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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108630 - 12/26/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I agree 100%


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108631 - 12/26/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You're thinking it's more likely to be recordings than actual gunfire?  I don't see how you come to that conclusion.  Anyone who's ever actually heard a gun shooting outside of his home can tell the difference instantly unless the motorhome is equipped with a serious subwoofer array.




Such as, the type of subwoofer array required to, say, broadcast a warning that is clearly audible for hundreds of feet in every direction not only in open air, but into nearby buildings, as well? Yeah, I'm thinking that RV was half full of a sad attempt at ANFO and half full of sound equipment.

Quote:

Enlil said:
And that may turn out to be true.  Who knows?  I don't think we have enough information now to know one way or another.  I also think it makes absolutely no difference at this point whether it was recorded or live, since no one was shot.




It is extremely important, as it has direct relevance to the possible human remains found at the scene, as well as the motivation and mental state of the bomber. Was it a suicide bombing on behalf of someone else, or was it a single individual with an escape plan? This also affects the investigative strategy.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27108640 - 12/26/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

Such as, the type of subwoofer array required to, say, broadcast a warning that is clearly audible for hundreds of feet in every direction not only in open air, but into nearby buildings, as well?



No.  A broadcast of speech would take nothing more than a loudspeaker or two much like any ice cream truck would have.  To make a convincing close gunfire, you'd need a ton of bass such that the windows would rattle in the neighborhood.  Two totally different things.

If they're just trying to get attention with a recording, why not play music loudly?  That'll get cops called way faster than gunfire in my neighborhood?  There are myriad choices that would have been way more effective than a few recorded bursts of gunfire.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108650 - 12/26/20 10:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:

It is extremely important, as it has direct relevance to the possible human remains found at the scene, as well as the motivation and mental state of the bomber. Was it a suicide bombing on behalf of someone else, or was it a single individual with an escape plan? This also affects the investigative strategy.



Whether live or recorded, that doesn't tell us whether the bomber was in the neighborhood at the time.  Gunfire (or squibs designed to simulate the sound) can be remotely triggered as easily as a bomb can.

Chances are, the guy driving a motorhome rigged with explosives is going to carry a pistol with him.  It's possible that during that drive, he had second thoughts and wanted to make sure nobody got hurt.  Maybe he decided to blow off some rounds on his way from the scene.  We may or may not ever know.  Gunfire sounds more like a spur of the moment idea than a well thought out plan. 


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Offlinekoods
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Tulipslave]
    #27108658 - 12/26/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Tulipslave said:
Quote:

koods said:
Yet no explanation of what the shots were

Are you drunk?






no, are you?



your quote says this:

koods said:
What I find strange is reports of a significant amount of gun fire in the 20 minutes or so before the explosion, but the police have said nothing about this





the police have stated they were reporting to possible gunfire.  so yes, the police have said something about it.  they are not denying a report of gunfire, thus is in line with the "strange reports" you've heard or seen.



So you don’t know what the gunfire was ether.

OK






you didn't ask what the gunfire was.  you clearly stated, "but the police have said nothing about it" implying they haven't commented on any gunfire.


use your words better.  mean what you say, say what you mean.



Of course they commented on the gunfire. They said they were 911 reports of gunfire. They haven’t said what that gunfire was. Jesus Christ dude


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods] * 1
    #27108660 - 12/26/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's pretty much universally understood what gunfire is.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108663 - 12/26/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:

Such as, the type of subwoofer array required to, say, broadcast a warning that is clearly audible for hundreds of feet in every direction not only in open air, but into nearby buildings, as well?



No.  A broadcast of speech would take nothing more than a loudspeaker or two much like any ice cream truck would have.  To make a convincing close gunfire, you'd need a ton of bass such that the windows would rattle in the neighborhood.  Two totally different things.

If they're just trying to get attention with a recording, why not play music loudly?  That'll get cops called way faster than gunfire in my neighborhood?  There are myriad choices that would have been way more effective than a few recorded bursts of gunfire.




