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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Metaphysical zombie.
    #27105125 - 12/24/20 01:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

We've all heard of a philosophical zombie, a hypothetical being that does all we do but doesn't have an internal experience of it. Something that feels pain but wouldn't outwardly show it.

I personally think it's a far fetched idea that's too sprawling to be meaningful, that the analogies aren't relatable imo.

I mean zebras feel pain but don't outwardly show it as a survival mechanism to not appear vulnerable to predators. It's difficult to relate this to a human imo.

To the point though, what about a metaphysical zombie?

Some people don't believe in free will.

This is my interpretation,

Philosophically I would add that there are dynamic effects pushing our freedom of choice.

I believe we have free will to do as we please.

However our decisions are refined by our network of societal norms. We may want to do certain things, but we dictate our decisions collectively and this complicates our free will.

It does not however, in my opinion, mean there is no free will, simply because we make decisions based upon our situations.

My opinions aside, there are other views to mine, and I think a metaphysical zombie sums up the views of some people well.

Some believe there is no free will, that there are external, interdimensional, imperceivable, incomprehensible forces that lead to our choices.

Slaves to an extraterrestrial force.

Is there anyone here who might look along the lines of a metaphysical zombie as I've described?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
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Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27105128 - 12/24/20 01:55 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Ever seen someone in the ending throes of a spiritual invocation/possession, homie?


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27105170 - 12/24/20 02:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've had spiritual invocations before, originated through my own flesh and blood.

The enjoyment was there, but no shedding of responsibilities to deities was had, or at least kept.

I have prayed before, and I lost all my responsibilities for a few minutes, and it was terrifying. Sobering, to have something else hold all my responsibilities. A supreme guide. A dear leader.

I've seen people do some weird shit but not sure if it was the ending throes of what you say.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
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Registered: 03/02/15
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27105173 - 12/24/20 02:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I honestly think it comes down to how spiritually/consciously aware/grounded the individual is. I've seen first hand dozens of Ouija board temporary possessions on people that view it as a party game, nothing more, completely unready for what that actually does, lol. I've also seen people have no reaction, whom otherwise have a strong grip on themselves.

I've seen people on ghost hunts get taken over temporarily and lead to certain areas that proved valuable for evidence, etc.

I'm also born and raised from Salem, MA, so I think all this occult shit is just in my blood LOL.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27105177 - 12/24/20 02:48 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I've been to crystal stores looking for minerals and overheard the customers taking to the clerks.

The jasper will boost you energies in the morning and that jade will soothe you in the afternoon.

For my purchase the lady said my rocks had low energies in them and she could revitalise them for me. She put them in a bronze coloured bowl before I had responded and she said she was going to rub a metal rod around the edge of the bowl to cleanse my rocks.

I said it wasn't necessary. She asked if I was sure and I said I was good.

As a casual mineral collector it's difficult to over hear these kinds of conversations and to experience them at these stores.

The deception is palpable, but the minerals are pretty.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Registered: 05/14/17
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27106152 - 12/24/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It’s impressive that someone can manipulate the mind off a seemingly meaningless object and practice.  I stand and applaud loudly


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27106178 - 12/24/20 04:42 PM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I've been to crystal stores looking for minerals and overheard the customers taking to the clerks.

The jasper will boost you energies in the morning and that jade will soothe you in the afternoon.

For my purchase the lady said my rocks had low energies in them and she could revitalise them for me. She put them in a bronze coloured bowl before I had responded and she said she was going to rub a metal rod around the edge of the bowl to cleanse my rocks.

I said it wasn't necessary. She asked if I was sure and I said I was good.

As a casual mineral collector it's difficult to over hear these kinds of conversations and to experience them at these stores.

The deception is palpable, but the minerals are pretty.




I don't know what I believe in that sort of thing, there's definitely a lot of snake oil going around in that territory. But I have met with what I consider to be a genuine psychic and that person gave life to everything around them simply through the interactions and love they show to the seemingly inanimate. So while the premise of it does make sense to me, most don't carry this kind of capability and are just trying to make a buck. That kind of person can give life to a rusty tin bucket or a vegetable, doesn't have to be a crystal or anything. I think it has something to do with the interplay of faith, mind, belief and intention.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27108149 - 12/26/20 01:33 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

No I think you do know what you believe, you said it yourself.

Quote:

But I have met with what I consider to be a genuine psychic




You don't get to have your cake and eat it. Plenty of people are great people, nice people, and plenty of them are money grubbing cold readers hunting the vulnerable. The horror of the issue is just trying to make a buck by selling snake oil.

