all my money on that and there'd be nothing left for opioids lmao.
That was seriously the only way I was ever able to stop on my own.
I would try the time off and benzos and blah blah blah, make it a little bit until I was like fuck this and went and got some heroin.
Good luck buddy. Ever considered a medical detox facility? That's how I actually kicked a few years ago.
-------------------- PLUR
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite


Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27072777 - 12/04/20 11:53 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous #13 said: I already posted this in anon forum, but maybe here would be a better place for it?
Oxycodone.
...
If anyone has anything to share please do.
Benzos seem unnecessary. Stop romanticizing things too, it's not a relationship you're addicted to a chemical.
If you have kratom you wont need it but loperamide is a life saver when you need to not shit your pants. Hot showers, getting emotional over shitty movies, and a little bit of weed helped me have moments of release while sick. Mostly it's just a struggle through exhausting days and sleepless nights.
Work is good as soon as you can manage it. Work sucks but you need to learn boring discipline and may as well get paid. When you're used to instant relief, dealing with stress and being involved with something is necessary to start getting satisfaction from the outside world again.
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13] 1
#27076516 - 12/07/20 02:58 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Anonymous #13 said:
So they say that the third time is the charm. Apparently. Which means that the third time I'm going to make sure that I have everything set up to ensure I don't fail and don't go back to them. I think the ingredients are:
Determination to never go back to them Time off work Benzo's (diazepam) Kratom (white vein) Tramadol (slow release) L-Theanine (extract) Valerian root (extract)
That sounds dangerous - a method to "ensure" you don't fail. I've found that type of intense determination led down the road to anguish. Is it possible you are exaggerating the experience of withdrawal? Long time drug users love to talk about the incredible pain of withdrawal - but it's usually a way to justify using more drugs. Drug users like to make excuses for their behavior - and withdrawal is an easy way to go. The deeper tougher question is - what is the drug replacing in your life? Drugs are always a substitute for an important intimate need.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#27080951 - 12/09/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
Quote:
Anonymous #13 said: I already posted this in anon forum, but maybe here would be a better place for it?
Oxycodone.
...
If anyone has anything to share please do.
Benzos seem unnecessary. Stop romanticizing things too, it's not a relationship you're addicted to a chemical.
If you have kratom you wont need it but loperamide is a life saver when you need to not shit your pants. Hot showers, getting emotional over shitty movies, and a little bit of weed helped me have moments of release while sick. Mostly it's just a struggle through exhausting days and sleepless nights.
Work is good as soon as you can manage it. Work sucks but you need to learn boring discipline and may as well get paid. When you're used to instant relief, dealing with stress and being involved with something is necessary to start getting satisfaction from the outside world again.
I agree, you also must remind yourself during the worst of withdrawal that it will pass. The worst of withdrawal from short acting opiates is the first 10 days, in my experience by day 14 things start returning to baseline but your not out of the woods because most people convince themselves that they can control it the next time and that's a lie!!! Stay busy, I know that is easier said than done but exerting yourself will help with sleep, eat fresh fruits and vegetables, fish and chicken, also add a multivitamin everyday. When we are in active addiction we usually are not getting the nutrients and more importantly, hydration that we really need everyday. Dehydration is a huge problem and will exacerbate withdrawal symptoms so I suggest some pedialyte or similar product to help keep your electrolytes up. Ensure or a similar nutritional supplement is also helpful. This is based on my personal experience and that alone, I make no guarantees or promises but I will say that it's going to suck no matter how you do it.
I strongly recommend you try without using long acting opiates like methadone and the Buprinophrine combinations available because they come with their own challenges and withdrawal from them is much much longer, but if you just can't stay clean I say do whatever you have to do to get hold of it. There's no magic bullet for opiate dependence, you will have to have some measure of discomfort. It makes me think of yen-yang.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Doc9151]
#27088792 - 12/14/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thanks for all the advice people. Tried and failed again this weekend. I'm going to try again with Suboxone, can someone please tell me how to use it? I plan on a really short run, just hoping that it will lessen the living hell that is the withdrawal symptoms.
Any help so appreciated. I'm feeling so lost and desperate right now.
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27089040 - 12/14/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Take some time off work for sure.
Don't take the subs until you are FULLY INTO WITHDRAWAL. Usually about 24 hours in at least. It can lead to precipitated withdrawal which is much much worse than normal.
Don't take more subs than you need. You will have the urge to chase 'normal' but you won't get normal. You don't want to substitute one habit for another. Depending on the length and severity of habit, and your willpower, you can taper off with subs in a week or two.
Good luck man! Stay strong! It sucks but its worth it.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: mndfreeze]
#27089051 - 12/14/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Forgot to add, you want to still feel a little terrible on the sub since you are trying to get off quick. If you are feeling anything other than at least slightly shitty you are taking too much and just extending the amount of time you will need to taper. You just need to feel less than full withdrawal shitty and step down.
If you fail again I highly recommend checking yourself into a rehab or clinic of some sort that can help you manage. Some people need longer and trying to rush it just makes it worse. Sometimes having a support staff and scheduled dosing with rules is all the change one needs.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: mndfreeze]
#27089539 - 12/14/20 08:43 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you very much for your kindness and your help mndfreeze. The suboxone I have are 8/2 mg strips authentic USA pharmacy supplied. They contain 8mg Buprenorphine/2mg Naloxone.
From what you say 24 hours after last Oxy, switch to subs for a week, ease the horrible withdrawal symptoms from the oxy, then taper the subs over another week?
I'm not asking for dosage advice, but does anyone know what a qualified doctor would say? Like how many subs a day? Two or three times?
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PLURAL
PLUR