Nobody mentioned windows rattling from the sound of the gunfire. While I do agree, fundamentally, that there is an audible difference between real and recorded gunfire, I don't think there is a single witness on the scene that has dictated that. The lady that described the gunfire as a recording said it was three bursts of automatic gunfire that sounded identical. Now, I've fired a full auto rifle before, and it's very difficult to get identical bursts when you're shooting several bullets per second.

Next, from the video that I saw, that voice was a whole lot louder than an ice cream truck. Ice cream trucks lean heavily on high frequencies for a reason, and that is because they carry even with shitty speakers. That's why you hear the end of the pop goes the weasel tune first. The voice was not high pitched.

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
It is extremely important, as it has direct relevance to the possible human remains found at the scene, as well as the motivation and mental state of the bomber. Was it a suicide bombing on behalf of someone else, or was it a single individual with an escape plan? This also affects the investigative strategy.



Whether live or recorded, that doesn't tell us whether the bomber was in the neighborhood at the time.  Gunfire (or squibs designed to simulate the sound) can be remotely triggered as easily as a bomb can.



No, because there's additional technical skill involved. First off, I don't think that bomb was remotely triggered. Doing so would make the countdown inaccurate, and therefore somewhat useless. Second, it would require rigging up additional pyrotechnics. Again, Occam's Razor. It is much simpler to add gunfire to a recording than to add a squib step, followed by a countdown step, followed by a detonation. I'm fairly certain that this was not an experienced bomber, which means that they were likely pumping adrenaline at a heart rate of 200 BPM the entire time between the RV being parked and the bomb going off, probably while speeding out of Nashville. This is not conducive to a multi-step sequence of remotely triggered events on a schedule.

Again, I don't have complete information.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108668 - 12/26/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I think it's pretty much universally understood what gunfire is.



Not here apparently. Nobody seems to know if there was actual gunfire


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27108674 - 12/26/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Why would you assume full auto?  It could just as easily been a pistol.  People who fire guns develop patterns like anyone else.  If you're going to fire three quick rounds several times, they're going to all sound pretty much the same.  Also, the witness description didn't sound anything like a full-auto situation to me.



Were they pumping adrenaline when they were making the recording?  If not, they sat down and rationally came to the conclusion that recorded gunfire would be more effective than other alternatives in a world where one can hear recorded gunfire from neighbor televisions? 

As to your "remotely triggered in sequence" notion...who cares if it was remotely or on a timer?  The reality is that it takes no more skill to set a timer to play a recording and trigger a bomb than it does to trigger gunfire, play a recording, and then trigger a bomb.

Occam's razor leads us the other way, dude.  What's the simplest explanation for the sound of gunfire?  A gun was fired.  What's more complicated?  A gun was fired somewhere else, recorded, then played back at the proper time.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108678 - 12/26/20 10:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

tulipslave should post one of those articles where the police explain what the gunfire was. Then we will know


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Edited by koods (12/26/20 10:45 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108687 - 12/26/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

If you mean the source of the gunfire sound, I wouldn't expect that for some time.  I would expect this investigation to take some time and for many details to be withheld during the process.


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108694 - 12/26/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

So it could have been a recording. It could have been shots fired in the air. It could have been a shootout. Only tulipslave knows


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108697 - 12/26/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why would you assume full auto?  It could just as easily been a pistol.  People who fire guns develop patterns like anyone else.  If you're going to fire three quick rounds several times, they're going to all sound pretty much the same.


Were they pumping adrenaline when they were making the recording?  If not, they sat down and rationally came to the conclusion that recorded gunfire would be more effective than other alternatives in a world where one can hear recorded gunfire from neighbor televisions? 

As to your "remotely triggered in sequence" notion...who cares if it was remotely or on a timer?  The reality is that it takes no more skill to set a timer to play a recording and trigger a bomb than it does to trigger gunfire, play a recording, and then trigger a bomb.

Occam's razor leads us the other way, dude.  What's the simplest explanation for the sound of gunfire?  A gun was fired.  What's more complicated?  A gun was fired somewhere else, recorded, then played back at the proper time.