If I sold a bar of soap telling people it cured cancer and they bought it because they thought it cured cancer I couldn't go around saying it was cool because I was just making a buck.

These monstrous people often tell vulnerable people their ailments can be cured by holding rocks and it's evil under any definition.

I've met plenty of people trying to honestly make a buck with minerals and crystals, yet oh so many charlatans that will curb stomp you the second you blink.

I can give life to a rusty tin bucket with vinegar, and vegetables with water.

To defend a snake oils salesperson in any circumstance is disgraceful imo. Neutrality in this regard is defence too because the offence is known and nothing said, when evil is known and allowed.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27108211 - 12/26/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't defend them and was and am mostly in agreement with you, I just wanted to add something else to it. You can't give life to things with vinegar, that takes love, the same way a talented guitar player might get a lot of technical notes out of his guitar.  Yet it takes a lover to give life to his music. It's in the movement of the universe and the lovers turn the spokes in a better way, giving life to the environment around them.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,369
Last seen: 19 minutes, 32 seconds
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27108269 - 12/26/20 05:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
You can't give life to things with vinegar, that takes love, the same way a talented guitar player might get a lot of technical notes out of his guitar.  Yet it takes a lover to give life to his music. It's in the movement of the universe and the lovers turn the spokes in a better way, giving life to the environment around them.




That's cute, but the practitioner of tantric sex, for example, places emphasis on technical mastery.


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27108271 - 12/26/20 05:41 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Good for them but I contend that technical mastery alone is near a worthless thing. Love is what gives value to things.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27108282 - 12/26/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Good for them but I contend that technical mastery alone is near a worthless thing. Love is what gives value to things.




I dare say a lover of rock music may find little value in classical music.


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27108291 - 12/26/20 06:20 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I'm neither, IME we grow to enoy listening to the things we were brought up around. So for me that's electronic music and hip hop mostly.

But now look here, point in case, Steve Vai vs Jimi Hendrix.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27108337 - 12/26/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Good for them but I contend that technical mastery alone is near a worthless thing...




Determining a common ground between passionate values is hardly a worthless endeavor on it's own imo, even tho I agree that passions can focus life, continuity and purpose.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27108692 - 12/26/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
Good for them but I contend that technical mastery alone is near a worthless thing. Love is what gives value to things.



this is close.
but the word worthless is a bit unloving.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineGrapefruit
Freak in the forest
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27108728 - 12/26/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Well I'm not loving, I don't pretend to be and I'm not about to start faking it now. :shrug: You right though.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Grapefruit]
    #27110098 - 12/27/20 04:40 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I don't know what I believe in that sort of thing, there's definitely a lot of snake oil going around in that territory. But I have met with what I consider to be a genuine psychic and that person gave life to everything around them simply through the interactions and love they show to the seemingly inanimate.




How about you clarify what you believe here, I'll ask the question.

Do you believe that there are genuine psychics?


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27111608 - 12/28/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sudly said:


Do you believe that there are genuine psychics?




Personally I follow Arthur C. Clark's “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” and allow that ignorance of the technicalities can be in play.


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,953
Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #27111682 - 12/28/20 05:04 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I understand the idea behind equivocating radios to magic, but I'd ad to it that any sufficiently advanced technology should be well documented and understood.

And if someone came over to you telling you there were people stuck in a box with instruments and all, would you not feel compelled to let them know it wasn't magic?

Some people find solace or guidance in psychics and mediums when they're grieving loved ones or facing financial or other trauma, but to feed them what they want to hear for excorbadent fees and painting it as genuine connections is a maliced practice imo.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
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Re: Metaphysical zombie. [Re: sudly]
    #27111707 - 12/28/20 05:44 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
I understand the idea behind equivocating radios to magic, but I'd ad to it that any sufficiently advanced technology should be well documented and understood.

And if someone came over to you telling you there were people stuck in a box with instruments and all, would you not feel compelled to let them know it wasn't magic?

Some people find solace or guidance in psychics and mediums when they're grieving loved ones or facing financial or other trauma, but to feed them what they want to hear for excorbadent fees and painting it as genuine connections is a maliced practice imo.




There's profit to be made from the state of ignorance and the sheer magnitude of ignorance defies intervention by critics who succumb eventually to the human tendency to profit from deceit, thus exposing themselves to a judgment of hypocrisy and a collusion with what they hope to remediate.


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