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Kdeezy



Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis?
#27109842 - 12/26/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Habitat: Growing out of recently disturbed mud and grass. Looks like the majority of the fruits were growing out of the track of truck tire in the mud.
Gills: As pictured. Dark brown.
Stem: Thin, easily breakable. Not woody. Don't break cleanly. Not chalky.
Cap: Convex, some slightly umbonate.
Spore print color: Black.
Bruising: No noticeable bruising.
Other information: Found these in Windsor, CA today. They caught my eye because they look similar to the Panaeolus cinctulus I've researched online. Despite that, I know that it wouldn't really make sense for them to be cinctulus because the average daytime temps around here have been in the high fifties to low sixties (Fahrenheit) and my understanding is that cinctulus fruit in our warmer months around here. It rained heavily yesterday. Could these be another species of Panaeolus? Or possibly Psathyrella corrugis? Also, are any species of Panaeolus poisonous? Many thanks in advance, and my apologies for posting so many requests recently, I hope that isn't a taboo!


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mcasa
ExplORer


Registered: 09/19/20
Posts: 86
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Kdeezy]
#27109904 - 12/27/20 12:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Panaeolus foenisecii
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Kdeezy]
#27109912 - 12/27/20 12:28 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Definitely Psathyrella, perhaps somewhere around Psathyrella prona. Needs microscopy and/or sequencing to get to species. I don't think it is P. corrugis.
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RenegadeMycologist
On the case



Registered: 12/05/20
Posts: 3,817
Loc: Serbia
Last seen: 11 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27110001 - 12/27/20 03:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah it's Psathyrella.
To answer your question, there are no toxic Panaeolus species.
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l e a r n i n g t h i n g s
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Kdeezy



Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27110900 - 12/27/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: Definitely Psathyrella, perhaps somewhere around Psathyrella prona. Needs microscopy and/or sequencing to get to species. I don't think it is P. corrugis.
Thanks Alan! I was hoping for your input. I began realizing it was a Psathyrella when I realized most of the Panaeolus spp have higher fruiting temps. Psathyrella corrugis was my best guess based on visual comparisons to black spore printed mushrooms i looked at on Mykoweb, but I'm an absolute noob.
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Kdeezy



Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Quote:
RenegadeMycologist said: Yeah it's Psathyrella.
To answer your question, there are no toxic Panaeolus species.
Thanks Renegade, that gives me more confidence to hunt P. cinctulus when they start fruiting around here in the warmer months.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Kdeezy]
#27110977 - 12/27/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think the fruiting temperatures stated for some Panaeolus species should be revisited, I've found Panaeolus cyanescens fruiting when its 50°f, I think it depends on the region and environmental conditions with different regions having different fruiting temperatures. My observations have been that colonization takes place at higher temperatures than fruiting in the wild, fruiting always takes place during cooler temperatures, as low as the high 50's and up to the mid 80's Fahrenheit where as colonization seems to stop when temperatures drop into the mid to low 50's and below as well as when temperatures reach the high 80's into the 90's. I find that most, if not all of the dung loving Panaeolus disappear the higher temperatures rise, especially over 85°f. This is based solely on my observations and nothing else.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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MentalPariah
Pariah of my mind


Registered: 03/18/18
Posts: 3,903
Last seen: 1 month, 13 days
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Doc9151]
#27111073 - 12/27/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: I think the fruiting temperatures stated for some Panaeolus species should be revisited, I've found Panaeolus cyanescens fruiting when its 50°f, I think it depends on the region and environmental conditions with different regions having different fruiting temperatures. My observations have been that colonization takes place at higher temperatures than fruiting in the wild, fruiting always takes place during cooler temperatures, as low as the high 50's and up to the mid 80's Fahrenheit where as colonization seems to stop when temperatures drop into the mid to low 50's and below as well as when temperatures reach the high 80's into the 90's. I find that most, if not all of the dung loving Panaeolus disappear the higher temperatures rise, especially over 85°f. This is based solely on my observations and nothing else.
This is what I've observed too doc. Up here in north ga I have a cyan patch that has fruited all the way to hard freeze. I seem to have the best luck with both cubensis and cyans between 65-45°f night time temps
-------------------- Whoever appeals to the law against his Fellow man is either a fool or a coward Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both For a wounded man shall say to his assailant If I live I will kill you, if I die you are forgiven Such is the rule of honor
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Kdeezy



Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Sonoma County, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: MentalPariah]
#27111166 - 12/27/20 06:44 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Doc9151 said: I think the fruiting temperatures stated for some Panaeolus species should be revisited, I've found Panaeolus cyanescens fruiting when its 50°f, I think it depends on the region and environmental conditions with different regions having different fruiting temperatures. My observations have been that colonization takes place at higher temperatures than fruiting in the wild, fruiting always takes place during cooler temperatures, as low as the high 50's and up to the mid 80's Fahrenheit where as colonization seems to stop when temperatures drop into the mid to low 50's and below as well as when temperatures reach the high 80's into the 90's. I find that most, if not all of the dung loving Panaeolus disappear the higher temperatures rise, especially over 85°f. This is based solely on my observations and nothing else.
Quote:
MentalPariah said:
This is what I've observed too doc. Up here in north ga I have a cyan patch that has fruited all the way to hard freeze. I seem to have the best luck with both cubensis and cyans between 65-45°f night time temps
Forgive my ignorance about the fruiting temp generalization I made in my post to Alan.....I was basing my assumptions off of the fact that almost all the iNaturalist observations I saw of P. cinctulus in my area (the San francisco bay area) are during the spring-summer months, when daytime temps average in the 70s-90s depending on the microclimate. I'm a total novice at identification, knowing the fruiting seasons and conditions, etc. of the species in my area. Many thanks for further educating me
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Kdeezy]
#27111277 - 12/27/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's all good, you brought up a good discussion point because the literature states something outside of what I actually observe in the field.
--------------------
  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,311
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Kdeezy]
#27113510 - 12/29/20 05:14 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kdeezy said: Forgive my ignorance about the fruiting temp generalization I made in my post to Alan.....I was basing my assumptions off of the fact that almost all the iNaturalist observations I saw of P. cinctulus in my area (the San francisco bay area) are during the spring-summer months, when daytime temps average in the 70s-90s depending on the microclimate. I'm a total novice at identification, knowing the fruiting seasons and conditions, etc. of the species in my area. Many thanks for further educating me 
None of those iNaturalist observations have DNA sequences or good microscopy so we don't really know which species of Panaeolus they observed.
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Possible Panaeolus spp or Psathyrella corrugis? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#27113877 - 12/29/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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You came to right place, we're here to help each other learn and love seeing good mushroom pictures. Post pictures of your observations and we're happy to help you identify them and hopefully answer any questions you may have.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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