My own theory is that the bomber was going for as little lethality as possible so they wouldnt use live rounds. It also sounds like the gunfire noise was repeated after the warning message over and over. If they wanted to get out they wouldnt just stand there bucking off every minute or so. Theyd buck off once for a bit and then run. But yeah this is all speculation


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108698 - 12/26/20 10:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

We can be pretty sure it wasn't a shootout unless it was people shooting at each other who can't call the police for whatever reason.


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108701 - 12/26/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
So it could have been a recording. It could have been shots fired in the air. It could have been a shootout. Only tulipslave knows



it definitely doesnt sound like a shootout.


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108706 - 12/26/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

It could have been two bombers who got into a disagreement about going through with it. Or maybe someone trying to stop the bomber. They did say they’ve found human remains. Maybe the bomber killed someone right before setting his timer.


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108716 - 12/26/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

That's possible.  The witness said that the shooting was in three bursts about 5 minutes apart.  She also said they were way louder than the recording.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: koods]
    #27108775 - 12/26/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Were they pumping adrenaline when they were making the recording?  If not, they sat down and rationally came to the conclusion that recorded gunfire would be more effective than other alternatives in a world where one can hear recorded gunfire from neighbor televisions?




No, they wouldn't be. It's a difference between the planning stage and the execution stage. One can be rehearsed. The other is showtime.

If we are considering neighbor televisions, then why are we not considering the possibility that the warning voice came from a neighbor's television playing some Cold War red scare movie?

Quote:

Enlil said:
As to your "remotely triggered in sequence" notion...who cares if it was remotely or on a timer?  The reality is that it takes no more skill to set a timer to play a recording and trigger a bomb than it does to trigger gunfire, play a recording, and then trigger a bomb.




Triggering gunfire, then playing a recording, then triggering the bomb is more technically complicated than a recording that first plays gunfire, then plays a countdown, then triggers the bomb. It's more moving parts that can go wrong. However, I will concede that this is the fuzziest part of my scenario. Considering my assumption of dumbass's first car bomb, badly planned wiring that happened to work out is a good argument. I don;t think there was a person physically pulling the trigger, but a series of squibs, while less reliable, I could buy.

This whole situation seems dumb from my perspective. If I was spreading terror, I'd wait until NYE and disguise the RV as a beer truck to get into a crowd. If I was targeting the building, I'd put the RV next to a structural support, whether that meant a parking garage or right up against the building near a structural support, disguised as a utility vehicle. Or if I wanted to spend less time thinking and more time exploding, I'd just add more bomb. Again, I'm working from an assumption of ~500lb of badly mixed ANFO, and when you're talking about acquiring ~470lb of fertilizer, doubling that can't be too hard.

Quote:

koods said:
It could have been two bombers who got into a disagreement about going through with it. Or maybe someone trying to stop the bomber. They did say they’ve found human remains. Maybe the bomber killed someone right before setting his timer.




Nah. three bursts, five minutes apart? That's not killing someone. Unless you're killing someone, taking a breather, mutilating their corpse, taking another breather, and mutilating their corpse again. If those are human remains, I'm thinking they were dead before the RV even got to the scene. While I do expect they were someone connected to the bombing (again, supplying either fertilizer or the RV, or both), I'm guessing the body was left in the RV with the assumption that the bomb would destroy the evidence.

Or, of course, suicide bombing. Which doesn't make sense, to me, from the standpoint of announcing the bomb to limit casualties.


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Kryptos]
    #27108783 - 12/26/20 11:27 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

The goal was clearly to not kill anyone with the bomb.  It may have been "terror," but I suspect that within a day or two, we're going to hear from the bomber.  He got people's attention, and now he wants to get a message out.


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Re: So...who bombed Nashville? [Re: Enlil]
    #27108795 - 12/26/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe. It would definitely make things easier.

I don't think so, though. I think the bomb was a failure. Again, I think the target was the AT&T building, and again, from what I've seen, there isn't much past superficial damage. It's like taking credit for C- work.


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