Registered: 01/16/14
Posts: 31,320
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27089736 - 12/15/20 12:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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How many mg of oxy do you do a day?
I do believe that it's roughly 1mg of bupe=10mg oxy.
So if I were trying to come off of oxy using bupe I'd start out with a whole one and take an 1/8th less everyday.
I'd probably divide it up into two doses a day, one in morning one in evening.
That would make it easier, although I wouldn't feel great, I'd probably take 1mg a day for a few extra days.
-------------------- PLUR
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: PLURAL]
#27089776 - 12/15/20 01:46 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So average 50mg oxy/day... maybe 4mg bupe to start? Then 3mg next day? Then 2mg?
Not sure how to divide these subs up yet but hopefully it will become clear.
I know that I need to still feel the suffering from WD when on subs. Just need to not be so sick I can't function at all.
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27099990 - 12/20/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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With Christmas right around the corner just wanted to remind everyone here that you are strong ass bitches and to keep up the good fight!
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: PLURAL]
#27112242 - 12/28/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
PLURAL said: How many mg of oxy do you do a day?
I do believe that it's roughly 1mg of bupe=10mg oxy.
So if I were trying to come off of oxy using bupe I'd start out with a whole one and take an 1/8th less everyday.
I'd probably divide it up into two doses a day, one in morning one in evening.
That would make it easier, although I wouldn't feel great, I'd probably take 1mg a day for a few extra days.
So I tried this. Waited 40 hours from last dose until WD was in full swing and the suboxone didn't do a damn thing to take the edge off.
Took two strips at 8mg bupe/2mg naloxone per strip.
WTF am I doing wrong? Is there nothing that will help take the edge off WD's???
As it stands, I went back to the Oxy's again as I needed to be functional this week.
So fucking frustrated right now. I'm going out of my mind with how many times I've tried and failed to quit this shit.
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PLURAL
PLUR

Registered: 01/16/14
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27113023 - 12/28/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Subs always seemed to work decent for me, I mean whenever I was like a gram or two a day heroin user they like just barely took the edge off, they helped though idk.
They're probably not gonna get you where you want to be unless you're opiate naive. Think that's kind of the point.
Have you considered talking to a doctor?
-------------------- PLUR
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27113221 - 12/28/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Different opiates attach to receptors in different ways. If you are always using Oxy, then switching to Bupe/subs will never feel 'the same'. You have to adjust to it. It's going to take some time and there is going to be some WD effects no matter what. The point is to have LESS wd effects than you would if you were cold turkey.
Your going to fiend for oxy still even with the bupe because its not tickling all your receptors the same exact way your body is used to. Over time your body will adjust to the subs. Should only be a 2 or 3 days generally.
16mg of bupe is pretty high. You definitely should not be taking that much for the oxy doses you normally do.
Would highly recommend seeing a doctor about it. I know it's not ideal but you either need to take some time away from work to make the switch, power through it, or get some additional resource assistance if you really want to stop going back to the oxy.
Much love. Stay strong.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: mndfreeze]
#27113581 - 12/29/20 06:36 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thanks guys. Unfortunately seeing a doctor is not an option, however I have two weeks booked off from work starting next month so that should give me a chance to just rough this thing out.
What surprised me though was that there was literally NO change whatsoever in the WD effects as compared to cold turkey. This has me wondering if it might be beneficial to switch to something like smoking black tar for a week before then switching over to the suboxone?
Would that perhaps make for a slightly easier WD?
Any other ideas?
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mndfreeze 
Shroomery Secret Service




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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27113586 - 12/29/20 06:45 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thats a bad idea. You prob need to step your oxy dose down. Switching to heroin or morphine isn't going to solve your switching problem. The same missing receptor issue is going to be there.
Why don't you cut your oxy dose in half. That should be more than enough to keep you from being sick. Also with subs LESS is more usually. That naloxone thats in it is designed to block other opioids and only let the bupe through. In my experience during the transition period taking too much makes the shitty feeling worse.
Cut down your dose, be a little lethargic and shitty until you have that 2 week block, then cold turkey and switch to subs.
https://www.careinnovations.org/wp-content/uploads/How-to-Start-Buprenorphine-naloxone-at-Home-Suboxone-Induction.pdf
You are probably taking too much oxy still is my guess.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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Anonymous #13
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: mndfreeze]
#27113599 - 12/29/20 06:53 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Ok thanks for the advice mndfreeze. That was my other idea; to just taper taper taper right the way down with the oxys.
I'll report back once I've managed to taper down to 1 or 2 a day. Hopefully that'll keep things manageable next time around.
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mndfreeze 
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Re: Opiate addicts support group (moved) [Re: Anonymous #13]
#27113606 - 12/29/20 06:59 AM (3 years, 30 days ago) |
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Oxy being a short acting opioid it will work better to keep you feeling semi-ok if you half your dose from before, but instead of taking the half once or twice a day, split it across 4. Generally the amount you need to not be sick is FAR lower than 'feeling good but not actually high' if that makes any sense.
No matter what yer gunna feel shitty, even with subs when you go to quit the subs you will feet shitty. The taper and subs is only to get you past the insane muscle spasms, puking, restless legs, cold sweats kinda stuff. Once you go completely off you're going to have a few days to a week of lethargy, depression, anxiety, etc. Your body needs time to balance back out again.
Continue the fight but don't be too much of a man and avoid professional help. There are plenty of walk in clinics for longer term maint if that's the route you need to go, and short term places. If money isn't much of an issue, there are even places that will pretty much put you under for a few days to get you past the worth of the withdrawal. They tend to cost a pretty penny though.
-------------------- Nothing says love like grannies prolapsed anus! quote]Urb said: I know... Its fucked up... Ill fix it minyana..[/quote]
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